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UNLV2001

Moroni blow your horn

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On 11/15/2022 at 10:05 PM, Nevada Convert said:

Dude, the only thing you can tolerate is yourself or someone that’s just like you. I’m sure the Mormons are so impressed with you, they’d like you to lead the way. 

Forget about me for a second. What are your thoughts on these guys becoming more “woke”?

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On 11/15/2022 at 10:06 PM, Nevada Convert said:

Gays being allowed to get married in the Temple will only happen with an SEC invite. 

That's more of a PAC thing than an SEC thing.

But, I got your drift and chuckled.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 11/15/2022 at 10:17 PM, Nevada Convert said:

I care about what the Mormon Church does as much as I care about Warbow wearing his male chastity belt. Dude, I’m not Mormon, it doesn’t affect me in the slight. I have no idea what those words really mean to them or if it’s just lip service. Becoming tolerant of gay people isn’t woke, it’s normal.

Woke involves extremism, but I’m not surprised you can’t distinguish the two. You don’t even know what MAGA is. 

So what’s an example of extremism within woke according to your view?

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On 11/15/2022 at 9:26 PM, utenation said:

So what’s an example of extremism within woke according to your view?

I have no interest in having a serious conversation with you about anything as long as you blatantly lie about me. I’ve stated on the record lots of times what I support in the LGBTQ movement, and what I don’t. 

kat.jpg

 

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On 11/15/2022 at 7:28 PM, Naggsty Butler said:

As someone who follows the LDS very closely, I'm strangely not very surprised about this. I say strangely because it has always seemed like they wouldn't actually do it, but the same time, there has been a big change in rhetoric from the leaders of the church over the last few years.

Has absolutely nothing to do with this I'm sure: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/prop-8-mormons-gay-marriage-shift/

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My guess is that some people gathered in SLC at the LDS HQ with the number crunchers and found that there could be some profit in this decision - This might keep some folks in the fold that might have fled and of course that means some added $$$ 

Meanwhile Mittens issues a statemen of his vote in support 

Image

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On 11/16/2022 at 10:24 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

not sure what point you're trying to make, do you think the church is trying to pretend it doesn't have anything to do with it? Because the article you linked says it does-

Quote

In the five years since the LDS church sent busloads of the faithful to California to canvass neighborhoods, and contributed more than $20 million via its members to support the initiative, it has all but dropped the rope in the public policy tug of war over marriage equality. The change stems from an even more remarkable if somewhat invisible transformation happening within the church, prompted by the ugly fight over Prop. 8 and the ensuing backlash from the flock.

Although the LDS’s prophet hasn’t described a holy revelation directing a revision in church doctrine on same-sex marriage or gay rights in general, the church has shown a rare capacity for introspection and humane cultural change unusual for a large conservative religious organization.

The church had the benefit of sharing similar cultural values with the rest of the world with regards to homosexuality for almost 200 years. It never had to be introspective because there wasn't a lot of pressure to be. People inside and out of the church have been afraid to come out until relatively recently. I remember in the 90's watching a special by one of the major news networks about how being gay was a choice and they interviewed a bunch of former gay people who said that it was all just a choice. That was in the 90's! And it wasn't a Utah network, it was national. So you have people who have been comfortable in their beliefs who are suddenly confronted with the fact that their views are really hurting people. And for an organization who believes that their purpose is to help people find peace and love in Christ, it was a huge black eye.

The article refers to Marlin K. Jensen, who was one of the top leaders in the church-

Quote

In September 2010, the disgruntled church members received a private audience with one of the church’s top officials, Marlin Jensen, who serves as the LDS’s historian. The church members tearfully told Jensen their stories—of being shunned by their families, and the homophobia generated by the Prop. 8 campaign. “We explained that [the church had] pitted father against son, mother against daughter, exactly the opposite of what we stand for,” says Mayne, who attended the meeting.

After listening to them talk, Jensen did something almost unheard of in a church whose strict authoritarian hierarchy is unaccustomed to being challenged from below: He apologized “for the pain that Prop. 8 caused [us],” Mayne recalls, choking up at the memory. It was, he says, a “very meaningful event.”

Marlin K. Jensen, who was Church Historian at the time, is a rarity in the leadership of the church- a Democrat. He led efforts to change how the church handled its history, increasing transparency and access to information.

The leaders of the church are not completely blind to the impact of Prop 8- Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, has a brother who is gay- Tom Christofferson. They are very close, and had many discussions about the policy. You can hear Tom's perspective here- Mormon Land Podcast Episode 1- Tom Christofferson on being Mormon and gay

 

 

I know you aren't a fan of organized religion, and the LDS church is a major one. It and its members have their flaws and have made many mistakes. That's what happens with an organization made up of human beings. There is no perfect organization. Can the church do better? Absolutely. There is still a ton of ignorance in the church. But the best way to fight ignorance is to be patient and communicate. If we don't seek to understand each other, we will never learn to help each other.

"BYU is like a 4-year-long church dance with 20,000 chaperones all waiting for you to forget to shave one morning so they can throw you out." -GeoAg

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On 11/16/2022 at 6:50 PM, robe said:

The Church is full of a bunch of liberal pansies now. Everyone one of my Bishops was a Democrat. 

