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mugtang

What if Putin uses nuclear weapons?

Putin uses a tactical nuke In Ukraine  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. What is our response

    • Nuclear strike against Russia
    • Nuclear strike against Russian forces in Ukraine
      0
    • Conventional strikes inside Russia against military targets
    • Deployment of military forces to Ukraine to push out Russia
    • Conventional strikes against Russian forces in Ukraine
    • More economic sanctions (not sure what is left to sanction)
    • Nothing


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On 9/21/2022 at 8:48 AM, TheSanDiegan said:

I think our response would depend on the context, the target, and the yield.

That’s a good point. If it’s in an open field somewhere and nobody is killed then we probably won’t do anything.  But if he targets Ukrainian forces or a city with it then I could see us doing something.  I imagine it would be a low yield device regardless. Probably 5-10kt. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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On 9/21/2022 at 9:23 AM, Spudfan84 said:

Let’s hope he doesn’t play “F@#$ around and find out”

I hope he doesn’t either.  That could spiral out of control very quickly. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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I think we should give Ukraine any type of conventional weapon they want basically...that cannot be easily tied to us.  And when Russia accuses and threatens us for doing we we just use the Trumpian/Putin playbook of deny, deflect, delay.  "No we didn't...that is fake news put out for political reasons!" "They got those from the Taliban through secondary arms dealers!" Gaslight Putin just like he has been doing to us.  

"We don't interfere in foreign the politics of other nations."

In fact, we should probably start doing this now...but never admit it....we may also want to send some technical advisors to run these weapons for the Ukrainians too.  "Press this button Mr. Ukrainian soldier because we are not part of this war." 

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If there is a humanity left, Putin would go down as the biggest Ass -Hoe on the planet.

Worse than Hitler and Stalin combined.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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Depends.

Tac nuke to hold their "annexed" territory? I think we need to have conventional strikes in Russia and to use conventional forces in Ukraine to push Russia out to 2013 borders. Also humiliate Russian forces (which... we would probably do anyway).  

Nuking Kiev/Kharkhiv? I would like us to refrain from using nuclear weapons against Russia itself, but I think that would require a conventional invasion of Russia itself to depose the entire current governmental structure. Operation Iraqi Freedom type stuff. Make extremely clear that:

1. Nukes against civilian targets are totally unacceptable

2. Any government that uses them has lost international legitimacy

3. The war is 100% "regime change", not conquest. knock out Putin and the Duma and then... leave. 

In this sense, Russia is a lot softer target than China. Russia has ablated its conventional ability away and it seems like they simply would not be able to resist a NATO invasion at this point, considering Poland's 4 modern divisions as well as other US troops. If China nuked, say, Tokyo, I'm not sure we could do anything other than respond with a nuclear strike in kind. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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If as you say, he would do a small yield tactital within Ukraine then we should strike back on Russian forces with convential weapons. Have to let other countries know they can not use nukes without consequences. This opinion stole from the video someone posted in the Ukraine thread of the US general discussing this issue(or maybe somewhere else I read it, can't remember anymore.)

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On 9/21/2022 at 10:54 AM, bsu_alum9 said:

Would be a good opportunity to test out our new Space Force to destroy their GLONASS and spy satellites.

That's interesting.  

Would also like to see a strong cyber response including halting their rail system.

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On 9/21/2022 at 9:42 AM, happycamper said:

Depends.

Tac nuke to hold their "annexed" territory? I think we need to have conventional strikes in Russia and to use conventional forces in Ukraine to push Russia out to 2013 borders. Also humiliate Russian forces (which... we would probably do anyway).  

Nuking Kiev/Kharkhiv? I would like us to refrain from using nuclear weapons against Russia itself, but I think that would require a conventional invasion of Russia itself to depose the entire current governmental structure. Operation Iraqi Freedom type stuff. Make extremely clear that:

1. Nukes against civilian targets are totally unacceptable

2. Any government that uses them has lost international legitimacy

3. The war is 100% "regime change", not conquest. knock out Putin and the Duma and then... leave. 

In this sense, Russia is a lot softer target than China. Russia has ablated its conventional ability away and it seems like they simply would not be able to resist a NATO invasion at this point, considering Poland's 4 modern divisions as well as other US troops. If China nuked, say, Tokyo, I'm not sure we could do anything other than respond with a nuclear strike in kind. 

There are a few issues with invading Russia proper:

1.  It will take months to build up sufficient forces in Europe to invade Russia.  Probably need 750k troops. Obviously they wouldn’t all be American but they would make up the bulk of forces

2. We would likely have to invade through either the Baltics or Ukraine.  We could go through Belarus I suppose.  But if we go through the Baltics then Russians could easily concentrate their defenses. It would be a bloody fight. And there’s not much to stop them from using tactical nukes to slow down our advance.

3. It’s a long way to Moscow assuming they don’t nuke our troops.  While the US military is experts in logistics, that is a heavy lift.

