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UNLV2001

The Orange Clown's Mar-a-lago VISITED by FBI !!!!!!!

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:42 PM, SharkTanked said:

So Obama's lawyers are arguing an illegality? That's the position?

The argument is that records were not available to the people when they should have been. 

Also from the article.  Obama abused the shit out of presidential records.  That's all.  

The de facto long-term secrecy of presidential papers subverts the "right of freely examining public characters and measures” that James Madison, the father of the Constitution, labeled in 1800 as "the only effectual guardian of every other right.” Instead of safeguarding self-government, the Presidential Records Act has become a propellant for windfall profits for ex-politicians.  

Pulitzer Prize-winning historian David Garrow warned, “The absence of a true Obama presidential library will have the effect of discouraging serious and potentially critical research into the Obama presidency.”

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:44 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Also from the article

The Obama Foundation, a private nonprofit organization, will control the official records of his time in office, rather than the National Archives and Records Administration, which administers all other presidential libraries going back to Herbert Hoover. Rather than opening the paper files to the public and researchers, the Obama Foundation will eventually digitize the records.

Which was probably an agreement made between the foundation and NARA. If that is an illegal agreement, Congressional oversight should probably get involved.

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:45 PM, SharkTanked said:

Depends on if they were in NARA control or not. :P

Now if you want to discuss whether NARA is properly equipped to or capable of doing its job, that's a whole other topic. I'd say it functions at a C-/D+ level personally.

FFS, use my log in to read the article lol.  

Hint: No.  

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:47 PM, SharkTanked said:

Which was probably an agreement made between the foundation and NARA. If that is an illegal agreement, Congressional oversight should probably get involved.

The presidential records act is a scam to prevent Americans from knowing how badly they have been misgoverned .  Been that way for a while.

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:45 PM, SharkTanked said:

Depends on if they were in NARA control or not. :P

Now if you want to discuss whether NARA is properly equipped to or capable of doing its job, that's a whole other topic. I'd say it functions at a C-/D+ level personally.

Saw your edit

The Obama Foundation, a private nonprofit organization, will control the official records of his time in office, rather than the National Archives and Records Administration

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:49 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The presidential records act is a scam to prevent Americans from knowing how badly they have been misgoverned .  Been that way for a while.

that's a good point, make it all transparent and online for downloads.

its why I support a full pardon of Jullian Assange.  Release the information freely

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https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/08/11/us/garland-trump-statement-doj

Quote

Attorney General Merrick B. Garland said he had personally approved the decision to seek the warrant and was asking to unseal it because of “substantial public interest.” The former president has until 3 p.m. on Friday to oppose the motion.

 

I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:46 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The argument is that records were not available to the people when they should have been. 

Also from the article.  Obama abused the shit out of presidential records.  That's all.  

The de facto long-term secrecy of presidential papers subverts the "right of freely examining public characters and measures” that James Madison, the father of the Constitution, labeled in 1800 as "the only effectual guardian of every other right.” Instead of safeguarding self-government, the Presidential Records Act has become a propellant for windfall profits for ex-politicians.  

Pulitzer Prize-winning historian David Garrow warned, “The absence of a true Obama presidential library will have the effect of discouraging serious and potentially critical research into the Obama presidency.”

Define "should have been" and "available." 

Does the foundation have policies that prevent access to Obama's records? If so, yes, I agree that is a violation of the Presidential Records Act. I am not aware of those policies.

I guess the complaint is that it took 6 yrs to make these records available under FOIA, which I would assume was spelled out in the agreement with NARA. I would say that is a failure on the part of NARA, but it doesn't mean Obama was breaking the Presidential Records Act if he had an agreement with NARA to proceed with this process.

 

https://www.obama.org/updates/obama-presidential-archives-fact-sheet/

Availability of the Barack Obama Presidential Records

Obama presidential records will become subject to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests on January 20, 2022 and NARA will make presidential records available under the same standards and practices under which NARA has always administered records in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA).