Whose kingdom are you trying to build- the Kingdom of God? or the Kingdom of the Republican Party?

"BYU is like a 4-year-long church dance with 20,000 chaperones all waiting for you to forget to shave one morning so they can throw you out." -GeoAg

l.jpg

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On 11/16/2022 at 2:20 PM, UNLV2001 said:

My guess is that some people gathered in SLC at the LDS HQ with the number crunchers and found that there could be some profit in this decision - This might keep some folks in the fold that might have fled and of course that means some added $$$ 

Meanwhile Mittens issues a statemen of his vote in support 

Image

Its fun to assume that the people we don't agree with sit in dark rooms thinking of ways to be evil and hurt people. That helps us de-humanize them and make it easier to hate them. That's what conservatives and QAnon nuts do with Democrats, its what liberals do with conservatives, its what everyone does with libertarians, and it is what a lot of people do with organized religion. But it isn't that simple. Organized religion is made up of people- imperfect, but trying their best to do what they think is right. And what they think is right is based on their own perspectives and understanding, which varies from person to person. When they believe things that hurt other people, it is usually because they are ignorant. But hating them won't get rid of the ignorance, it only makes them more ignorant. I used to believe a lot of harmful stuff, and I sure I still do, but I began to listen to people of different backgrounds and perspectives. And I have learned a lot. I have changed a lot. I credit this board for a lot of those changes, including you. I've listened to you for a long time, and I thought you had a lot of important things to say. But you also have a lot of ignorant things to say. This is one of them. You want the Mormon Church to be better? How about engaging with a Mormon and trying to understand why they think the way they do? You don't have to become one, but you could help someone make a change if you just listened.

"BYU is like a 4-year-long church dance with 20,000 chaperones all waiting for you to forget to shave one morning so they can throw you out." -GeoAg

l.jpg

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On 11/16/2022 at 8:54 PM, Naggsty Butler said:

Whose kingdom are you trying to build- the Kingdom of God? or the Kingdom of the Republican Party?

Well the united order seems pretty similar to the Democrat ideals. Probably why we have so many Democrats. I prefer the Republican ideals but I’m a one issue voter anymore especially since the US post office getting pushed into Medicare.

 

I vote who ever the right to life endorses. I would have voted for Harry Reid if I could until he changed his abortion views. 

The Masters 5k road race All American.

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On 11/16/2022 at 3:37 AM, Nevada Convert said:

I have no interest in having a serious conversation with you about anything as long as you blatantly lie about me. I’ve stated on the record lots of times what I support in the LGBTQ movement, and what I don’t. 

Ah.. the famous Convert line. “I won’t just tell you, you have to dig through thousands of my old posts”. 

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On 11/16/2022 at 8:29 PM, IanforHeisman said:

Ah.. the famous Convert line. “I won’t just tell you, you have to dig through thousands of my old posts”. 

On his silly Australian news cast making fun of “woke” in the USA thread, I exposed his true definition of woke. He tried the same thing. “Everything is there for you  to see, just go find it”

So I went and found it. Bad news. Lots of hate filled thoughts. 

Any time someone starts out saying extremism is part of woke, their agenda is very clear and their mind is closed. 
 

Very sad for someone claiming to be King “Centrist”.

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On 11/16/2022 at 7:02 PM, Naggsty Butler said:

Its fun to assume that the people we don't agree with sit in dark rooms thinking of ways to be evil and hurt people. That helps us de-humanize them and make it easier to hate them. That's what conservatives and QAnon nuts do with Democrats, its what liberals do with conservatives, its what everyone does with libertarians, and it is what a lot of people do with organized religion. But it isn't that simple. Organized religion is made up of people- imperfect, but trying their best to do what they think is right. And what they think is right is based on their own perspectives and understanding, which varies from person to person. When they believe things that hurt other people, it is usually because they are ignorant. But hating them won't get rid of the ignorance, it only makes them more ignorant. I used to believe a lot of harmful stuff, and I sure I still do, but I began to listen to people of different backgrounds and perspectives. And I have learned a lot. I have changed a lot. I credit this board for a lot of those changes, including you. I've listened to you for a long time, and I thought you had a lot of important things to say. But you also have a lot of ignorant things to say. This is one of them. You want the Mormon Church to be better? How about engaging with a Mormon and trying to understand why they think the way they do? You don't have to become one, but you could help someone make a change if you just listened.

Nice speech, but i'm guessing $$ came into play somewhere - This is a total 180 turn from where they were a decade ago.

Who knows, maybe Joe, or some epiphany suddenly happened to flip the stance ..........and I really don't give a crap about religion as a whole..................Still think this was as much "business" decision as a moral/ideological 180.......plus like many religions the decision makers aren't exactly youngsters open to new things.

Churches change over time, they evolve with the times but this one was pretty quick ...........How long did it take for the catholic church to come to terms with it's man/boy issues ?!?! 

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On 11/16/2022 at 6:50 PM, robe said:

The Church is full of a bunch of liberal pansies now. Everyone one of my Bishops was a Democrat. 

Mormons weren't all tight assed conservatives - Hell Utah went to LBJ in 1964...........the religious "right" was invited into the republican party by Ronald Reagan -- Old time conservative Barry Goldwater warned about the republican party being hijacked by religious nut jobs 

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