4. The Russian spring.  Let’s say Russia nuked Kiev today and we begin building up an invasion force immediately.  We’re looking at probably December before we could conduct a full scale invasion.  We wouldn’t reach Moscow until March or April probably.  And then we are fighting in the Russian mud and any advance is slowed to a crawl.

5.  Don’t underestimate the Russian will to defend their homeland.  If we invade, regardless of whether or not Russia nukes a city, they will see us as the aggressor and will fight to the last man.

The better option is to conduct aerial strikes on Russian forces in Russia and reduce their capacity to make war.  Establish a no-fly zone over Western Russia and slowly bleed them to death.  Maybe we could get the Chinese to invade the east with the promise that they can annex whatever territory they take in Siberia and exploit the resources there. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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On 9/21/2022 at 1:02 PM, mugtang said:

There are a few issues with invading Russia proper:

1.  It will take months to build up sufficient forces in Europe to invade Russia.  Probably need 750k troops. Obviously they wouldn’t all be American but they would make up the bulk of forces

2. We would likely have to invade through either the Baltics or Ukraine.  We could go through Belarus I suppose.  But if we go through the Baltics then Russians could easily concentrate their defenses. It would be a bloody fight. And there’s not much to stop them from using tactical nukes to slow down our advance.

3. It’s a long way to Moscow assuming they don’t nuke our troops.  While the US military is experts in logistics, that is a heavy lift.

4. The Russian spring.  Let’s say Russia nuked Kiev today and we begin building up an invasion force immediately.  We’re looking at probably December before we could conduct a full scale invasion.  We wouldn’t reach Moscow until March or April probably.  And then we are fighting in the Russian mud and any advance is slowed to a crawl.

5.  Don’t underestimate the Russian will to defend their homeland.  If we invade, regardless of whether or not Russia nukes a city, they will see us as the aggressor and will fight to the last man.

The better option is to conduct aerial strikes on Russian forces in Russia and reduce their capacity to make war.  Establish a no-fly zone over Western Russia and slowly bleed them to death.  Maybe we could get the Chinese to invade the east with the promise that they can annex whatever territory they take in Siberia and exploit the resources there. 

Yeah. it would suck. be a multi year venture, starting in Ukraine.

But the consequences of "if you have nukes you can nuke your neighbors with no consequences" would be worse. so, so much worse. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 9/21/2022 at 11:08 AM, happycamper said:

Yeah. it would suck. be a multi year venture, starting in Ukraine.

But the consequences of "if you have nukes you can nuke your neighbors with no consequences" would be worse. so, so much worse. 

Would destroying the Black Sea fleet, knocking out satellites, and turning off their power grid be enough of a response assuming Russia uses a nuke but not on a population center?

 

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On 9/21/2022 at 1:16 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Would destroying the Black Sea fleet, knocking out satellites, and turning off their power grid be enough of a response assuming Russia uses a nuke but not on a population center?

 

Yeah. Maybe also destroy the Baltic fleet. Although outside the Black Sea fleet, idk how seaworthy Russia's navy really is. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 9/21/2022 at 10:08 AM, happycamper said:

Yeah. it would suck. be a multi year venture, starting in Ukraine.

But the consequences of "if you have nukes you can nuke your neighbors with no consequences" would be worse. so, so much worse. 

I also think Putin would target the US mainland with his ICBMs in that situation. Obviously we would respond in kind and that would be the end of everything we know.  I suppose an alternative is we could give Russia an ultimatum that Putin and his entire government must step down and leave Russia or face military action.  I’m guessing somebody in Russian would find a way to put a bullet in Putin’s head. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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On 9/21/2022 at 10:17 AM, happycamper said:

Yeah. Maybe also destroy the Baltic fleet. Although outside the Black Sea fleet, idk how seaworthy Russia's navy really is. 

It’s not. They are supposedly doing naval exercises with China in the pacific but I doubt that amounts to anything 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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On 9/21/2022 at 11:17 AM, mugtang said:

I also think Putin would target the US mainland with his ICBMs in that situation. Obviously we would respond in kind and that would be the end of everything we know.  I suppose an alternative is we could give Russia an ultimatum that Putin and his entire government must step down and leave Russia or face military action.  I’m guessing somebody in Russian would find a way to put a bullet in Putin’s head. 

Always worth a post

 

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On 9/21/2022 at 1:17 PM, mugtang said:

I also think Putin would target the US mainland with his ICBMs in that situation. Obviously we would respond in kind and that would be the end of everything we know.  I suppose an alternative is we could give Russia an ultimatum that Putin and his entire government must step down and leave Russia or face military action.  I’m guessing somebody in Russian would find a way to put a bullet in Putin’s head. 

 

On 9/21/2022 at 1:22 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Always worth a post

 

I think if we don't unequivocally make sure that every nation knows you can never nuke population centers, then global nuclear war is inevitable. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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