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Cleopatra

USC and UCLA are leaving the Pac-12

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On 8/7/2022 at 1:17 PM, Someone Else said:

I can guarantee you it does drive quality.  You can just look at how average GPA and SAT scores have risen over the last 30 years.  As I said, SDSU isn't Stanford but it's much more difficult to get into now than it was in the past.  At no point, did I say it was elite. 

sorry if I'm just jumping in but are you saying athletic performance "drives quality"?

really hard to prove that since almost every university in the country has raised their standards in the last 30 years

I don't believe I'd get into Colorado today and the Buffs certainly haven't been a juggernaut on the gridiron or court

admission requirements have risen because a higher percentage of high school students are applying and attending

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On 8/7/2022 at 2:44 PM, Half-Man is All-Tyrant said:

 

Notre Dame is definitely "big time" & UCLA has been in the recent past.

 

I guess it depends on how you define "...'big time' football program."

#9t - Duke

#9t - Northwestern

#14 - Vandy

#19 - Notre Dame

#20 - UCLA

#22 - Cal

 

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

 

when I said "big time" I meant successful

imo, only Notre Dame would qualify

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42 minutes ago, renoskier said:

sorry if I'm just jumping in but are you saying athletic performance "drives quality"?

really hard to prove that since almost every university in the country has raised their standards in the last 30 years

I don't believe I'd get into Colorado today and the Buffs certainly haven't been a juggernaut on the gridiron or court

admission requirements have risen because a higher percentage of high school students are applying and attending

We were discussing acceptance rates... nothing to do with athletic performance.

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On 8/6/2022 at 7:56 PM, Headbutt said:

No question.  CU doesn't deliver the Denver market and CSU doesn't deliver the Denver market.  We split the leftovers from the pro market.  There is zero added revenue from adding another team in that market.  OTOH, it's a big mistake not to be in that market.  If they lose CU (they won't), they almost have to add CSU.  AFA won't cut it.

You have a brain.  This is a fine surprise. 

150px-Coat_of_arms_of_the_University_of_Houston_System.png

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There has long been a debate on whether to assess incoming freshmen or how graduates achieve. I believe the latter is a better way. Average salaries of graduates, number of graduates that become executives, number of graduates that own their own businesses, and number of graduates that become millionaires. These are real World metrics that indicate how universities and their students perform. It's difficult to manipulate those metrics.

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On 8/7/2022 at 8:05 PM, since1670 said:

There has long been a debate on whether to assess incoming freshmen or how graduates achieve. I believe the latter is a better way. Average salaries of graduates, number of graduates that become executives, number of graduates that own their own businesses, and number of graduates that become millionaires. These are real World metrics that indicate how universities and their students perform. It's difficult to manipulate those metrics.

 

It's also much more difficult to collect that post-graduation data.

 

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On 8/7/2022 at 10:21 PM, Half-Man is All-Tyrant said:

 

It's also much more difficult to collect that post-graduation data.

 

And there are a lot of variables in terms of regionality and undergraduate focus of the school. 

The whole number of millionaires thing is childish.  What's more prestigious some UNR business school graduate who has a net worth of a million dollars selling condos locally, or a graduate of Chicago who goes on to UCSF for a doctorate and works in a lab trying to cure cancer?  The former might make more money ever year, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for the school that can produce the latter.  

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On 8/8/2022 at 9:32 AM, RebelAlliance said:

And there are a lot of variables in terms of regionality and undergraduate focus of the school. 

The whole number of millionaires thing is childish.  What's more prestigious some UNR business school graduate who has a net worth of a million dollars selling condos locally, or a graduate of Chicago who goes on to UCSF for a doctorate and works in a lab trying to cure cancer?  The former might make more money ever year, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for the school that can produce the latter.  

 

Then there is the variable of the graduate's starting point in life. Using your example, did that UNR grad selling condos come from a upper middle class family already in real estate/development or did they come from a family with income below the poverty line?

Social mobility is a data point also missed when quantifying the career performance of a school's graduates.

 

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On 8/8/2022 at 11:47 AM, FresnoFacts said:

 

Then there is the variable of the graduate's starting point in life. Using your example, did that UNR grad selling condos come from a upper middle class family already in real estate/development or did they come from a family with income below the poverty line?

Social mobility is a data point also missed when quantifying the career performance of a school's graduates.

 

I agree. I went to high school with a kid who was the epitome of "born on third base and walked around like he hit a triple."  His father published a daily newspaper, and he had every advantage in life, yet he didn't end up at any of the elite colleges that he thought was certain. He went to Santa Clara, didn't set the world on fire there and ended up at a bottom tier law school.  Yet (shock of all shocks) he gets a partnership track job at the biggest firm in the city (ended up +++++ing that up and almost getting disbarred for ethics violations).

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On 8/8/2022 at 9:47 AM, FresnoFacts said:

 

Then there is the variable of the graduate's starting point in life. Using your example, did that UNR grad selling condos come from a upper middle class family already in real estate/development or did they come from a family with income below the poverty line?

Social mobility is a data point also missed when quantifying the career performance of a school's graduates.

 

I was just going to make that point as well. Basing rankings solely off how graduates achieve, would significantly favor small, private schools where students often come from wealthy backgrounds. Many of these students will have built in opportunities from families/friends that the majority of students at public schools may not. 

 

Ultimately, there isn't a perfect way to rank universities, but using a combination of everything discussed would get us the closest. Which is what these rankings try to do. 

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On 8/6/2022 at 6:56 PM, Headbutt said:

No question.  CU doesn't deliver the Denver market and CSU doesn't deliver the Denver market.  We split the leftovers from the pro market.  There is zero added revenue from adding another team in that market.  OTOH, it's a big mistake not to be in that market.  If they lose CU (they won't), they almost have to add CSU.  AFA won't cut it.

If CU stays in the PAC, does CSU suddenly look better to the New12 ?

Simply because of the Denver DMA.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 8/8/2022 at 4:50 PM, Spaztecs said:

If CU stays in the PAC, does CSU suddenly look better to the New12 ?

Simply because of the Denver DMA.

Probably not.  They already passed on that once.  I get the lack of FB success, but I am surprised the B12 hasn't made that offer.  Tons of B12 alumni in the area, a favorite destination for midwesterners, and of course TV sets.  I can only assume that with all the dilution of the market, the networks aren't seeing the value.

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On 8/8/2022 at 8:20 PM, azgreg said:

And Big-12 I believe

 

Not necessarily. ESPN will likely have to spend on the Pac-12 now as they don't have the B1G. Apple, Turner, CBS and others will likely jack up the price knowing ESPN needs the inventory. By this point next year, ESPN will have a lot less money to spend on the Big 12. 

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On 8/8/2022 at 5:22 PM, shizzle787 said:

Not necessarily. ESPN will likely have to spend on the Pac-12 now as they don't have the B1G. Apple, Turner, CBS and others will likely jack up the price knowing ESPN needs the inventory. By this point next year, ESPN will have a lot less money to spend on the Big 12. 

I think if ESPN gets locked out of teh B1G it will be forced to overpay for the Big 12 and the PAC 12.

 

People, not a fan.

 

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On 8/8/2022 at 7:14 PM, azgreg said:

 

Auerbach can come off as a bit smug and self-reverential, but she's really well connected nationally and in particular with B10 stuff.  I think the B1G is about to set the bar for media deals.  The SEC will try to top it--and probably slightly will out of ESPN spite towards the B1G.  After that, every other conference (and Notre Dame) will make their asks based on what percentage of the B10 package they think they're worth.

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