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CPslograd

Productivity Growth

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This doesn't get talked about enough, but it's the biggest problem I see in the economy. It takes more people to build and deliver less widgets than it used to.  It's not just that the workforce has contracted, it's that it's not as productive as it used to be.

It takes the same amount of people and equipment to build 1300 units a day at the factory that used to build 1700 units a day.  Yes, some of that is supply chain disruption, and Covid callouts.  But that doesn't change the fact that the units per man hour are going down.

You can't have sustainable economic growth with negative productivity numbers.  We have a workforce problem that can't be solved overnight.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-productivity-drops-second-quarter-124335395.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

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On 8/9/2022 at 10:21 AM, CPslograd said:

Yes, some of that is supply chain disruption, and Covid callouts.  But that doesn't change the fact that the units per man hour are going down.

 

Partially a change in behavior/work habits also.

I've spoken with several managers recently who say they are having increased problems with employee distraction than they saw before COIVD/WFH. One recounted a story to me about telling a new hire (a Baby Boomer not a younger person) to put her phone away during work hours only to see it out on her desk face up just a few hours later.

I think people during COVID and WFH lost some work ethic.

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On 8/9/2022 at 1:21 PM, CPslograd said:

This doesn't get talked about enough, but it's the biggest problem I see in the economy. It takes more people to build and deliver less widgets than it used to.  It's not just that the workforce has contracted, it's that it's not as productive as it used to be.

It takes the same amount of people and equipment to build 1300 units a day at the factory that used to build 1700 units a day.  Yes, some of that is supply chain disruption, and Covid callouts.  But that doesn't change the fact that the units per man hour are going down.

You can't have sustainable economic growth with negative productivity numbers.  We have a workforce problem that can't be solved overnight.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-productivity-drops-second-quarter-124335395.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Do you have any ideas for why that would be? Right before I left my last company we were having a hard time getting houses out the door - less were getting done per hour. But the answer there was obvious, there was no prioritization, we were in permanent crunch mode, and the owner responded to each annoyed client by pulling the whole office off one project and shifting to the last person who yelled at him over the phone - sometimes multiple times per day. 

Are people coming in less trained? Younger workforce? Less skilled? 

 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 8/9/2022 at 12:40 PM, happycamper said:

Do you have any ideas for why that would be? Right before I left my last company we were having a hard time getting houses out the door - less were getting done per hour. But the answer there was obvious, there was no prioritization, we were in permanent crunch mode, and the owner responded to each annoyed client by pulling the whole office off one project and shifting to the last person who yelled at him over the phone - sometimes multiple times per day. 

Are people coming in less trained? Younger workforce? Less skilled? 

 

Part of the problem

image.png.1eb95f9dadd60c0e3f16c89126cb29ee.png

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On 8/9/2022 at 11:40 AM, happycamper said:

Do you have any ideas for why that would be? Right before I left my last company we were having a hard time getting houses out the door - less were getting done per hour. But the answer there was obvious, there was no prioritization, we were in permanent crunch mode, and the owner responded to each annoyed client by pulling the whole office off one project and shifting to the last person who yelled at him over the phone - sometimes multiple times per day. 

Are people coming in less trained? Younger workforce? Less skilled? 

 

I have lots of ideas, I just don't know if they are right.  Most of my thoughts are the same ones you mentioned.

Permanent crunch mode is definitely hampering productivity.  I see the same thing you mentioned.

Boomers exiting the workforce more rapidly than normal because of Covid is another culprit.

Young people entering the workforce don't seem prepared.

I think the remote work thing has created serious issues too with inside sales, order entry, service, and shipping dispatch.  It works fine for talented, competent, experienced people in many cases.  But then there is no one for the inexperienced people to learn from or to ask questions.

It's just a wreck.  Never seen anything like it.  It's not just my company or plant either, I see it everywhere.  I think it's gotten to the point where I no longer expect it to snap back.  It seems like everyone has kind of thrown in the towel, and is just waiting for demand to decrease (which it already is) and then they are going to try to fix it.  It's still permanent crunch mode time for now.

 

 

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On 8/10/2022 at 2:29 PM, CPslograd said:

I have lots of ideas, I just don't know if they are right.  Most of my thoughts are the same ones you mentioned.

Permanent crunch mode is definitely hampering productivity.  I see the same thing you mentioned.

Boomers exiting the workforce more rapidly than normal because of Covid is another culprit.

Young people entering the workforce don't seem prepared.

I think the remote work thing has created serious issues too with inside sales, order entry, service, and shipping dispatch.  It works fine for talented, competent, experienced people in many cases.  But then there is no one for the inexperienced people to learn from or to ask questions.

It's just a wreck.  Never seen anything like it.  It's not just my company or plant either, I see it everywhere.  I think it's gotten to the point where I no longer expect it to snap back.  It seems like everyone has kind of thrown in the towel, and is just waiting for demand to decrease (which it already is) and then they are going to try to fix it.  It's still permanent crunch mode time for now.

