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retrofade

Today's mass shooting is.............

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Isn't it true that during the last two school shootings, the shooter was engaged by LE outside of the school, but the shooter had a bigger gun and body armor? 

It's looking like at least some of these guys go in knowing they won't come out.  Could it be that some of these guys do what they do in order to die with some infamy?  If that's the case, would it be best to not reveal their names on the news? 

I know that is not a solution.  One problem, as I see it, is our gov't is swinging for the fences and hoping one, big, single, measure will help to stop mass shootings.  IMO, the more viable solution may be a series of smaller measures that can pass and be implemented. 

Sometimes you can win the game with a string of base hits and no home runs.

Punishing law abiding gun owners isn't going to stop someone with evil intentions from getting as many guns as he wants.

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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On 5/25/2022 at 1:56 PM, SJSUMFA2013 said:

It’s terminal. Time to pull the plug.

You're a smart guy SJSU. I'm sure you've heard of the partition of India. I encourage you to dig into it further.

A "peaceful" partition of the US would lead to millions dead, tens of millions displaced, ethnic cleansing, and massive economic disruptions. 

A Yugoslav style partition would lead to more dead, mass rapes, genocide, civil war, and given what we have, a likely continental nuclear war. 

 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 5/25/2022 at 11:01 AM, WYO1016 said:

 

 

Quoting myself so that I can make my stance here crystal clear. Soup and UNLV2001 are right on the money here. There is one piece of gun reform that would be REALLY hard to refute. It wouldn't be subjective either. It would also hurt more than a few businesses, which is why no one in Congress will ever have the balls to bring it up:

Ban the sale of any weapon with a semi-automatic action or removable magazine. If law enforcement confiscates one of these weapons, destroy it. If a pawn shop has one, destroy it. Institute a buy-back program for people that already own them. When they sell them back, destroy them.

This will not stop mass shootings. I want to be very clear on that. It will, however, be a step in the right direction.

People will argue that you need these types of weapons for self defense. No you don't. If you're being attacked by more than 3 people you're screwed anyways, so no reason to have an extra magazine ready. They'll argue that you need it to protect yourself from government. No you don't. If the government becomes your enemy your gravy seals semi-auto rifle with a drum clip isn't going to matter.

This will hurt the gun industry. Magpul moved to Cheyenne because they didn't like Colorado's new gun laws. This would put them out of business. That sucks. I have friends that work there, and they would be out of a job. People can get new jobs, though. People can't bring the dead back to life.

There are workable solutions here. It is time to change our relationship with firearms though...

On 5/25/2022 at 9:03 AM, SharkTanked said:

What I would like to see, and it will not happen, is:

1. A ban on the manufacture and sale of all auto (already banned I believe?) and semi auto weapons. Today.

2. Classification of possession of and/or manufacture of ghost guns as an act of domestic terrorism.

3. A Federal "buy back" program for any firearm for 10% above current market value (not to apply to ghost guns). No questions asked as to the ownership of the weapon. If you are a gun owner you are responsible for securing your firearm from theft.

4. A ban on high-capacity magazines.

5. For purchase of firearms: Mandatory background checks to include psychological profile (this may have to be something government provided due to liability), proof of successful completion of a firearms safety course.

 

I await the multitude of reasons as to why this can't happen.

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On 5/25/2022 at 10:59 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Only 13% of mass shootings are committed with rifles of any kind.

Help me understand what semi-autos are good for beside shooting a lot of people really fast. I get that there are a lot of mass shootings with all the guns we have in this country, just always seems the biggest events include an AR. Honestly I dont see the purpose the AR fills that other guns dont already take care of that isnt basically that it can shoot a lot of bullets very quickly. 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 2:10 PM, Aslowhiteguy said:

Isn't it true that during the last two school shootings, the shooter was engaged by LE outside of the school, but the shooter had a bigger gun and body armor? 

It's looking like at least some of these guys go in knowing they won't come out.  Could it be that some of these guys do what they do in order to die with some infamy?  If that's the case, would it be best to not reveal their names on the news? 

I know that is not a solution.  One problem, as I see it, is our gov't is swinging for the fences and hoping one, big, single, measure will help to stop mass shootings.  IMO, the more viable solution may be a series of smaller measures that can pass and be implemented. 

Sometimes you can win the game with a string of base hits and no home runs.

Punishing law abiding gun owners isn't going to stop someone with evil intentions from getting as many guns as he wants.

Yes. Absolutely. 

I think your analogy of a ton of base hits is a... lot closer to base... than the idea of a home run. I don't think there is any one thing wrong with what we are doing. No mental health care services, a culture that grinds our children into dust, a lack of people for the future, little community relations, a media climate that portrays mass shooters as something between James Dean and Rambo... 

All issues that need addressed. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 5/25/2022 at 11:10 AM, HR_Poke said:

what's the small insignificant issue?

The "small aspect" you referred to. I assumed you were referring to something like banning AR-15's based on your other posts. Apologies if I mis-interpreted.

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The only thing that would work in today's world to drastically reduce these situations, but not gun crime, overall, is a complete ban on new manufacturing of all semi autos and a buy back program. 

