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Jackrabbit

Govt Parenting Interferance

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:39 PM, Cleopatra said:

i didn't say a teacher is required to tell the parent if they are gay or trans, or report on who they are dating

but only they should inform if they change their name on the attendance role and if they change how they used pronouns.  

why wouldn't a parent want to know if their kid us officially using a new name?

why does the teacher get to decide if there is a possible abuse issue unless there is evidence, then they should not keep it a secret but report it 

why is everyone assuming the parents would respond with abuse to their kid being trans?

 

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE ARTICLE IS ABOUT.  Teaching not being forced to inform parents about their kids being trans if they believe doing so would result in the child being harmed.  

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On 9/15/2022 at 1:44 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE ARTICLE IS ABOUT.  Teaching not being forced to inform parents about their kids being trans if they believe doing so would result in the child being harmed.  

the article  is that the teacher is making an assumption that there could be abuse response by a parent so they are justified to keep secrets

why does the teacher have that power?   they don't know the future or even the parents

I am saying they teacher should not withhold information  and get to say they can do so based on there assumption the parent would respond with abuse.  that is taking an action on something that never even happened yet!  how does the teacher read the future!!!

but if the teacher discloses the kid changed therr pronouns and name on the attendance roll and wants to be a girl now in class role, and then the parent is abusive then I think for sure the teacher should report the abuse which actually happened.

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:49 PM, Cleopatra said:

the article  is that the teacher is making an assumption that there could be abuse response by a parent so they are justified to keep secrets

why does the teacher have that power?   they don't know the future or even the parents

I am saying they teacher should not withhold information  and get to say they can do so based on there assumption the parent would respond with abuse.  that is taking an action on something that never even happened yet!  how does the teacher read the future!!!

but if the teacher discloses the kid changed ther prounancs and name on the attendance roll and wants to be a girl now in class role, and then the parent is abusive then I think for sure the teacher should report the abuse which actually happened.

Why should a teacher be obligated to tell the parent?  Why is it their job?  Where is that in their contract?  If a student says something to the effect of "my dad would be furious if he knew I preferred to be called Jane" why should that teacher be forced to tell the parent?

A kids sexual identity and how that related to their relationship with THEIR parents, should be between the kid and the parent.  That simple.  If the kid does not want their parents to know, that is probably for a reason.  

 

 

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On 9/15/2022 at 1:53 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Why should a teacher be obligated to tell the parent?  Why is it their job?  Where is that in their contract?  If a student says something to the effect of "my dad would be furious if he knew I preferred to be called Jane" why should that teacher be forced to tell the parent?

A kids sexual identity and how that related to their relationship with THEIR parents, should be between the kid and the parent.  That simple.  If the kid does not want their parents to know, that is probably for a reason.  

 

because you have to report grades to the parents, and the grades have the official names of the students and information sheets filled out by the students with their student numbers.   if a kid has a different official name (boy name changed to new girl name for example,  on the roll why would that be hidden?

the parents have rights because they are legal guardians of their kids

a student could say my dad will be furious I will get my ass beat if he learns I got a F in science, but the teacher should still tell the parents the kids grade.   you don't get to hide the grade because a kid said that.  students exagerate

if the dad beats the kid then they should call child services and report abuse.

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:57 PM, Cleopatra said:

because you have to report grades to the parents, and the grades have the official names of the students and information sheets filled out by the students with their student numbers.   if a kid has a different official name on the roll why would that be hidden?

the parents have rights because they are legal guardians of their kids

a student could say my dad will be furious I will get my ass beat if he learns I got a F in science, but the teacher should still tell the parents the kids grade.   you don't get to hide the grade because a kid said that.  students exagerate

if the dad beats the kid then they should call child services and report abuse.

 

It is a teachers job to teach, not to mediate family dynamics.  The F relates to their job, a kids sexual identity does not.  If a kid as a different name on the roll, that would NOT be hidden, that would be on their report card, so the issue is moot.

 

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On 9/15/2022 at 4:16 PM, happycamper said:

bro you're siding with parental abuse over educational discretion. you're fetishizing the authority of the parents as something that is somehow different in type than state authority. 

i mean... just doesn't seem real... libertarian

So you believe that a parent who teaches their kids that homosexuality is a sin is abusing their child? Just want to make sure what you meant by that generalization of my position.

Of course a libertarian would side with a parents authority over the state authority. What kind of libertarian would say a parent is equivalent to a government? Parents for millennia raised kids with little to no government.

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On 9/15/2022 at 1:59 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

It is a teachers job to teach, not to mediate family dynamics.  The F relates to their job, a kids sexual identity does not.  If a kid as a different name on the roll, that would NOT be hidden, that would be on their report card, so the issue is moot.

 

ok, we don't disagree

I was saying in instance of the school hiding the new name (boy name changed to a girl name) on the report card to trick the parents

but you are sayaing that it would never be hidden so I don't have a problem with that

 

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On 9/15/2022 at 3:03 PM, Cleopatra said:

ok, we don't disagree

I was saying in instance of the school hiding the new name (boy name changed to a girl name) on the report card to trick the parents

but you are sayaing that it would never be hidden so I don't have a problem with that

 

Ok, I went by PJ all through school, my real name was Paul.  My teachers, friends, coaches all called me PJ.  My report card said Paul.  Is that being "dishonest".  If a teacher uses the preferred name of a trans kid, calling birth named kid Josh "Jill" instead but putting Josh on the report card, would you have a problem with that?  If so, why?