NARA will process and digitize unclassified textual Presidential records under supervision of NARA archival staff on a timeline determined by FOIA requests beginning on January 20, 2022. For more information, visit NARA’s Barack Obama Presidential Library website.

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:49 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The presidential records act is a scam to prevent Americans from knowing how badly they have been misgoverned .  Been that way for a while.

Sounds like you need to write the Congressional Oversight Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs to tell them to start enforcing the Presidential Records Act properly. No more side hustles! 

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:56 PM, SharkTanked said:

I had no idea how gospel the USA Today opinion section had become. :Clapping:

Just a few facts.  Obama delayed the release of information from prior presidents.  The NARA is not, never was and never will be in control of the archives from his presidency as you alluded to.  For years records from his administration were not made available to the public.  We have to take the former presidents word that all non classified material is going to be subject to review, as there is no official oversight, shattering precedent from the time of Hoover. 

Obama not making these records public before signing 60 million in book deals is, well, corrupt.   

But back to the point.  Any raid of Mar-a-Lago to seize these records would have been inappropriate given prior precedent if they were not a national security issue.  MWCboard did not like that HMHB take.  Looks like HMHB was, again, right.  The reason they did so was because those documents were of a national security concern.  

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On 8/11/2022 at 3:01 PM, SharkTanked said:

Sounds like you need to write the Congressional Oversight Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs to tell them to start enforcing the Presidential Records Act properly. No more side hustles! 

Too busy on the Dark Webb looking up how to build dirty bombs with a VPN from Maryland to screw with the NSA for violating our rights clearly laid out in the constitution.  

 

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:02 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Just a few facts.  Obama delayed the release of information from prior presidents.  The NARA is not, never was and never will be in control of the archives from his presidency as you alluded to.  For years records from his administration were not made available to the public.  We have to take the former presidents word that all non classified material is going to be subject to review, as there is no official oversight, shattering precedent from the time of Hoover. 

NARA will process and digitize unclassified textual Presidential records under supervision of NARA archival staff on a timeline determined by FOIA requests beginning on January 20, 2022. For more information, visit NARA’s Barack Obama Presidential Library website.

On 8/11/2022 at 2:02 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Obama not making these records public before signing 60 million in book deals is, well, corrupt.   

the dude your opinion GIF

On 8/11/2022 at 2:02 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

But back to the point.  Any raid of Mar-a-Lago to seize these records would have been inappropriate given prior precedent if they were not a national security issue.  MWCboard did not like that HMHB take.  Looks like HMHB was, again, right.  The reason they did so was because those documents were of a national security concern.  

Great Job Yes GIF by Hollywood Suite

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On 8/11/2022 at 3:05 PM, SharkTanked said:

NARA will process and digitize unclassified textual Presidential records under supervision of NARA archival staff on a timeline determined by FOIA requests beginning on January 20, 2022. For more information, visit NARA’s Barack Obama Presidential Library website.

the dude your opinion GIF

Great Job Yes GIF by Hollywood Suite

 

Do you think a president should be able to make tens of millions writing about his time as president while the records from those times are being purposefully kept from the public by the former president, as was the case with Obama?  Preventing fact checks?  Seems corrupt AF to me.  

Yeah, in a few years we will have access to those records.  Well, the ones the Obama Foundation are allowing the NARA to oversee and review anyways, since they are the sole proprietors of those records, not the NARA.  

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:09 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

Do you think a president should be able to make tens of millions writing about his time as president while the records from those times are being purposefully kept from the public, as was the case with Obama?  Preventing fact checks?  Seems corrupt AF to me.  

Yeah, in a few years we will have access to those records.  Well, the ones the Obama Foundation are allowing the NARA to oversee and review anyways, since they are the sole proprietors of those records, not the NARA.  

Access under NARA began on January 20, 2022.

I don't agree with what was done under NARA with Obama's records. But that does not mean what was done was ILLEGAL, which was the original point that spiraled this discussion. Unethical? Absolutely. But that also is my opinion.

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