Neither is going to happen. 

I do find the cultural aspect to be the hardest pill to swallow:

 

 

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 12:13 PM, AztecSU said:

Help me understand what semi-autos are good for beside shooting a lot of people really fast. I get that there are a lot of mass shootings with all the guns we have in this country, just always seems the biggest events include an AR...and honestly I dont see the purpose the AR fills that other guns dont already take care of that isnt basically that it can shoot a lot of bullets very quickly in a firearm that is closely modeled to a weapon of war. 

 

It requires a great deal of practice and proficiency to use a six shooter for self defense, even more a bolt action rifle.  Anybody who has ever shot guns knows this.  A semi-automatic hand gun is far more practical for home or self defense.  

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On 5/25/2022 at 12:10 PM, retrofade said:

Physical security still requires limiting access. 

If you don't have a fence, then you have no physical security. You could have virtual barriers that set off an alarm if someone without an RFID badge or something walked through them. But then you've still allowed a physical breach to occur. 

If a breach occurs than all rooms can instantly and unanimously be securely locked triggered by the breach itself.   You wouldn't even need someone to flip a switch or something.  A shooter can shoot the hell out of empty hallways , but the kids are safe in secured classrooms. 

West Ada School district in Idaho is doing something similar to this I believe. 

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 12:15 PM, SharkTanked said:

The "small aspect" you referred to. I assumed you were referring to something like banning AR-15's based on your other posts. Apologies if I mis-interpreted.

I guess I was thinking banning and confiscating AR's and other "Assault Rifles" while still allowing various other semi automatic rifles and pistols really wasn't going to have an impact in my opinion.  

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On 5/25/2022 at 11:16 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

It requires a great deal of practice and proficiency to use a six shooter for self defense, even more a bolt action rifle.  Anybody who has ever shot guns knows this.  A semi-automatic hand gun is far more practical for home or self defense.  

There are plenty of semi-auto hand guns so not sure why you are talking about 6 shooters. lol. My reference to semi-auto was referring to ARs specifically if thats not clear. 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 10:27 AM, happycamper said:

I think if your answer is "we need to make schools militarized zones, which no civilization in history has had to do" the problem isn't school security, it is something intrinsically rotten with the civilization. 

This wasn't really a problem even 2 decades ago. That leads me to believe that, hopefully, it is something we can address and fix - it is something that is not necessarily inherent in America itself or in a market economy. 

I think we are seeing larger symptoms of a truly +++++ed up society.  We need big societal changes and I don't think there is any motivation from the public at large to change them. 

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On 5/25/2022 at 12:19 PM, AztecSU said:

There are plenty of semi-auto hand guns so not sure why you are talking about 6 shooters. lol. 

You asked me what point a semi-automatic weapon serves besides mass shootings.  I answered.  *shrug

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On 5/25/2022 at 12:15 PM, scounty said:

The only thing that would work in today's world to drastically reduce these situations, but not gun crime, overall, is a complete ban on new manufacturing of all semi autos and a buy back program. 

Neither is going to happen. 

I do find the cultural aspect to be the hardest pill to swallow:

 

 

 

He's got a point in the thread that the Covid isolation definitely had an impact in the short term increase of these events. 

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On 5/25/2022 at 11:16 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

It requires a great deal of practice and proficiency to use a six shooter for self defense, even more a bolt action rifle.  Anybody who has ever shot guns knows this.  A semi-automatic hand gun is far more practical for home or self defense.  

BTW, I have shot plenty of guns including an M1 Carbine. If a war started today I would much rather have all these Ar15s wannabes everyone has than an M1...and I think that matters when defining the purpose of these weapons. 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 12:09 PM, SharkTanked said:

What I find interesting is that even such a small, likely insignificant issue, produces extreme hostility. Exploring that gets to the roots of other issues.

Yeah, the constant deflecting to talk about everything else than the main issue is really astonishing.  All you have to do is compare the USA to the rest of the world to find the variable.  I guess we can all play the deflection game....maybe the mass shootings are because there is no universal healthcare system like the rest of the world has.  We should probably solve that urgently first before we think about doing anything about the guns. :thumbsup:

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On 5/25/2022 at 12:22 PM, AztecSU said:

BTW, I have shot plenty of guns including an M1 Carbine. If a war started today I would much rather have all these Ar15s wannabes everyone has than an M1...and I think that matters when defining the purpose of these weapons. 

Did you mean semi-automatic rifles not just semi-automatic guns in your question above?  If so that is an entirely different question.

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On 5/25/2022 at 2:17 PM, bornontheblue said:

If a breach occurs than all rooms can instantly and unanimously be securely locked triggered by the breach itself.   You wouldn't even need someone to flip a switch or something.  A shooter can shoot the hell out of empty hallways , but the kids are safe in secured classrooms. 

West Ada School district in Idaho is doing something similar to this I believe. 

 

Yes, that can happen. 

Which is why I'm asking about open campuses... which exist all over the west coast. That campus I posted has classrooms that have doors and windows that open up onto the main common areas. There's no hallways. So do we put bulletproof glass in the classrooms? That's the stuff I'm talking about here. 

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