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How violent incel shooters are being created, in part, a thread.

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Young men lookup on line how to be more attractive to sexual partners.  This self help stuff runs your social media algorithm down a rabbit hole.  There is a massive group of self connected content.  You view videos on how to attract women and you are connected to "alpha male" content.  

It starts with innoncent google searches such as "how can I make women like me?" Which points them to videos about self improvement techniques to gain female attention.  You click on enough of those and you are directed to videos and links talking about "the problem with women these days".  These lead to "anti feminism" content.  The natural progression is the algorithms feed you "anti woke" content.  You might stumble upon guys like Ben Shapiro or other like minded "intellectuals".  You start binge watching them.  The algorithms then feed you content where smart sounding men or women convince you that in reality you are the victim, your culture is under threat, nobody has a place for people like you anymore.  This leads eventually to great replacement theory.  From there it is a small jump to stuff like "the jews".  By this point you are indoctrinated and you start seeking to persuade people to understand this great threat you fully believe in.  Hatred becomes rampant.

And it all starts with a young adolescent male wanting to learn how to gain intimacy and connection.

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These algorithmic links have been shown in the profile of many young violent men.  So how do we as a society counter that? Is the answer to create legislation that limits the ways in which social media and search engines target audiences to create revenue?  Based on government discretion?   That seems dangerous to me.  Is it more user oriented fact checks, like Twitter seems to be exploring?  Again, there are huge problems there.

 

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They've been finding stronger links between video game chats and the beginnings of alt-right rabbit holes online. Anyone that's gamed online knows that those chats can be a hellscape, so the connection makes some sense.

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You can't regulate internet content or interaction to create social change through legislation. 

People need to interact with people and not Google, or Siri, or Alexa, or whatever. 

Until people just interact face to face with people to learn from the interaction, socialization does not happen. And yes, incels are just unsocialized people. 

Plenty of kids have a healthy interaction with technology and are socialized. Some are not.

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On 11/21/2022 at 10:01 PM, GoDogs22 said:

They've been finding stronger links between video game chats and the beginnings of alt-right rabbit holes online. Anyone that's gamed online knows that those chats can be a hellscape, so the connection makes some sense.

Those end of match Xbox Live chat rooms during the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare days of 2007 is when boys became men. You needed to have some thick skin to survive in there.

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This is part of it. Part of it unfortunately is how many fundamentalist churches teach young people to hate their bodies. The Georgia massage shooter? Went to a church that taught him his desires were unnatural and sin - and to blame the woman. Colorado Springs? The place is ground central for anti-gay church movements. 

 

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I think another part of it is lack of skepticism in media consumption. It isn't just kids either. Grown adults believe much of what they see or watch online. And once they are a believer, they seek out more content to reinforce their worldview.

We altogether as a species need to do better by questioning what we see, read, watch, or hear. If something seems outrageous, just double check the source before flying off the handle.

The solution is never government. People need to take the time and be responsible for their media consumption. Otherwise they fool themselves.

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On 11/22/2022 at 6:08 AM, CV147 said:

I think another part of it is lack of skepticism in media consumption. It isn't just kids either. Grown adults believe much of what they see or watch online. And once they are a believer, they seek out more content to reinforce their worldview.

We altogether as a species need to do better by questioning what we see, read, watch, or hear. If something seems outrageous, just double check the source before flying off the handle.

The solution is never government. People need to take the time and be responsible for their media consumption. Otherwise they fool themselves.

So, personal responsibility is the answer? Lol.

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On 11/22/2022 at 9:08 AM, CV147 said:

I think another part of it is lack of skepticism in media consumption. It isn't just kids either. Grown adults believe much of what they see or watch online. And once they are a believer, they seek out more content to reinforce their worldview.

We altogether as a species need to do better by questioning what we see, read, watch, or hear. If something seems outrageous, just double check the source before flying off the handle.

The solution is never government. People need to take the time and be responsible for their media consumption. Otherwise they fool themselves.

They need to teach more digital literacy in schools instead of just paying it lip service, teach how to be critical readers and such. 

I agree with your points on this a lot; people think “it’s on the internet, so it must be true”, leads to a lot of bad outcomes. 

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On 11/22/2022 at 6:08 AM, CV147 said:

I think another part of it is lack of skepticism in media consumption. It isn't just kids either. Grown adults believe much of what they see or watch online. And once they are a believer, they seek out more content to reinforce their worldview.

We altogether as a species need to do better by questioning what we see, read, watch, or hear. If something seems outrageous, just double check the source before flying off the handle.

The solution is never government. People need to take the time and be responsible for their media consumption. Otherwise they fool themselves.