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:07 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Ok, I went by PJ all through school, my real name was Paul.  My teachers, friends, coaches all called me PJ.  My report card said Paul.  Is that being "dishonest".  If a teacher uses the preferred name of a trans kid, calling birth named kid Josh "Jill" instead but putting Josh on the report card, would you have a problem with that?  If so, why?

i'm talking about something different.  I'm not talking about a nickname for a boy situation but a transgender situation and changing  school records.

like if a boy was named Paul and said he is no longer a guy and it is hurt his feelings when the call the roll, and his new name is supposed to be Charlotte and to please change the records so it does not keep happening on the roll and printouts and humiliating him (her)

so if the school changed the offical records to say Charlotte and then that they would not hide that from the parents on the Report card only  because the kid also said his parents would be super angry to find out he had changed his school records to say Charlotte and to please hide it

i don't like the assumption they can hide information because of something that never happened b

 

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On 9/15/2022 at 3:14 PM, Cleopatra said:

i'm talking about something different.  I'm not talking about a nickname for a boy situation but a transgender situation and changing  school records.

like if a boy was named Paul and said he is no longer a guy and it is hurt his feelings when the call the roll, and his new name is supposed to be Charlotte and to please change the records so it does not keep happening on the roll and printouts and humiliating him (her)

so if the school changed the offical records to say Charlotte, that they would not hide that from the parents on the Report card only  because the kid also said his parents would be super angry to find out he had changed his school records to say Charlotte and to please hide it

i don't like the assumption based on a kid saying that they can hide school records.

 

There would not be "official changes in the records" I would think.  Rather, the teachers would just know to use the preferred name of the trans individual during roll call and make a note of it.  There was no "official change" to my name, but all teachers called me PJ.  

You seem to have gone from a "teachers should not be keeping secrets" to "If a school alters the transcript of a student, the parents should know".  Big ole pond of water between those two stances.  

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On 9/15/2022 at 10:39 AM, Cleopatra said:

i didn't say a teacher is required to tell the parent if they are gay or trans, or report on who they are dating

why wouldn't a parent want to know if their kid us officially using a new name?

why does the teacher get to decide if there is a possible abuse issue unless there is evidence, then they should not keep it a secret but report it 

why is everyone assuming the parents would respond with abuse to their kid being trans?

some years 20% or so of my kids asked to go or be called by something other than their given name on the role sheet.

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:19 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

There would not be "official changes in the records" I would think.  Rather, the teachers would just know to use the preferred name of the trans individual during roll call and make a note of it.  There was no "official change" to my name, but all teachers called me PJ.  

You seem to have gone from a "teachers should not be keeping secrets" to "If a school alters the transcript of a student, the parents should know".  Big ole pond of water between those two stances.  

yeah sorry if i was not clear

I am completely against the school telling parents stuff like 2 boys were kissing or your daughter said she is lesbian.   who cares!

but I think for official records and school transcripts it should never be hidden because the kid said his parents would get mad, but if abuse occurs it should be reported.

just want to clarify

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On 9/15/2022 at 3:22 PM, Cleopatra said:

yeah sorry if i was not clear

I am completely against the school telling parents stuff like 2 boys were kissing or your daughter said she is lesbian.   who cares!

but I think for official records and school transcripts it should never be hidden because the kid said his parents would get mad, but if abuse occurs it should be reported.

just want to clarify

Ok thank you for clarifying.  @grandjean87 can maybe clear up a question I have.  Can a school change the name/gender of a students profile at the whim of the student?  

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:22 PM, Cleopatra said:

yeah sorry if i was not clear

I am completely against the school telling parents stuff like 2 boys were kissing or your daughter said she is lesbian.   who cares!

but I think for official records and school transcripts it should never be hidden because the kid said his parents would get mad, but if abuse occurs it should be reported.

just want to clarify

Is any of that actually happening?  Or is this just conjecture?  I wasn't able to change my last name on my transcripts until I changed it on my social security.  There would likely be a different set of issues if official transcripts were allowed to be altered, such as identity fraud.

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On 9/15/2022 at 11:25 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Ok thank you for clarifying.  @grandjean87 can maybe clear up a question I have.  Can a school change the name/gender of a students profile at the whim of the student?  

IN Montana the answer is no.    Only if the student is liberated by a court from their parents can they do that.   Parents do all name/gender changes on official records

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On 9/15/2022 at 3:29 PM, Billings said:

IN Montana the answer is no.    Only if the student is liberated by a court from their parents can they do that.   Parents do all name/gender changes on official records

Thanks, I was almost positive that was the case for most if not every state.  

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:20 PM, Billings said:

some years 20% or so of my kids asked to go or be called by something other than their given name on the role sheet.

I had a friend in jr high who went by a different name in every class…lol

we all thought it was awesome…but it didn’t inspire any of the rest of us to go do the same…nor was there any expectation of the teachers to inform the dudes mom about it either…lol

the encouragement of Orwellian behavior by some on here is troubling…lol

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:26 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

Is any of that actually happening?  Or is this just conjecture?  I wasn't able to change my last name on my transcripts until I changed it on my social security.  There would likely be a different set of issues if official transcripts were allowed to be altered, such as identity fraud.

i only saw this.

Report cards yes.  Transcripts no, I think parents get the report cards.  it is all so new laws

 

https://apnews.com/article/education-north-carolina-f25a6a6c387d9750e50819dd2b8fb9de

 

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On 9/15/2022 at 2:02 PM, CV147 said:

So you believe that a parent who teaches their kids that homosexuality is a sin is abusing their child?

In most cases, yeah, because the parents forget the unconditional love part and end up causing emotional damage.  Their reaction in many cases is more sinful than the behavior they are trying to eliminate.

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On 9/15/2022 at 5:58 PM, bsu_alum9 said:

In most cases, yeah, because the parents forget the unconditional love part and end up causing emotional damage.  Their reaction in many cases is more sinful than the behavior they are trying to eliminate.

I think that explains a lot about the culture war, then, doesn't it?

If you have one side saying religion is child abuse, you can imagine the response to that 

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