 

 

Yeah I always wondered about that. I know that once I got established at my last job, I was more productive from home per hour- significantly more productive in a lot of cases. They had used an outside engineer before me so while it was a little nice for me to be in the office, on a month by month basis, it didn't really matter and in fact probably would have been beneficial for me to only come in 2 days a week for total output. 

But... I knew what I was doing and wasn't training anyone. Training for new guys isn't just about answering their questions, showing them what to do, and work assignments, a lot of it is modeling work behavior and what is acceptable - how much to talk to other people, when to come in, to have a cultural feel for when talking goes from friendly to slacking off. I have no idea how to manage that remotely. I talked to an IT/programming person, and according to them, training people remotely worked great - but they used a lot of electronic tools even when they are fully in the office. I think like anything else, remote work is going to be a real useful tool that is great when managed well and can be a pain, or harmful, when used in the wrong situations. 

As a total aside I know I lean left, and I sympathize, or agree, with a lot of leftist critiques. They make sense to me. But holy hell do a lot of them also get whiney about the entire concept of just... working. "Productivity has increased a ton, we could work 35 hours a week and still have a lot more produced than 40 years ago"? yeah. I buy that. but that is a real easy thing to hide behind "I want a comfortable life and not have to produce anything". The increased unemployment and stimmy checks really helped people out when they needed it, but a minor, but not insignificant, subset saw it as the promise of star trek style ubi. don't have to leave the house, don't have to work, can dink around and have enough to eat and not pay rent. which... sure, you can do if there are replicators and bots. but they don't seem to understand the "replicators and bots" in 2020 were other people working. makes me wonder how much that taste made people just... not get stuff done, and the labor market lets them get away with it. anyway. rant over. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 8/10/2022 at 11:29 AM, CPslograd said:

I have lots of ideas, I just don't know if they are right.  Most of my thoughts are the same ones you mentioned.

Permanent crunch mode is definitely hampering productivity.  I see the same thing you mentioned.

Boomers exiting the workforce more rapidly than normal because of Covid is another culprit.

Young people entering the workforce don't seem prepared.

I think the remote work thing has created serious issues too with inside sales, order entry, service, and shipping dispatch.  It works fine for talented, competent, experienced people in many cases.  But then there is no one for the inexperienced people to learn from or to ask questions.

It's just a wreck.  Never seen anything like it.  It's not just my company or plant either, I see it everywhere.  I think it's gotten to the point where I no longer expect it to snap back.  It seems like everyone has kind of thrown in the towel, and is just waiting for demand to decrease (which it already is) and then they are going to try to fix it.  It's still permanent crunch mode time for now.

 

 

Most organizations are terrible at knowledge transfer. We have a great generational shift in the workplace all over. I think that is the bulk of the explanation for lost productivity.

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On 8/10/2022 at 1:10 PM, happycamper said:

Yeah I always wondered about that. I know that once I got established at my last job, I was more productive from home per hour- significantly more productive in a lot of cases. They had used an outside engineer before me so while it was a little nice for me to be in the office, on a month by month basis, it didn't really matter and in fact probably would have been beneficial for me to only come in 2 days a week for total output. 

But... I knew what I was doing and wasn't training anyone. Training for new guys isn't just about answering their questions, showing them what to do, and work assignments, a lot of it is modeling work behavior and what is acceptable - how much to talk to other people, when to come in, to have a cultural feel for when talking goes from friendly to slacking off. I have no idea how to manage that remotely. I talked to an IT/programming person, and according to them, training people remotely worked great - but they used a lot of electronic tools even when they are fully in the office. I think like anything else, remote work is going to be a real useful tool that is great when managed well and can be a pain, or harmful, when used in the wrong situations. 

As a total aside I know I lean left, and I sympathize, or agree, with a lot of leftist critiques. They make sense to me. But holy hell do a lot of them also get whiney about the entire concept of just... working. "Productivity has increased a ton, we could work 35 hours a week and still have a lot more produced than 40 years ago"? yeah. I buy that. but that is a real easy thing to hide behind "I want a comfortable life and not have to produce anything". The increased unemployment and stimmy checks really helped people out when they needed it, but a minor, but not insignificant, subset saw it as the promise of star trek style ubi. don't have to leave the house, don't have to work, can dink around and have enough to eat and not pay rent. which... sure, you can do if there are replicators and bots. but they don't seem to understand the "replicators and bots" in 2020 were other people working. makes me wonder how much that taste made people just... not get stuff done, and the labor market lets them get away with it. anyway. rant over. 

I have always known there was a bit of a conservative inside you crying out for help.

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On 8/10/2022 at 4:01 PM, Jackrabbit said:

I have always known there was a bit of a conservative inside you crying out for help.

I have said it before - I don't like the idea that any one ideology is right or wrong (well... nazis are wrong but you know what I mean) or that they are inherently good or bad. I think that policies have consequences and appropriate times and places. I think that more of the policies the left advances are at least partial solutions to problems that we have now, problems that are a lot bigger than they were 30 years ago. Will those policies cause problems themselves? absolutely. governing is always a balancing act. deregulation was absolutely the right decision when we did it, but on the other hand, so was trust busting when we did it. 

