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happycamper

Conferenceless Protected Rivalries

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On 5/19/2022 at 9:00 AM, happycamper said:

Let's see if we can make this work.

UNLV - Hawaii, Nevada, AFA

I did it with 2 in conference + 1 out of conference to mix it up a little bit. Going all in division would have made more sense, but then what the hell is the point of going no divisions? Might as well just have 5 "protected rivalries". 

 

2. afa is my default "idk everyone likes playing them right" team

UNLV vs AFA isn't much of a rivalry - Only thing that makes AF maybe want to come into LV is we have two AFB's in the immediate area (Nellis & Creech) - As for the two programs I don't see any reason for play as a rivalry 

UNLV would be Nevada, Hawaii (for the many local PI population & 9th island status) and either Fresno St/ SDSU  / SJSU -- with Fresno & SDSU leading over SJSU  

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On 5/21/2022 at 9:03 AM, sactowndog said:

It’s possible it could go… 

Utah State, Wyoming, Colorado St, and Air Force…..  Utah State has a long history with Wyoming.   
 

New Mexico is kind of on an island rivalry wise which is an issue.   


Really the league should have added UTEP and UTSA and gone to 14 moving Boise west.  
 

Divisions with:
 

East: Wyoming, CSU, AF, UT San Antonio (a big AF town),  Utah State, UTEP and New Mexico

West: Boise State, Nevada, Fresno State, SDSU, SJSU, UNLV, Hawaii

would have maintained and created better rivalries across the conference and games people wanted to see….. 

Why does somebody always come up with a plan to add two crap teams and shove them into the Mtn. division as some sort of solution?  

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On 5/21/2022 at 6:32 PM, Headbutt said:

Why does somebody always come up with a plan to add two crap teams and shove them into the Mtn. division as some sort of solution?  

To give you all a chance to finally win something :shrug:

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On 5/21/2022 at 8:27 PM, sactowndog said:

To give you all a chance to finally win something :shrug:

Touche'.  Hard to argue with that, but if we're going to go searching for new east side members, let us do the looking.  I'd take FCS Montana or NDSU over either of those two.  Way, way more upside on the field.  Facilities?  Not so much.

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On 5/21/2022 at 10:28 PM, Headbutt said:

Touche'.  Hard to argue with that, but if we're going to go searching for new east side members, let us do the looking.  I'd take FCS Montana or NDSU over either of those two.  Way, way more upside on the field.  Facilities?  Not so much.

The intent was to give New Mexico some long standing rivalries.   You already have Utah State, Wyoming and Air Force.  Quit being greedy. 
 

Part of the decline in New Mexico athletics is due to the destruction of long standing rivalries.  It’s not a coincidence SDSU got better when Fresno was added back to the conference.   Local rivalries increase fan interest and ticket sales.   Not to mention the historical ties to UTEP. 

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On 5/21/2022 at 11:37 PM, sactowndog said:

The intent was to give New Mexico some long standing rivalries.   You already have Utah State, Wyoming and Air Force.  Quit being greedy. 
 

Part of the decline in New Mexico athletics is due to the destruction of long standing rivalries.  It’s not a coincidence SDSU got better when Fresno was added back to the conference.   Local rivalries increase fan interest and ticket sales.   Not to mention the historical ties to UTEP. 

Oh, I get that.  A previous New Mexico president  (a while back) stated that while it seemed to be a perfect fit to add UTEP, it really wasn't in the best interest of New Mexico.

The current problem with the MWC is that we don't have two divisions, we have two tiny conferences with minimal crossover.  CSU, Wyo, and AFA have almost nothing in common with Fresno, SJSU, and SDSU.  The Border War has sustained it's interest and animosity because CSU and Wyo are so much alike.  We collaborate a lot on research, and it leads to a great competition on the field/court.  CSU has far more in common with UC Davis than any of the Western Division members. 

Honestly, other than in athletic competition, I couldn't give two shits about Fresno State and I can't imagine that there is a Fresno fan out there that gives two shits about CSU.  It's not disrespect, it's just "so what?".  The Rocky Mountain culture and the West Coast culture just don't really care one way or the other about their counterparts.

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On 5/21/2022 at 11:37 PM, sactowndog said:

The intent was to give New Mexico some long standing rivalries.   You already have Utah State, Wyoming and Air Force.  Quit being greedy. 
 

Part of the decline in New Mexico athletics is due to the destruction of long standing rivalries.  It’s not a coincidence SDSU got better when Fresno was added back to the conference.   Local rivalries increase fan interest and ticket sales.   Not to mention the historical ties to UTEP. 

SDSU got better when they hired Steve Fischer and Brady Hoke.  In football it helped when TCU, BYU, and Utah left.  

 

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On 5/21/2022 at 11:14 PM, Headbutt said:

Oh, I get that.  A previous New Mexico president  (a while back) stated that while it seemed to be a perfect fit to add UTEP, it really wasn't in the best interest of New Mexico.

