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Dogday63

SDSU alleged rapists - civil suit has been filed

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"We have been getting emails and we have heard rumors. They haven't really called it out or anything but just been very vague," said Elisa, a student at SDSU.

Many wish the school would have initiated its own investigation immediately.

"It was being talked about all over campus and I heard mainly how people were not happy with how it was being handled and myself included. I wish action was taken sooner," said senior Lauryn Uhlenberg."

Since it seems pretty much the entire campus knew, the idea that a formal investigation would have tipped off the alleged rapists seems insane.  All you had was a terrified student body and women walking in packs.  Meanwhile Matt was getting chest bumps on the field after every booming punt.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/san-diego-state-students-outraged-over-alleged-off-campus-rape/509-82e21ade-c31d-4652-a91e-d6745aa5b79e

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On 8/26/2022 at 10:56 AM, Old_SD_Dude said:

Lol. Two or three people on a message board represent a “culture.” Using that logic everyone in Fresno wakes up with a San Jose State compulsion (and a fondness for sheep). 

I can confirm that the former is not true. 

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On 8/26/2022 at 3:41 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The vast majority of the time there is a criminal investigation into sexual assault involving students there is a concurring Title IX investigation.  It is not unusual for students to be suspended or expelled prior to any legal action taken.  SDPD screwed this up to the detriment of the victim, the students and the school.  At some point, well before 7 months, SDSU should have known that police departments can +++++ up too and asking them to delay for that long was INSANE.  

If it means gathering sufficient information to properly charge those responsible, then maybe SDPD didn’t eff up. SDPD only recently submitted their findings to the DA, so we’ll shortly find out if the juice was worth the squeeze, but at the very least it sounds like Araiza was unaware of the investigation at the time of the guided call with the victim. Had SDSU immediately reported the incident then the victim may not have had that recording to make her case.

 

I get that Title IX investigations can happen concurrently to criminal investigations, but the success rate of successfully charging the guilty is low enough as it is. I personally don’t feel like SDSU was negligent (imo) by abiding to what SDPD requested from them. We can argue shoulda/coulda/woulda but ultimately it does not appear that SDSU acted in bad faith. I am hopeful that this all results in the guilty parties being charged.

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On 8/26/2022 at 4:23 PM, Someone Else said:

The SDPD put SDSU in a no win situation. 

The LA Times made it sound like a cover up.

Due process is a real thing and one might note that the initial LA Times article did not mention any names.  They likely knew who was being accused since they got their information from the victim.  Why didn't they?  Because they couldn't.

The perps should have the book thrown at them but the process needs to follow the laws of our country or they go free.

 

I think the LA Times put SDSU in a no win situation, not the SDPD.

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On 8/26/2022 at 4:41 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The vast majority of the time there is a criminal investigation into sexual assault involving students there is a concurring Title IX investigation.  It is not unusual for students to be suspended or expelled prior to any legal action taken.  SDPD screwed this up to the detriment of the victim, the students and the school.  At some point, well before 7 months, SDSU should have known that police departments can +++++ up too and asking them to delay for that long was INSANE.  

So the Title IX folks are an administrative body.  You would risk an actual criminal investigation being compromised by administrative actions.  OK.  I'd prefer they take the time to investigate the alleged perps so they can assure nothing compromises the final criminal case.

I suppose they could have made a bunch of statements warning women that if they aren't careful, they could be raped.  I suppose they should be making those same statements in a very aggressive manner anyway.  I'm not seeing anything special that SDSU could do that would make female students safer.  They're don't have the authority to arrest or prosecute on their own.

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On 8/26/2022 at 6:11 PM, SAMO said:

i wouldnt want this guy as my lawyer...lol

We certainly don't know all the particulars, but he can't be feeling great about his case if he's chosen to try it in public as opposed to just in court.  It appears to me that if you're looking for a settlement, this is the way to go.  If you're looking for a conviction there might be better avenues.  I'd rather see the conviction.

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On 8/26/2022 at 6:54 PM, Headbutt said:

So the Title IX folks are an administrative body.  You would risk an actual criminal investigation being compromised by administrative actions.  OK.  I'd prefer they take the time to investigate the alleged perps so they can assure nothing compromises the final criminal case.

I suppose they could have made a bunch of statements warning women that if they aren't careful, they could be raped.  I suppose they should be making those same statements in a very aggressive manner anyway.  I'm not seeing anything special that SDSU could do that would make female students safer.  They're don't have the authority to arrest or prosecute on their own.

I don't think it would risk a criminal investigation whatsoever.  The entire campus was talking about it, a title IX investigation would have been a common occurrence since there were multiple reports from several students.  It would in no way have been a tip off that there was a criminal investigation ongoing as well.  Delay it for month, maybe.  There is no evidence that title IX investigations interfere with criminal ones, if there were it would not be federal law that a title IX investigation is launched immediately if there is a report that happened on campus regardless of any criminal investigation.  That is why most criminal investigations regarding sexual assault involving students happen in concurrence with Title IX ones.  SDSU should have reached out to the SDPD saying we have a terrified campus, women are walking in packs and we need to protect the physical and mental well-being of our student body, we will be starting our own investigation within X days. 

