Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Dogday63

Allegations of rape and cover-up at SDSU

Recommended Posts

I know it’s extremely difficult in a lot of cases, but women need to immediately report a rape and immediately go to the hospital to collect DNA. Unfortunately a lot of times the guy will claim it was consensual and it turns into a he said she said situation. In the above case with five guys involved you would think someone could be charged particularly if DNA evidence was obtained. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2022 at 9:59 PM, SpaceForced said:

So, allegedly a minor was raped.  She was unconscious when raped and presumably has no clue who did this to her.  Was there even a rape kit involved so that physical evidence was obtained?  Seems like a difficult case to follow because it's all "he said she said" that brought this to anyone's attention.   Sure there are more than likely names attached to the "1 senior and 4 freshman" but what is there that specifically ties them to the crime that allegedly occurred.  If the police had anything solid to make an arrest it would have been done one would think.  Sure it's a horrible crime that allegedly happened to a minor but, the police are not going to arrest anyone without evidence or eye witnesses that would link them to the crime.  And I may be presumptuous to think they probably don't have that DNA evidence which would slam the perpetrators in jail.

I'm not sure what the SDSU investigation would find that the police haven't found.  You can't kick the 4 freshman off the team or out of school without be willing to pay millions in a lawsuit.  The same goes with the police.  In this case the city of San Diego would be sued for millions.  In the end the victim suffers the most because if she doesn't have the evidence to go after anyone what can she do.

I can't help but think that the truth will be a long time coming and hope justice would hopefully be served sooner rather than later.  Just spouting off some late night opinion.

Just one correction. You sure can kick them off the team, for any reason. The coaches have to be aware of this, including names of the alleged perpetrators. They must have reason to believe they’re innocent, or they would have at the least been directed towards the portal. No coach wants this on his resume. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2022 at 7:17 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

What womEn? To my understanding, there is just one involved. Not only that but she hasn't registered a complaint and no other "woman" or girl has come forward.

Look, sexual assault and battery is vile and if it occurred, all four of the involved "freshmen" should be kicked out of school. However, it sure as heck is taking SDPD a Chuck Long time to come up with enough evidence for an indictment.

 

On 6/3/2022 at 7:27 PM, SDSUfan said:

Woman.  One Woman.  The  SDSU athlete who is stirring the pot wasn't even at the party. She's spouting hearsay based on rumor. There were, according the the RUMOR going around campus, five attackers but no one has come forward as a witness. Everything at this point is alleged.

Just stop with the alarmist bullcrap. There was one alleged incident involving one alleged victim. There is no evidence of anyone being in any danger. FFS get a goddamn grip.

Yes, one victim allegedly gang raped by 5 football players. Countless others afraid.  Safe bet that the student athletes who reported it were women, and are now most likely about to return to campus soon for fall sports/workouts.

But you guys knew that.

No doubt this entire thing sucks, and could put a black eye on your school for a minute. But IF they covered it up, then they should all be fired.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 4:53 AM, 4UNLV said:

 

Yes, one victim allegedly gang raped by 5 football players. Countless others afraid.  Safe bet that the student athletes who reported it were women, and are now most likely about to return to campus soon for fall sports/workouts.

But you guys knew that.

No doubt this entire thing sucks, and could put a black eye on your school for a minute. But IF they covered it up, then they should all be fired.

 

The rape, if there was one, occured LAST OCTOBER. Therefore, the climate of fear, rape gangs roaming the campus looking for their next victim, has existed since then. Weird that no other incidents have been reported. 

Just. Stop.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2022 at 8:59 PM, SpaceForced said:

So, allegedly a minor was raped.  She was unconscious when raped and presumably has no clue who did this to her.  Was there even a rape kit involved so that physical evidence was obtained?  Seems like a difficult case to follow because it's all "he said she said" that brought this to anyone's attention.   Sure there are more than likely names attached to the "1 senior and 4 freshman" but what is there that specifically ties them to the crime that allegedly occurred.  If the police had anything solid to make an arrest it would have been done one would think.  Sure it's a horrible crime that allegedly happened to a minor but, the police are not going to arrest anyone without evidence or eye witnesses that would link them to the crime.  And I may be presumptuous to think they probably don't have that DNA evidence which would slam the perpetrators in jail.

I'm not sure what the SDSU investigation would find that the police haven't found.  You can't kick the 4 freshman off the team or out of school without be willing to pay millions in a lawsuit.  The same goes with the police.  In this case the city of San Diego would be sued for millions.  In the end the victim suffers the most because if she doesn't have the evidence to go after anyone what can she do.

I can't help but think that the truth will be a long time coming and hope justice would hopefully be served sooner rather than later.  Just spouting off some late night opinion.

Did you even read the article? Yes there was a rape kit. 

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2022 at 6:13 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yeah, the more I dig into the more I think "+++++ SDSU, THE LEADERSHIP AND COACHES"

Not suspending the players from the team is the most disgusting thing to happen in the MWC since its inception.  And that might not be even close to the worst of it.

