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halfmanhalfbronco

Carbon, God, Goldilocks and Agnosticism.

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I've mentioned a lot of these principals in many other threads.  We live in a "perfect" universe for us.  The chances of it are beyond astronomically large, the odds would be the equivalent of winning the lottery every week for year, for years on end. 

No matter if you have faith, or are not sure, or are an atheist.  Our existence, our ability to talk silly football and basketball smack, to ponder the nature of our being...is an absolute miracle and should never be taken for granted.  Every breath we take, every hug we make with our parents, kids, friends, never forget it is a miracle if anything could ever be considered one.  That's just math.  

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On 8/14/2022 at 8:28 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I've mentioned a lot of these principals in many other threads.  We live in a "perfect" universe for us.  The chances of it are beyond astronomically large, the odds would be the equivalent of winning the lottery every week for year.  

No matter if you have faith, or are not sure, or are an atheist.  Our existence, our ability to talk silly football and basketball smack, to ponder the nature of our being...is an absolute miracle and should never be taken for granted.  Every breath we take, every hug we make with our parents, kids, friends, never forget it is a miracle if anything could ever be considered one.  That's just math.  

Gotta admit, I had some Police/Puff Daddy vibes going on right there.

Looking at life vs the universe in perspective definitely helps me personally put the day to day worries away. We only have one life, enjoy it.

 

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On 8/14/2022 at 8:43 PM, Stealthlobo said:

Gotta admit, I had some Police/Puff Daddy vibes going on right there.

Looking at life vs the universe in perspective definitely helps me personally put the day to day worries away. We only have one life, enjoy it.

 

Looking at from a point of math and science, the only justification for being an atheist is if you believe in the infinite parallel universe theory.  That for every universe that could support life, there are 100 Quintilian that do not.  That idea alone should be almost spiritual and give great gravity to our everyday actions.  In my humble opinion, we were most likely intelligently designed.  If you believe in infinite universes it is far more likely than not a perfect universe existed before and created ours, with some sort of hyper intelligence we can not begin to fathom (god?) than this was a random accident.  The math says we should not be here.  Yet here we all are.  If a super intelligence created us....well....you can be certain our life does not end at our death.  

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On 8/14/2022 at 4:28 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I've mentioned a lot of these principals in many other threads.  We live in a "perfect" universe for us.  The chances of it are beyond astronomically large, the odds would be the equivalent of winning the lottery every week for year.  

No matter if you have faith, or are not sure, or are an atheist.  Our existence, our ability to talk silly football and basketball smack, to ponder the nature of our being...is an absolute miracle and should never be taken for granted.  Every breath we take, every hug we make with our parents, kids, friends, never forget it is a miracle if anything could ever be considered one.  That's just math.  

Just math.  Given the billions and billions of planets there are many earths out there in the Universe.  Physics would suggest multiple universes would be similar unless there are no "laws" of physics.   I certainly agree with live every day.

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On 8/14/2022 at 8:55 PM, Billings said:

Just math.  Given the billions and billions of planets there are many earths out there in the Universe

And given the mathematical probabilities, none of them should exist.  The math says our universe is near impossible.  It should not have happened, and we have no idea why it did.  We have no idea why the dispersion  of dark matter was so perfect (which the article on the study did not mention)  the mathematical odds of intelligent life from the begging to now are almost not able to be calculated.  Again, you would be more likely to win the lottery every week for a year for years on end.  

 

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On 8/14/2022 at 8:53 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Looking at from a point of math and science, the only justification for being an atheist is if you believe in the infinite parallel universe theory.  That for every universe that could support life, there are 100 Quintilian that do not.  That idea alone should be almost spiritual and give great gravity to our everyday actions.  In my humble opinion, we were most likely intelligently designed.  If you believe in infinite universes it is far more likely than not a perfect universe existed before and created ours, with some sort of hyper intelligence we can not begin to fathom (god?) than this was a random accident.  The math says we should not be here.  Yet here we all are.  If a super intelligence created us....well....you can be certain our life does not end at our death.  

That's a bit much for me ( on my third glass of Pinot). But if we as a species don't even know how our own brains completely work, how can we trust our knowledge of the universe? Especially it's relationship to math as we know it? How much of "reality" are we actually missing due to biological incompetence?

Maybe this supports your argument, but too heavy for me right now lol

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On 8/14/2022 at 5:00 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

And given the mathematical probabilities, none of them should exist.  The math says our universe is near impossible.  It should not have happened, and we have no idea why it did.  We have no idea why the dispersion  of dark matter was so perfect (which the article on the study did not mention)  the mathematical odds of intelligent life from the begging to now are almost not able to be calculated.  Again, you would be more likely to win the lottery every week for a year for years on end.  

 

Maybe.  I would argue we don't know the odds of a universe like ours forming.   Physics may say it is pretty common if we can ever ge to that level of understanding quantum physics.

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On 8/14/2022 at 9:11 PM, Stealthlobo said:

 But if we as a species don't even know how our own brains completely work, how can we trust our knowledge of the universe? E

Ding ding ding my friend.  To not know is the most beautiful part of this strange bird, this human condition.  Everybody, atheist, Mormon, Catholic.  We rely on faith.  All of us.  The more important thing IMHO is we realize the import of our existence.  Math says, there is no +++++ing way in hell we should be here even talking about it.  No way at all.   