And yeah, alert the campus that there was a report of sexual assault involving students at an off campus party.  

 

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On 8/26/2022 at 10:26 AM, Bob said:

Pretty disgusting shit, SDSU.

It happened off campus. Hey, Air Force Academy isn't immune to this crap either:

 

Quote

Reports of sexual assaults of service academy cadets and midshipmen have risen steadily since 2014. Defense Department officials said Feb. 17 that the record number reported in the most recent academic year could be due to a higher proportion of victims making official reports—something the academies have encouraged. 

But the officials won’t know if that’s what happened in 2020-2021, the year with the most reports ever at 131, until 2023. Meanwhile, the most recent data, from 2018, showed the estimated prevalence of sexual assaults, reported or not, also going up—to “a high point,” in fact, said Nathan W. Galbreath, acting director of the DOD’s Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office.

Of the 131 reports in 2020-2021, 52 were at the Air Force Academy; 46 were at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point; and 33 were at the Naval Academy. Court-martial charges were preferred in 11 of the 131 cases.

 

https://www.airforcemag.com/air-force-academy-cadets-report-most-sexual-assault-among-service-academies-in-2020-2021/

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On 8/26/2022 at 7:00 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I don't think it would risk a criminal investigation whatsoever.  The entire campus was talking about it, a title IX investigation would have been a common occurrence since there were multiple reports from several students.  It would in no way have been a tip off that there was a criminal investigation ongoing as well.  Delay it for month, maybe.  There is no evidence that title IX investigations interfere with criminal ones, if there were it would not be federal law that a title IX investigation is launched immediately if there is a report that happened on campus regardless of any criminal investigation.  That is why most criminal investigations regarding sexual assault involving students happen in concurrence with Title IX ones.  SDSU should have reached out to the SDPD saying we have a terrified campus, women are walking in packs and we need to protect the physical and mental well-being of our student body, we will be starting our own investigation within X days. 

And yeah, alert the campus that there was a report of sexual assault involving students at an off campus party.  

 

Until an attorney makes (and is granted) a motion to suppress certain evidence in the criminal trial because it was misrepresented and somehow made public in an administrative hearing.  Ooops.

From a Title IX standpoint, as I understand it, all those players did was violate a policy.  Title IX doesn't deal in criminal law, they are required to turn that over to law enforcement.  They cooperated fully with the PD in trying to create a prosecutable case.  They did nothing wrong.  Yes, it would be good to warn the campus that a gang rape allegedly occurred off campus (remember that no witnesses were willing to come forward to them), but they also need to routinely remind the campus of all of the off (and on) campus assaults.  That's best for the students, and it also would have probably served to not tip off the perps that they were under investigation.

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On 8/26/2022 at 7:06 PM, Aztec1984 said:

It happened off campus. Hey, Air Force Academy isn't immune to this crap either:

 

 

https://www.airforcemag.com/air-force-academy-cadets-report-most-sexual-assault-among-service-academies-in-2020-2021/

Unfortunately, it happens pretty much everywhere, it just doesn't make the LA Times.  My defense of the process is in no way intended to downplay the seriousness of the crime.  Just that it needs to be handled properly, or a whole lot of bad guys walk away.

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On 8/26/2022 at 5:57 PM, Headbutt said:

We certainly don't know all the particulars, but he can't be feeling great about his case if he's chosen to try it in public as opposed to just in court.  It appears to me that if you're looking for a settlement, this is the way to go.  If you're looking for a conviction there might be better avenues.  I'd rather see the conviction.

its why im not 100% on the 'lets lynch the punt lord' train...lol

something isnt adding up...this dude is like def coked out of his gourd...but hes either a) angling for some huge settlement bc he didnt get them to take the offer he made (bet they wish they had now tho...lol)...or b) hes got some legit personal vendetta against the other side for some reason because holy shit dude is going hard in the paint in this one...lol

idk...its a really +++++ing strange story all the way around...horrible sure...but the whole thing in its totality is really +++++ing bizarre...lol

id way rather see the conviction too...if they did do this...they should go to prison and learn what it feels like to have sex in very uncomfortable places (like the back of a volkswagen...lol)...but were seeing the plaintiff side here going wild in a very...shall we say...odd fashion...lol lets see what the whole thing looks like before we lynch the punt lord...lol

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On 8/26/2022 at 7:12 PM, Headbutt said:

Until an attorney makes (and is granted) a motion to suppress certain evidence in the criminal trial because it was misrepresented and somehow made public in an administrative hearing.  Ooops.

