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retrofade

Today's mass shooting is.............

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:40 PM, FresnoFacts said:

Warren Burger wrote a 1990 article about the large number of gun related homicides in the late 1980s/early 1990s. He argued for the regulation of firearms.

Burger pointed out that the early Americans did not trust a standing army which was why they relied on militias and wrote the the Second Amendment. Burger also said we learned "In the two centuries since then -- with two world wars and some lesser ones -- it has become clear, sadly, that we have no choice but to maintain a standing national army while still maintaining a "militia" by way of the National Guard, which can be swiftly integrated into the national defense forces."

He then argued there was a need to regulate firearms to stop what he called even back then "this mindless homicidal carnage". His argument for firearm regulation was:

"Americans also have a right to defend their homes, and we need not challenge that. Nor does anyone seriously question that the Constitution protects the right of hunters to own and keep sporting guns for hunting game any more than anyone would challenge the right to own and keep fishing rods and other equipment for fishing -- or to own automobiles. To "keep and bear arms" for hunting today is essentially a recreational activity and not an imperative of survival, as it was 200 years ago; "Saturday night specials" and machine guns are not recreational weapons and surely are as much in need of regulation as motor vehicles.

Americans should ask themselves a few questions. The Constitution does not mention automobiles or motorboats, but the right to keep and own an automobile is beyond question; equally beyond question is the power of the state to regulate the purchase or the transfer of such a vehicle and the right to license the vehicle and the driver with reasonable standards. In some places, even a bicycle must be registered, as must some household dogs."

There should be no question that firearms can and should be regulated instead of the hysteria about taking guns away. Instead the only question should be what the regulations should be.

This is a deeply flawed opinion. He was no longer on the supreme court when he said that. 

The 2A was not put into the constitution to protect our right to hunt deer, or anything else. It was put into the constitution to give people the ability to form a militia

There is no right to own a fishing pole, or a car, or a motorboat, or most physical property for that matter. The federal government could pass a law tomorrow outlawing cars, and boats if they wanted to. 

 

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 9:34 AM, happycamper said:

Convert FFS just once in your life act like a civil engineer. 

No, they wouldn't. We already know the safest way to manage roads. It isn't obscenely low speed limits, it isn't excessive fines, it's designing the road geometry and signage to be safe. The safest speed limit is already known! It's the 80th percentile speed of cars. Artificially lowering that causes more accidents, despite the risk of a ticket, for many reasons. 

 

Happycrapper’s #1 Trusted Source For News & Info:  His Ass. You can be so bizarre, dude. Forget about civil engineering, you need to re-visit basic physics.

https://nacto.org/publication/city-limits/the-need/speed-kills/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2018/03/30/speed-kills-new-global-study-confirms-strong-link-between-crash-risk-and-vehicle-speed/amp/

https://www.iihs.org/topics/speed

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/07/27/ntsb-speed-kills-and-were-not-doing-enough-to-stop-it/

kat.jpg

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 4:42 PM, Jackrabbit said:

  

Some guns are defensive some are fun some are collectibles some are all of the above. What business is it of yours?

 

That's an easy one to answer.  Because most people aren't mind readers and don't know your intent.  Or your mental state.

 

Many years ago, when I was a teenaged RSF, my late father spent several weeks in the hospital being treated for depression.  When he got out, he could no longer legally own a gun (not that he wanted one).  Infringing on his 2A rights, amirite?  Or protecting himself and potential harm, however small that risk was.  One of those things better background checks should uncover.

 

And, in the vast majority of people, the defensive/collectible/fun guns aren't the concern anyways.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:45 PM, SharkTanked said:

I am sure they fear the Gravy Seals. There are means of redress sans armed insurrection, but if it comes to that, I will come on down to borrow a gun and you can lecture me.

Meantimes, maybe we can save some people from dying? Guess not probably.

Yes we got caught up in this worthless back and forth.   Refer to my opening post this morning

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:46 PM, RSF said:

Scalia was of that mind as well, that the 'right' was not absolute.  Dirty liberals, both of them....

The 2A is not absolute. Very few people will argue that it is. We rightly cannot buy a grenade launcher, or an anti aircraft cannon to put in our backyards. That would be fun if we could though. 

Most explicit rights are not absolute. You have freedom of speech, but that doesn't;t mean you can't be sued into insolvency if you ruin someones reputation through slander. 

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 4:56 PM, bornontheblue said:

This is a deeply flawed opinion. He was no longer on the supreme court when he said that. 

The 2A was not put into the constitution to protect our right to hunt deer, or anything else. It was put into the constitution to give people the ability to form a militia

There is no right to own a fishing pole, or a car, or a motorboat, or most physical property for that matter. The federal government could pass a law tomorrow outlawing cars, and boats if they wanted to. 

 

 

I knew better than to wade into this mess....

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:58 PM, RSF said:

That's an easy one to answer.  Because most people aren't mind readers and don't know your intent.  Or your mental state.

 

Many years ago, when I was a teenaged RSF, my late father spent several weeks in the hospital being treated for depression.  When he got out, he could no longer legally own a gun (not that he wanted one).  Infringing on his 2A rights, amirite?  Or protecting himself and potential harm, however small that risk was.  One of those things better background checks should uncover.

 

And, in the vast majority of people, the defensive/collectible/fun guns aren't the concern anyways.

Potentially violates the patients right to privacy though. As well as no recourse to ever amend that decision.

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On 5/25/2022 at 2:29 PM, SharkTanked said:

I can think of no other reason. @Aslowhiteguy's admission that 100 rd magazine sounds fun speaks to that.

