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Gonzagafan2021

When will Trumpism end?

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On 8/10/2022 at 11:53 PM, Nevada Convert said:

8:11pm March 17, 2023

Trump very well could lose in the primaries. If he does he will bitch and cry and use all kinds of dirty tricks to fight it though. 

If he goes down in the primaries , he will run as an independent. 

Seriously , a meteor needs to take out Mara Lago. Hopefully while Melania and son are gone. 

 

 

 

 

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On 8/11/2022 at 10:03 AM, SharkTanked said:

I guess I am unclear on what "Trumpism" is.

I posted this a day or so back or both (link at bottom), but it’s a decent take on the Republican Party from the early ‘90s to present. Good interview.

Trumpism is right wing populism driven by grievance du jour. It features rejection of objective truth and disdain for (certain) elites and institutions, and emotionalism over rationalism. It even embraces conspiracies on a level well beyond historical levels.

It is what will be for time to come w/or w/o Trump.  

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/09/1116281152/how-the-republican-party-came-to-embrace-conspiracy-theories-and-denialism

 

 

 

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On 8/10/2022 at 9:50 PM, Gonzagafan2021 said:

Trumpism has been a thing in American politics since 2015 and it hasn't been slowing down ever since. When do you guys think the era of the republican party will end?

It’s been almost a century since Will Rogers’ famous quote about being a Democrat. I don’t expect the Republican Party to go anytime soon. 

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On 8/11/2022 at 12:31 PM, grandjean87 said:

It’s been almost a century since Will Rogers’ famous quote about being a Democrat. I don’t expect the Republican Party to go anytime soon. 

and it fit the whigs a century before him, the ideological and cultural if not organizational ancestor of today's democrats. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 8/11/2022 at 9:26 AM, grandjean87 said:

I posted this a day or so back or both (link at bottom), but it’s a decent take on the Republican Party from the early ‘90s to present. Good interview.

Trumpism is right wing populism driven by grievance du jour. It features rejection of objective truth and disdain for (certain) elites and institutions, and emotionalism over rationalism. It even embraces conspiracies on a level well beyond historical levels.

It is what will be for time to come w/or w/o Trump.  

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/09/1116281152/how-the-republican-party-came-to-embrace-conspiracy-theories-and-denialism

 

 

 

It's a good article.

I see lots of corollaries in today's society with Reconstruction and the Gilded Age.

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On 8/11/2022 at 11:33 AM, SharkTanked said:

It's a good article.

I see lots of corollaries in today's society with Reconstruction and the Gilded Age.

I have mentioned this book a few times and @halfmanhalfbronco has read it and so has another poster (I don't remember exactly whom), but the Gilded Age is referenced in The Upswing as being similar in lack of social cohesion, political polarization, cultural diffusion, and economic inequality (to our current times).  

My other main political read this summer, Revenge of Power, also investigates how the new media has advanced the levels of strategic disinformation.  It is because of this I'm less hopeful or optimistic that we are anywhere near a new "upswing" where we start to become less polarized and  increase our social associations across class and other dividing lines.

I also read that one long form article -- it was posted here in a few places a couple months or so back, but I don't recall the title/author/publication -- that posited there is a growing set of people who are saying "we're tired of ll this stupid sh!t".  The exhausted middle or something like that. I so hope for that and soon, but not counting on it. 

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On 8/11/2022 at 12:06 PM, grandjean87 said:

I have mentioned this book a few times and @halfmanhalfbronco has read it and so has another poster (I don't remember exactly whom), but the Gilded Age is referenced in The Upswing as being similar in lack of social cohesion, political polarization, cultural diffusion, and economic inequality (to our current times).  

My other main political read this summer, Revenge of Power, also investigates how the new media has advanced the levels of strategic disinformation.  It is because of this I'm less hopeful or optimistic that we are anywhere near a new "upswing" where we start to become less polarized and  increase our social associations across class and other dividing lines.

I also read that one long form article -- it was posted here in a few places a couple months or so back, but I don't recall the title/author/publication -- that posited there is a growing set of people who are saying "we're tired of ll this stupid sh!t".  The exhausted middle or something like that. I so hope for that and soon, but not counting on it. 

Ok . I just bought the book on my ipad. 

I'll give thoughts later. 

 

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On 8/11/2022 at 11:06 AM, grandjean87 said:

I have mentioned this book a few times and @halfmanhalfbronco has read it and so has another poster (I don't remember exactly whom), but the Gilded Age is referenced in The Upswing as being similar in lack of social cohesion, political polarization, cultural diffusion, and economic inequality (to our current times).  

My other main political read this summer, Revenge of Power, also investigates how the new media has advanced the levels of strategic disinformation.  It is because of this I'm less hopeful or optimistic that we are anywhere near a new "upswing" where we start to become less polarized and  increase our social associations across class and other dividing lines.

I also read that one long form article -- it was posted here in a few places a couple months or so back, but I don't recall the title/author/publication -- that posited there is a growing set of people who are saying "we're tired of ll this stupid sh!t".  The exhausted middle or something like that. I so hope for that and soon, but not counting on it. 