If what seems more likely than not is true. every coach should be fired, the AD should be fired, their president should be fired.

We are talking about the brutal (alleged) gang rape of a minor leaving the woman bloody and broken and SDSU coaches shrugging their shoulders.  

+++++ em all.  

 

So you must have dug more than the LA Times!  In 8 months the LA times can only come up with 2 hearsay witnesses.  There is a reason hearsay isn’t admissible in court.  And yet you clowns want to throw due process out the window.

I don’t know if the second hand allegations are true or not, but don’t ruin someone’s life based solely on hearsay.  Someday you may be accused of something ( doesn’t have to be rape) And you will actually appreciate innocent until proven guilty.

PS the headline mentions rape and cover up, but the story includes no facts of a cover up by SDSU.  That alone is telling

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 8:55 AM, Old_SD_Dude said:

Did you even read the article? Yes there was a rape kit. 

Yes, I read the article.  The anonymous student athlete, as reported in the LA Times, said this:

"This student-athlete also was not present at the home during the party but reported hearing similar accusations, including that the alleged victim took a rape kit.".

I don't see how that makes it a fact and how you could take it as a fact.  If the police have access to that information and access to information provided from a rape kit it certainly wasn't made clear in the article.

Stamp.

Ukrainian postage stamp honoring Snake Island soldiers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 11:24 AM, SpaceForced said:

Yes, I read the article.  The anonymous student athlete, as reported in the LA Times, said this:

"This student-athlete also was not present at the home during the party but reported hearing similar accusations, including that the alleged victim took a rape kit.".

I don't see how that makes it a fact and how you could take it as a fact.  If the police have access to that information and access to information provided from a rape kit it certainly wasn't made clear in the article.

The report of a rape kit being taken is from the same source that reported the rape in the first place. One part is credible and the other isn’t?

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 12:50 PM, Old_SD_Dude said:

The report of a rape kit being taken is from the same source that reported the rape in the first place. One part is credible and the other isn’t?

Neither part is credible when you have an anonymous student repeating hearsay reported a crime and reported a rape kit.  I would love to hear as a fact that the police have a rape kit as opposed to some anonymous student repeating hearsay.  I wish the police had the eyewitness and evidence in hand.  As I said before this isn't an easy case to follow when hearsay is the most you have at this point.

Stamp.

Ukrainian postage stamp honoring Snake Island soldiers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2022 at 10:20 PM, soupslam1 said:

I know it’s extremely difficult in a lot of cases, but women need to immediately report a rape and immediately go to the hospital to collect DNA. Unfortunately a lot of times the guy will claim it was consensual and it turns into a he said she said situation. In the above case with five guys involved you would think someone could be charged particularly if DNA evidence was obtained. 

It is never, ever that easy in a impaired rape case.    Disparate and conflicting witness testimony.  Victims giving multiple statements.   Issues identifying alleged participants to even get DNA warrants.  Ages of victim vs. alleged defendants which play into whether non-consent is statutory.   Time between reporting.   Most of these cases with the post-millenial age kids involve significant use of texts, and social media evidence to pin down locations of particular defendants and particulary if something like snapchat was used then the records aren't readily available except through a lengthy subpeona process.  They also often get geolocating warrants to determine every phone in the area and those can take months as well.  Once the investigation is made public they also alert participants to ditch electronic devices and clean accounts to the extent possible and they want to have search warrants coincide with "supposedly voluntary interrogations" and arrests.  

The other thing that is very common is the use of the victim to obtain recorded apologies, admissions, and texts.  They also may be trying to get DNA anonomously through trash searches exc and analysis of multiple DNA samples of different types of fluids, that is cross contaminated with potentially  multiple individuals is time consuming and very complicated from an evidentiary standpoint.

Never believe a media report like this for the raw facts when they come out.   They may have botched this or protecting someone but nothing from the article is more than lurid speculation.  Ultimately, these cases are generally much more  difficult to prove once the alleged suspects get wind of it and lawyer up which they have obviously done by now.   The good thing is if they do have stromg evidence to bring charges they can play the defendants against each other fairly easily but that process is now counsel negotiated instead of the preferred interrogation scare tactics and leverage on plea deals is much more limited on the prosecution side without prior confessions.

Sometimes the worst thing that comes of media reports is pressure to charge a half-baked case without the full story and then things can fall apart like the Duke LaCrosse case when if other side of the story comes out. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2022 at 1:12 PM, dshawfan said:

On this I have no idea what the agreement was between the SDPD and SDSU, and as a father of 3 girls, suspending the players involved is my knee jerk reaction, but what if they are innocent of this claim? Does the school then face repercussions from the suspended players? It's a truly ugly situation for all involved, and it seems like the school is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Which is one of the many, many issues with the title IX process.    Because this allegedly occurred off campus with a non-student, no private individual has brought a claim, and law enforcement has rightly asked to keep it quiet, this is one of the rare cases that appears to be handled correctly from at least that aspect (at least before the media leaks).  