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On 8/14/2022 at 9:12 PM, Billings said:

Maybe.  I would argue we don't know the odds of a universe like ours forming.   Physics may say it is pretty common if we can ever ge to that level of understanding quantum physics.

If you want to look at the math, you have to look first at the theory.  Either we live in a greater plane with infinite universes, or in a universe that is infinite, meaning all patterns repeat over time (meaning one universe with infinite you and me).  Only about 20% of cosmologists believe in either infinite universes OR an infinite universe.  Meaning most of the scientific community chooses to deal with some hard questions, limited parallel universes being one.  

Point being, denying the idea of intelligent design is, well, a leap of faith not supported in any meaningful mathematical way.  

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On 8/14/2022 at 9:27 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

If you want to look at the math, you have to look first at the theory.  Either we live in a greater plane with infinite universes, or in a universe that is infinite, meaning all patterns repeat over time (meaning one universe with infinite you and me).  Only about 20% of cosmologists believe in either infinite universes OR an infinite universe.  Meaning most of the scientific community chooses to deal with some hard questions, limited parallel universes being one.  

Point being, denying the idea of intelligent design is, well, a leap of faith not supported in any meaningful mathematical way.  

I think the cosmological arguments for an existential existence (God) are every bit as solid as those for agnosticism and more solid than those which outright reject.  But, I think there are better arguments in love, the transcendent good, true, and beautiful.  There’s more, but I need to delve into those three on a personal level now.  

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On 8/14/2022 at 9:54 PM, grandjean87 said:

I think the cosmological arguments for an existential existence (God) are every bit as solid as those for agnosticism and more solid than those which outright reject.  But, I think there are better arguments in love, the transcendent good, true, and beautiful.  There’s more, but I need to delve into those three on a personal level now.  

I read a paper many years ago which postulates agnosticism being the natural state of man.  Sociological/psychological perspective, no math or science.  Good read, will try and find it.  I have personally found some irony.  As we learn more, we learn just how much we do not know.  While we figured out more secrets to the universe, we have only increased the mystery a thousand fold.  

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It is thought that the moon was created by an enormous collision. For billions of years the most interesting that ever happened was when another cold, lifeless object happened through gravity and the chance of existence, crashed into it. And then one day, in all those billions of years, someone showed up. They left, but others returned temporarily. Existence happened to the moon and its existence in turn facilitated the creation of beings to recognize its existence. It fulfilled its own purpose. It was no longer a cold, dead thing doomed to orbit its progenitor without ever touching it again.

Joe Burrow is god.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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On 8/14/2022 at 10:14 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

It is thought that the moon was created by an enormous collision. For billions of years the most interesting that ever happened was when another cold, lifeless object happened through gravity and the chance of existence, crashed into it. And then one day, in all those billions of years, someone showed up. They left, but others returned temporarily. Existence happened to the moon and its existence in turn facilitated the creation of beings to recognize its existence. It fulfilled its own purpose. It was no longer a cold, dead thing doomed to orbit its progenitor without ever touching it again.

Joe Burrow is god.

Just one unlikely factor in so many more far less likely to make this conversation possible.  

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On 8/14/2022 at 8:53 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Looking at from a point of math and science, the only justification for being an atheist is if you believe in the infinite parallel universe theory.  That for every universe that could support life, there are 100 Quintilian that do not.  That idea alone should be almost spiritual and give great gravity to our everyday actions.  In my humble opinion, we were most likely intelligently designed.  If you believe in infinite universes it is far more likely than not a perfect universe existed before and created ours, with some sort of hyper intelligence we can not begin to fathom (god?) than this was a random accident.  The math says we should not be here.  Yet here we all are.  If a super intelligence created us....well....you can be certain our life does not end at our death.  

Or maybe our understanding of math and science sucks... or maybe there a parallel universes.. or maybe... my head hurts...

 

 

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I think a lot of people who call themselves “atheists” are really just against organized religion. The answer to every question that religion claims to answer is “I don’t know.” Anyone who says otherwise is probably a charlatan. 

If uncertainty bothers you, human existence might not be for you. 

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On 8/14/2022 at 7:43 PM, Stealthlobo said:

Gotta admit, I had some Police/Puff Daddy vibes going on right there.

Looking at life vs the universe in perspective definitely helps me personally put the day to day worries away. We only have one life, enjoy it.

 

Are you sure? 

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On 8/14/2022 at 9:23 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Sorry...but I have an NDA with The Man Upstairs...

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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If we live in a multiverse then it makes sense that the one we happen to be on is just right for us. There are potentially an infinite number of universes with one deficiency or another in its physics. Yet with infinite chances you get a universe that's "just right."

If we don't live in a multiverse then there absolutely is a designer.

I have trouble believing in a multiverse, or that every choice we make creates a new universe. It seems incredibly superfluous and inefficient, and nature is usually very concise and efficient in its processes.

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