I'll have to check it out. Gilded Age was always one of the eras I was most interested in. Lots of parallels between the Industrial Revolution and the Information Revolution. Social impacts and political efforts seem similar, though the progressive era still maintained some steam up to 9/11.

The end of the Gilded Age largely came about from a progressive movement that lasted (with some ebbs and flows) all the way up to 9/11 which shocked us into our current conservativism. Not sure how this one ends besides badly. I don't see a new progressive movement coming without some generational sea change. Of course climate change could speed the change up. Maybe. Unlikely.

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On 8/11/2022 at 8:20 AM, bornontheblue said:

Trump very well could lose in the primaries. If he does he will bitch and cry and use all kinds of dirty tricks to fight it though. 

If he goes down in the primaries , he will run as an independent. 

Seriously , a meteor needs to take out Mara Lago. Hopefully while Melania and son are gone. 

I’m not worried about Trump going 3rd party for 5 reasons:

1. The GOP has been smart enough to cover just enough of his legal bills to string him along. 

2. He has enough support to think he has a chance to win the GOP primary.

3. When he realizes he might not, it’ll likely be too late to get on all ballots as an independent. 

4. There could be legal issues that shut down his presidential campaign as a GOP or Indy.

5. He’s physically looking like stroking out is a possibility with the stress he might get prison time. 

kat.jpg

 

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:39 PM, bornontheblue said:

Ok . I just bought the book on my ipad. 

I'll give thoughts later. 

 

Which book? If, The Upswing

Putnam’s prescriptions are progressive, activist government policies.  I’m not in agreement with him on that.  Although, I’m not against additional strategic roles for government nor even additional spendings for certain ones. You will probably disagree even more.  However, iirc, his proposals come at the end so you won’t see them until through the history and social data. 

He does make a clear case, and uses repetitions to do so, for his four strands (economic, political, social, cultural) and their modern histories.  I think that is the benefit of the book.  I didn’t find it great reading in part because I knew much of it beforehand, but I do think it is a very good reference book for understanding where American society is and where it has been in the modern past.  It’s written like a textbook.  General thesis of the four strands followed by investigation of each individually then related matters. 

Probably my favorite long dialogues in recent years have been the ones where the liberal Putnam meets with his ideologically opposite friend, Charles Murray to present and discuss important social matters. Two links from around 2015.  The first covers some of the ground in The Upswing. 


https://youtu.be/u5-

MwZbQdwUhttps://youtu.be/eB5kQ2XDbAg

 

 

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On 8/11/2022 at 8:20 AM, bornontheblue said:

Trump very well could lose in the primaries. If he does he will bitch and cry and use all kinds of dirty tricks to fight it though. 

If he goes down in the primaries , he will run as an independent. 

Seriously , a meteor needs to take out Mara Lago. Hopefully while Melania and son are gone. 

 

 

 

 

It was a meteor controlled by Biden and the FBI. - Tucker Carlson

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:00 PM, grandjean87 said:

Which book? If, The Upswing

Putnam’s prescriptions are progressive, activist government policies.  I’m not in agreement with him on that.  Although, I’m not against additional strategic roles for government nor even additional spendings for certain ones. You will probably disagree even more.  However, iirc, his proposals come at the end so you won’t see them until through the history and social data. 

He does make a clear case, and uses repetitions to do so, for his four strands (economic, political, social, cultural) and their modern histories.  I think that is the benefit of the book.  I didn’t find it great reading in part because I knew much of it beforehand, but I do think it is a very good reference book for understanding where American society is and where it has been in the modern past.  It’s written like a textbook.  General thesis of the four strands followed by investigation of each individually then related matters. 

Probably my favorite long dialogues in recent years have been the ones where the liberal Putnam meets with his ideologically opposite friend, Charles Murray to present and discuss important social matters. Two links from around 2015.  The first covers some of the ground in The Upswing. 


https://youtu.be/u5-

MwZbQdwUhttps://youtu.be/eB5kQ2XDbAg

 

 

Yeah, I got The Upswing. 

I accidentally got the audio version so I guess I will have to drive to the Oregon Coast or something. 

 

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:10 PM, bornontheblue said:

Yeah, I got The Upswing. 

I accidentally got the audio version so I guess I will have to drive to the Oregon Coast or something. 

 

You’ll miss the many visuals (graphs).  They are really helpful.  This screenshot (2015) is similar to some of the intro graphs except it’s not updated to 2020 — trends have continued.  The title of The Upswing refers to the vertical rise of those colored lines from the early 1900s to points in the mid/latter-mid 1900s and the possibilities we could see a reversal of the downtrends and head back up. 

1AA909FE-AD53-4D71-A677-F2BFF9E38D41.png.f5dfc0e6f13d321f20b0cd69f8e86d75.png

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Bugs Bunny to the rescue. 

Cutting Bugs Bunny GIF

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