 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-your-gen-z-co-workers-are-quiet-quitting-heres-what-that-means-11660260608?reflink=share_mobilewebshare

 

Not taking your job too seriously has a new name: quiet quitting.

The phrase is generating millions of views on TikTok as some young professionals reject the idea of going above and beyond in their careers, labeling their lesser enthusiasm a form of “quitting.” It isn’t about getting off the company payroll, these employees say. In fact, the idea is to stay on it—but focus your time on the things you do outside of the office.

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On 8/14/2022 at 4:06 PM, toonkee said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-your-gen-z-co-workers-are-quiet-quitting-heres-what-that-means-11660260608?reflink=share_mobilewebshare

 

Not taking your job too seriously has a new name: quiet quitting.

The phrase is generating millions of views on TikTok as some young professionals reject the idea of going above and beyond in their careers, labeling their lesser enthusiasm a form of “quitting.” It isn’t about getting off the company payroll, these employees say. In fact, the idea is to stay on it—but focus your time on the things you do outside of the office.

I'm all about this. I work to live. I DO NOT live to work. I'll work an extra shift to make extra cash to then use to live my life. Travel, eat new foods at new restaurants, see new forms of entertainment, (maybe a new watch...),etc. 

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On 8/9/2022 at 10:21 AM, CPslograd said:

This doesn't get talked about enough, but it's the biggest problem I see in the economy. It takes more people to build and deliver less widgets than it used to.  It's not just that the workforce has contracted, it's that it's not as productive as it used to be.

It takes the same amount of people and equipment to build 1300 units a day at the factory that used to build 1700 units a day.  Yes, some of that is supply chain disruption, and Covid callouts.  But that doesn't change the fact that the units per man hour are going down.

You can't have sustainable economic growth with negative productivity numbers.  We have a workforce problem that can't be solved overnight.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-productivity-drops-second-quarter-124335395.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

It sure would be nice to see productivity and efficiency improve with the Postal Service, IRS, etc., but that’s not ever likely. 

kat.jpg

 

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On 8/14/2022 at 3:39 PM, Stealthlobo said:

I'm all about this. I work to live. I DO NOT live to work. I'll work an extra shift to make extra cash to then use to live my life. Travel, eat new foods at new restaurants, see new forms of entertainment, (maybe a new watch...),etc. 

I’ve always been that way. I could’ve been a supervisor, manager, director and gone up the ladder, but in my line of work, the game that must be played takes too much time working longer hours, time outside of work attending events and pretending to be excited about things I don’t care about that much. Doing music and animal charity is what I really like to do. 

kat.jpg

 

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On 8/14/2022 at 5:45 PM, Nevada Convert said:

I’ve always been that way. I could’ve been a supervisor, manager, director and gone up the ladder, but in my line of work, the game that must be played takes too much time working longer hours, time outside of work attending events and pretending to be excited about things I don’t care about that much. Doing music and animal charity is what I really like to do. 

Same here, I was a manager for a bit and hated it. Harder to get time off, had to take calls and work on logistics stuff on my days off. My time off is just as valuable to me as my paycheck is.

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On 8/14/2022 at 6:06 PM, toonkee said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-your-gen-z-co-workers-are-quiet-quitting-heres-what-that-means-11660260608?reflink=share_mobilewebshare

 

Not taking your job too seriously has a new name: quiet quitting.

The phrase is generating millions of views on TikTok as some young professionals reject the idea of going above and beyond in their careers, labeling their lesser enthusiasm a form of “quitting.” It isn’t about getting off the company payroll, these employees say. In fact, the idea is to stay on it—but focus your time on the things you do outside of the office.

Some people call this "work life balance." 

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On 8/14/2022 at 3:06 PM, toonkee said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-your-gen-z-co-workers-are-quiet-quitting-heres-what-that-means-11660260608?reflink=share_mobilewebshare

 

Not taking your job too seriously has a new name: quiet quitting.

The phrase is generating millions of views on TikTok as some young professionals reject the idea of going above and beyond in their careers, labeling their lesser enthusiasm a form of “quitting.” It isn’t about getting off the company payroll, these employees say. In fact, the idea is to stay on it—but focus your time on the things you do outside of the office.

 

On 8/14/2022 at 3:39 PM, Stealthlobo said:

I'm all about this. I work to live. I DO NOT live to work. I'll work an extra shift to make extra cash to then use to live my life. Travel, eat new foods at new restaurants, see new forms of entertainment, (maybe a new watch...),etc. 

 

On 8/14/2022 at 4:45 PM, Nevada Convert said:

I’ve always been that way. I could’ve been a supervisor, manager, director and gone up the ladder, but in my line of work, the game that must be played takes too much time working longer hours, time outside of work attending events and pretending to be excited about things I don’t care about that much. Doing music and animal charity is what I really like to do. 

 

On 8/14/2022 at 4:59 PM, THEUniversityofNevada said:

Some people call this "work life balance." 

 

We're evolving into Europeans :ph34r:

not a bad thing

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