We have always done this.  We took everything news reports and government releases have stated.  Where it differs is now the dissenting opinion has as much audience penetration as another.  What compounds it is the outlets intentionally producing articles and posts that get people to stay on their sites, which eventually becomes rabbit holes and echo chambers.  And parents do not appear to have adjusted to this new phenomenon and are not speaking to them about (or reinforcing) these silo sites and the propaganda they push.  Mix that in with post-Columbine tactics of attacking soft targets, and you have a compounded factor of things that have been in our society for quite a while.

 

I agree, government is not the answer.  Parents, neighborhood assets, and cultural/religious assets need to step up.

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On 11/22/2022 at 8:59 AM, MetropolitanCowboy said:

They need to teach more digital literacy in schools instead of just paying it lip service, teach how to be critical readers and such. 

I agree with your points on this a lot; people think “it’s on the internet, so it must be true”, leads to a lot of bad outcomes. 

Digital citizenship became a big push in schools during the prior decade (here and elsewhere).  Out of the game so not sure what the trends are now.

I'll hold to my default position that it's going to take at least a generation to get a decent social filter on the social media era as well as the ongoing post-truth internet battles.  If ever. 
 

 

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On 11/22/2022 at 12:44 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

We have always done this.  We took everything news reports and government releases have stated.  Where it differs is now the dissenting opinion has as much audience penetration as another.  What compounds it is the outlets intentionally producing articles and posts that get people to stay on their sites, which eventually becomes rabbit holes and echo chambers.  And parents do not appear to have adjusted to this new phenomenon and are not speaking to them about (or reinforcing) these silo sites and the propaganda they push.  Mix that in with post-Columbine tactics of attacking soft targets, and you have a compounded factor of things that have been in our society for quite a while.

 

I agree, government is not the answer.  Parents, neighborhood assets, and cultural/religious assets need to step up.

Part of the problem too is that parents buy into things hook, line and sinker, and fall in the not-able-to-distinguish camp.

Not only that, but there’s a lot of uninvolved parents out there save for the occasional helicopter overcompensation moments. 

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Its the algorithm, it always has been. People need to properly understand that internet browsing is like interacting with a desperate used car salesman who is near omniscient. He will pick at your deepest darkest fears and insecurities to earn your business...and he see's everything you look at, everything. So he knows you better than you know yourself, because we all have our ego blinding us at least partially to ourselves. 

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On 11/22/2022 at 8:49 AM, happycamper said:

This is part of it. Part of it unfortunately is how many fundamentalist churches teach young people to hate their bodies. The Georgia massage shooter? Went to a church that taught him his desires were unnatural and sin - and to blame the woman. Colorado Springs? The place is ground central for anti-gay church movements. 

 

A lot of black-and-white depictions of an increasingly (and always has been) grey society. 

So much tribalism these days, especially from threatened (real or perceived) organizations. It’s the whole “You’re with us 100% or else you’re a traitor to the cause” mentality. 

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On 11/22/2022 at 12:46 PM, grandjean87 said:

Digital citizenship became a big push in schools during the prior decade (here and elsewhere).  Out of the game so not sure what the trends are now.

I'll hold to my default position that it's going to take at least a generation to get a decent social filter on the social media era as well as the ongoing post-truth internet battles.  If ever. 
 

 

Did a lot when I taught too, but I always was disappointed with the lack of real options or curriculum to go with it, so I made it up on the fly. Even though I taught HS Business and Computer Apps, I made it a point to incorporate how much bullshit you’d run into out there and showed a lot of strategies to see what/wasn’t reputable.

How much good/bad I did, I can’t answer you.

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On 11/22/2022 at 9:48 AM, MetropolitanCowboy said:

Part of the problem too is that parents buy into things hook, line and sinker, and fall in the not-able-to-distinguish camp.

Not only that, but there’s a lot of uninvolved parents out there save for the occasional helicopter overcompensation moments. 

Not only are parents falling for bunker mentality, they also don't want anyone to suggest being critical on what is consumed.  K-12 needs to start really teaching what is media, who owns it, what are underlying motivations of it and how to reach those goals.  Doing a rhetorical analysis in media as a general elective in college is way too late.  

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On 11/22/2022 at 12:53 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

Not only are parents falling for bunker mentality, they also don't want anyone to suggest being critical on what is consumed.  K-12 needs to start really teaching what is media, who owns it, what are underlying motivations of it and how to reach those goals.  Doing a rhetorical analysis in media as a general elective in college is way too late.  

I agree. They take the whole “I know what’s best for my kids” thing and run with it, even if they live in a bunker with backassward lines of thinking. 

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