From a Title IX standpoint, as I understand it, all those players did was violate a policy.  Title IX doesn't deal in criminal law, they are required to turn that over to law enforcement.  They cooperated fully with the PD in trying to create a prosecutable case.  They did nothing wrong.  Yes, it would be good to warn the campus that a gang rape allegedly occurred off campus (remember that no witnesses were willing to come forward to them), but they also need to routinely remind the campus of all of the off (and on) campus assaults.  That's best for the students, and it also would have probably served to not tip off the perps that they were under investigation.

Yes, a title IX investigation may have resulted in their expulsion or suspension from campus.  That's the point, making the campus safer.  Yes, they are required to hand over any evidence or information to law enforcement, maybe they do a better job at gathering than the police, making a conviction more likely.  There has been no evidence of title IX investigations making convictions less likely.  That is why it is FEDERAL LAW that they take place immediately if they happen on campus, if these title IX investigations were hindering law enforcement or DA's, that law would not exist.  

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On 8/26/2022 at 7:19 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yes, a title IX investigation may have resulted in their expulsion or suspension from campus.  That's the point, making the campus safer.  Yes, they are required to hand over any evidence or information to law enforcement, maybe they do a better job at gathering than the police, making a conviction more likely.  There has been no evidence of title IX investigations making convictions less likely.  That is why it is FEDERAL LAW that they take place immediately if they happen on campus, if these title IX investigations were hindering law enforcement or DA's, that law would not exist.  

Rrrrrriiiiiight.

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On 8/26/2022 at 1:33 PM, Bob said:

First, it's never good to be associated with such a horrific incident, even tangentially. Secondly, does the occurrence of such an incident suggest there are pervasive toxic cultural problems within the program from the AD all the way down to the players? Not a good look, and thirdly, a mishandling of the situation and possible coverup?Why so long to do an investigation?  At first glance, it seems that SDSU as an institution didn't take this seriously. Terrible.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-06-03/sdsu-san-diego-state-football-players-claim-rape-girl

And I posted that Air Force is the worst of all the service academies when it comes to sexual assaults, Einstein. AFA has just 4,000 students while SDSU has nearly 6 times as many. There will be bad apples in any institution, but I don't think it is warranted to condemn an entire university over the alleged behavior of three students. No responsible and coherent person would do that.

Of the three accused, one has already graduated, one is no longer at the school, and the last may have been suspended from the team. There is this thing in the Bill of Rights called "Due Process." It is kind of an important thing, SDSU complied with the request of SDPD not to investigate on their own so as not to compromise their investigation which appears to have included the alleged victim making calls to the players she is accusing of the assault which were recorded by the SDPD. Once given the go ahead by SDPD, the school has begun their own investigation though they can only "punish" one of the three accused as he may still be a student at SDSU. Not sure if the remaining student was suspended from the team but he was not at practice on Thursday.

To be honest, I think the victim's attorney has destroyed any chance that criminal charges will be filed. He has "poisoned the well" so to speak. He is either incredibly stupid or thinks that a criminal case will hurt his chance to settle his civil case for a decent amount of money.

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On 8/26/2022 at 7:21 PM, Headbutt said:

Rrrrrriiiiiight.

Yeaaaahhhh.  Find me evidence that Title IX investigations make it statistically less likely to get a criminal conviction for sexual assault.  I'll wait.  Here is a fact though, the vast majority of the time there is a criminal investigation regarding sexual assault involving students, there is a concurring Title IX investigation, so if these Title IX investigations are screwing with those, I am sure the evidence will be easy to find.  

 

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On 8/26/2022 at 7:24 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yeaaaahhhh.  Find me evidence that Title IX investigations make it statistically less likely to get a criminal conviction for sexual assault.  I'll wait.  Here is a fact though, the vast majority of the time there is a criminal investigation regarding sexual assault involving students, there is a concurring Title IX investigation, so if these Title IX investigations are screwing with those, I am sure the evidence will be easy to find.  

 

Oh, we're going from "no evidence" to obscure statistics which we both know are not kept.  Got it.  But hey, while we're digging for statistics you claim that there are concurring investigations the vast majority of the time.  First of all, that's meaningless since each case is different, but what the heck.  Can you get me a statistic on how many of those Title IX investigations occurred for an off-campus incident without witnesses or a victim known to the university.

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On 8/26/2022 at 7:31 PM, Headbutt said:

Oh, we're going from "no evidence" to obscure statistics which we both know are not kept.  Got it.  But hey, while we're digging for statistics you claim that there are concurring investigations the vast majority of the time.  First of all, that's meaningless since each case is different, but what the heck.  Can you get me a statistic on how many of those Title IX investigations occurred for an off-campus incident without witnesses or a victim known to the university.

It's the way the law is written.  If there is a sexual assault on campus, which is where the vast majority of sexual assaults involving students happen, there MUST be a title IX investigation.  So any criminal investigation about a sexual assault that happened on campus would occur alongside a title IX investigation.  

 I agree with the below

"Schools should not wait for the conclusion of a criminal investigation or criminal proceeding to begin their own Title IX investigation and, if needed, must take immediate steps to protect the students in the educational setting."

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201104_pg10.html


 

 

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