There are obvious reasons a coach could act to temporarily suspend players (an arrest, charge, or a credible formal civil allegation, violation of other team rules in the process) but in this case the suspensions would have literally blown up an investigation even if specific players were credibly indentified.

In an ideal world we don't have Title IX all such cases should go through law enforcement and coaches should be empowered to take reasonable actions to enforce team rules at the standards they feel are appropriate without being a judge or juror of the underlying alleged crimeds or judged adversely for waiting for evidence and verdicts.  I understand some sort of civil process for universities to protect themselves but they shouldn't take heat for not taking final action without reasonable doubt convictions, or a university disciplinary process with de novo court review provisions, full evidentiary standards, protection of rights and decisions made by an attorney admin judge at at least "clear and convincing" proof levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 12:51 PM, hickaggie said:

In an ideal world we don't have Title IX all such cases should go through law enforcement and coaches should be empowered to take reasonable actions to enforce team rules at the standards they feel are appropriate without being a judge or juror of the underlying alleged crimeds or judged adversely for waiting for evidence and verdicts.  I understand some sort of civil process for universities to protect themselves but they shouldn't take heat for not taking final action without reasonable doubt convictions, or a university disciplinary process with de novo court review provisions, full evidentiary standards, protection of rights and decisions made by an attorney admin judge at at least "clear and convincing" proof levels.

if the world was "ideal" we wouldn't need title 9

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 1:29 PM, hickaggie said:

It is never, ever that easy in a impaired rape case.    Disparate and conflicting witness testimony.  Victims giving multiple statements.   Issues identifying alleged participants to even get DNA warrants.  Ages of victim vs. alleged defendants which play into whether non-consent is statutory.   Time between reporting.   Most of these cases with the post-millenial age kids involve significant use of texts, and social media evidence to pin down locations of particular defendants and particulary if something like snapchat was used then the records aren't readily available except through a lengthy subpeona process.  They also often get geolocating warrants to determine every phone in the area and those can take months as well.  Once the investigation is made public they also alert participants to ditch electronic devices and clean accounts to the extent possible and they want to have search warrants coincide with "supposedly voluntary interrogations" and arrests.  

The other thing that is very common is the use of the victim to obtain recorded apologies, admissions, and texts.  They also may be trying to get DNA anonomously through trash searches exc and analysis of multiple DNA samples of different types of fluids, that is cross contaminated with potentially  multiple individuals is time consuming and very complicated from an evidentiary standpoint.

Never believe a media report like this for the raw facts when they come out.   They may have botched this or protecting someone but nothing from the article is more than lurid speculation.  Ultimately, these cases are generally much more  difficult to prove once the alleged suspects get wind of it and lawyer up which they have obviously done by now.   The good thing is if they do have stromg evidence to bring charges they can play the defendants against each other fairly easily but that process is now counsel negotiated instead of the preferred interrogation scare tactics and leverage on plea deals is much more limited on the prosecution side without prior confessions.

Sometimes the worst thing that comes of media reports is pressure to charge a half-baked case without the full story and then things can fall apart like the Duke LaCrosse case when if other side of the story comes out. 

 

 

Which is why SDSU needed to open an investigation long ago.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 3:21 PM, Rebels2k3 said:

The police are notoriously bad when it comes to investigating rape cases. The statistics behind them are shocking. Read more here.

I wouldn't put much faith into the police here, especially when it comes to big times college athletes. We all know how the "good ole' boys" club operates.

 

LOL. You know nothing about San Diego. Nothing.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 4:21 PM, Rebels2k3 said:

Please enlighten me then

Okay. It's a city of 1.4 million in a region of roughly  3.5 million. It is not some small football obsessed college town . There are "good ol boys" networks but they move billions and work real estate deals. They do not exist as a bulwark to protect a bunch of college kids from criminal prosecution.  The very concept is patently absurd.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 4:21 PM, Rebels2k3 said:

Please enlighten me then

And Here is Dr. De La Torre's bio.  Not exactly "good ol' boy material.

https://president.sdsu.edu/meet-the-president/about-the-president

Once again, I will put my stock in the integrity of our police department, Dr. De La Torre and the university administration generally until proven otherwise.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2022 at 4:21 PM, Rebels2k3 said:

The police are notoriously bad when it comes to investigating rape cases. The statistics behind them are shocking. Read more here.

I wouldn't put much faith into the police here, especially when it comes to big times college athletes. We all know how the "good ole' boys" club operates.

 

Your chart leaves out how many sexual assault cases get referred to prosecutors.  Why is that?

The charts you present do not address your assertion that police are notoriously bad when it comes to investigating rape cases at all.  Investigating and arrest rate vary widely among many types of crimes.  Some are much more difficult to gain evidence on than others.  A failure to arrest hardly indicates a failure to investigate.  I'd say the 31% reporting rate is the most alarming statistic there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...