I don't think it is fair to point the finger at mental illness while also not acknowledging our cultural appreciation of guns. It is a fetish for some. And it goes well beyond anything justified by the 2A, historical or modern interpretation. I think we need to understand what guns are really intended to do. These guns are intended to kill people. How is that fun? How is that something to fetishize? Maybe we should examine that too?

Target shooting is literally a blast.  An AR is a fun gun to shoot.  So is an AK.  I can see why recreational shooters like them.  I have no use for them, but I wouldn't call you names if you wanted to get one, just for the fun of it. 

 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:58 PM, RSF said:

That's an easy one to answer.  Because most people aren't mind readers and don't know your intent.  Or your mental state.

 

Many years ago, when I was a teenaged RSF, my late father spent several weeks in the hospital being treated for depression.  When he got out, he could no longer legally own a gun (not that he wanted one).  Infringing on his 2A rights, amirite?  Or protecting himself and potential harm, however small that risk was.  One of those things better background checks should uncover.

 

And, in the vast majority of people, the defensive/collectible/fun guns aren't the concern anyways.

So...if Dad is treated for a mental illness and they are banned forever for owning a gun....is there due process if he changes his mind? Perhaps but it would cost big bucks to get a stroke of govts pen reversed.

This is why many don't want treatment.

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On 5/25/2022 at 11:10 AM, Aslowhiteguy said:

Isn't it true that during the last two school shootings, the shooter was engaged by LE outside of the school, but the shooter had a bigger gun and body armor? 

It's looking like at least some of these guys go in knowing they won't come out.  Could it be that some of these guys do what they do in order to die with some infamy?  If that's the case, would it be best to not reveal their names on the news? 

I know that is not a solution.  One problem, as I see it, is our gov't is swinging for the fences and hoping one, big, single, measure will help to stop mass shootings.  IMO, the more viable solution may be a series of smaller measures that can pass and be implemented. 

Sometimes you can win the game with a string of base hits and no home runs.

Punishing law abiding gun owners isn't going to stop someone with evil intentions from getting as many guns as he wants.

I agree that there is no one solution.

However, isn't the NRA opposed to banning body armor? If so, WTF value do those things provide to a civilized society? And why in the world do we allow companies to manufacture ghost guns and sell them legally over the internet? And why magazines holding 20 or so rounds? Is that necessary for hunting in the event you've got 20-50 eyesight or something?

America needs a multi-pronged solution. Much better gun laws which don't restrict lawful hunting but do restrict unlawful batshit crazy wannabe murderers PLUS better background checks, red flag laws and better mental health access.

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On 5/25/2022 at 5:03 PM, Jackrabbit said:

So...if Dad is treated for a mental illness and they are banned forever for owning a gun....is there due process if he changes his mind? Perhaps but it would cost big bucks to get a stroke of govts pen reversed.

This is why many don't want treatment.

That last sentence may be one of the more bizarre statements I have ever encountered.

On 5/25/2022 at 5:01 PM, RSF said:

I knew better than to wade into this mess....

 

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:05 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

I agree that there is no one solution.

However, isn't the NRA opposed to banning body armor? If so, WTF value do those things provide to a civilized society? And why in the world do we allow companies to manufacture ghost guns and sell them legally over the internet? And why magazines holding 20 or so rounds? Is that necessary for hunting in the event you've got 20-50 eyesight or something?

America needs a multi-pronged solution. Much better gun laws which don't restrict lawful hunting but do restrict unlawful batshit crazy wannabe murderers PLUS better background checks, red flag laws and better mental health access.

I am not aware of the NRA opposing body armor.  There was some back and forth about armor piercing bullets decades ago.  Could that be what you're thinking of?  It's also possible they do oppose BA and I never heard of them doing so. 

Even if it were banned, you could make your own with steel plates.  It would be heavy, but it would work. 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:38 PM, Jackrabbit said:

Sure it is their job....but homeschooling is becoming more popular.

I am not sure why govt should be involved in the logic of me owning a gun.   I fear govt as much as expecting it to keep my family safe.

You aren't sure why government should be involved in people owning guns after the umpteenth mass murder with guns in the US, this one involving a class of young kids?  Ok.  

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On 5/25/2022 at 4:14 PM, RSF said:

That last sentence may be one of the more bizarre statements I have ever encountered.

 

How so.?...many homeless don't want mental health treatment because they fear being put away or not be able to live as they .wish.

How would a life long hunter react?

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On 5/25/2022 at 4:19 PM, alum93 said:

You aren't sure why government should be involved in people owning guns after the umpteenth mass murder with guns in the US, this one involving a class of young kids?  Ok.  

Perhaps....then govt should be good at it since it already has a hand in destroying families and enslaving millions.

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:14 PM, RSF said:

That last sentence may be one of the more bizarre statements I have ever encountered.

 

It's also a factual statement and one that I've heard before from people with firsthand knowledge of a person like that. 

For some people, telling them they can't have a gun is worse than telling them they can't have a car. 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:03 PM, Aslowhiteguy said:

Target shooting is literally a blast.  An AR is a fun gun to shoot.  So is an AK.  I can see why recreational shooters like them.  I have no use for them, but I wouldn't call you names if you wanted to get one, just for the fun of it. 

 

Which is part of our cultural problem. We need to think of these weapons as tools for destruction rather than tools of entertainment.

Lots of blaming of movies, videogames, etc., but not a lot of discussion of Dad taking his son out for a fun target shoot. I would just like to see a national discussion around firearms as recreation. I think one of the ways we can really make a change in mass shootings is to change our relationship with guns from an early age. They are a weapon. Their purpose is to kill.

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