The current problem with the MWC is that we don't have two divisions, we have two tiny conferences with minimal crossover.  CSU, Wyo, and AFA have almost nothing in common with Fresno, SJSU, and SDSU.  The Border War has sustained it's interest and animosity because CSU and Wyo are so much alike.  We collaborate a lot on research, and it leads to a great competition on the field/court.  CSU has far more in common with UC Davis than any of the Western Division members. 

Honestly, other than in athletic competition, I couldn't give two shits about Fresno State and I can't imagine that there is a Fresno fan out there that gives two shits about CSU.  It's not disrespect, it's just "so what?".  The Rocky Mountain culture and the West Coast culture just don't really care one way or the other about their counterparts.

Oh I get that.   It’s one reason I also like Divisions as it captured the essence of the conference.   
 

UC Davis :lol:

Davis is a top 50 research university and an AAU member.  
 

CSU is 148 tied and not a close to an AAU member.   You guys are Washington State, Oregon State or Fresno with a Vet School.  Don’t break your arm trying to pat yourself on the back.   

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On 5/22/2022 at 12:26 AM, Wyobraska said:

SDSU got better when they hired Steve Fischer and Brady Hoke.  In football it helped when TCU, BYU, and Utah left.  

 

For a group that blew up a conference over rivalries you all sure disrespect others.  It would be something to put on such airs if you guys actually won something in the conference.  

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On 5/22/2022 at 7:43 AM, sactowndog said:

Oh I get that.   It’s one reason I also like Divisions as it captured the essence of the conference.   
 

UC Davis :lol:

Davis is a top 50 research university and an AAU member.  
 

CSU is 148 tied and not a close to an AAU member.   You guys are Washington State, Oregon State or Fresno with a Vet School.  Don’t break your arm trying to pat yourself on the back.   

Easy now.  I said "in common", I didn't say equally credentialed.

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On 5/22/2022 at 12:14 AM, Headbutt said:

Oh, I get that.  A previous New Mexico president  (a while back) stated that while it seemed to be a perfect fit to add UTEP, it really wasn't in the best interest of New Mexico.

The current problem with the MWC is that we don't have two divisions, we have two tiny conferences with minimal crossover.  CSU, Wyo, and AFA have almost nothing in common with Fresno, SJSU, and SDSU.  The Border War has sustained it's interest and animosity because CSU and Wyo are so much alike.  We collaborate a lot on research, and it leads to a great competition on the field/court.  CSU has far more in common with UC Davis than any of the Western Division members. 

Honestly, other than in athletic competition, I couldn't give two shits about Fresno State and I can't imagine that there is a Fresno fan out there that gives two shits about CSU.  It's not disrespect, it's just "so what?".  The Rocky Mountain culture and the West Coast culture just don't really care one way or the other about their counterparts.

I've never taken a "Cultural View" of our Conference mates. I like playing the Utags, AFA, and the Pokes simply because the games are competitive.

Not because there is a Regional affiliation/rivalry.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 5/22/2022 at 1:26 AM, Wyobraska said:

SDSU got better when they hired Steve Fischer and Brady Hoke.  In football it helped when TCU, BYU, and Utah left.  

 

I've felt that as well. The Aztecs got more competetive via subtraction. Yes, improved Coaching and funding has helped. 

If the defectors had stuck around, they would be middlin' in FB. Probably would have  added a couple of Texas Schools as well.

The WAC would still be alive !

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 5/22/2022 at 10:16 AM, Spaztecs said:

I've felt that as well. The Aztecs got more competetive via subtraction. Yes, improved Coaching and funding has helped. 

If the defectors had stuck around, they would be middlin' in FB. Probably would have  added a couple of Texas Schools as well.

The WAC would still be alive !

There are very few schools that do well on an island.   It kills recruiting and interest because family and friends can’t drive to the game.   

West Virginia in the Big 12 has not done well.   The Boston College in the ACC. Colorado in the Pac12, Nebraska in the Big are all schools on an island that have suffered.  You rarely see schools on the far periphery of a conference be successful.

In the old MWC SDSU was on an island with no true rivals and suffered as a result.  It was not an exception it was the rule.   

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On 5/22/2022 at 7:46 AM, sactowndog said:

For a group that blew up a conference over rivalries you all sure disrespect others.  It would be something to put on such airs if you guys actually won something in the conference.  

How do we disrespect others?  I'm sorry you are still really mad about the MW-WAC split but I'm just going with facts.  Coaches make or break college programs as well as the conference they are in.  

SDSU was kicking ass in bball way before Fresno joined and they had a few really good seasons with Hoke and Rocky before Fresno joined.  They hired good coaches plain and simple. 

Look at your examples below.  Nebraska has hired shitty coaches.  WV has hired mediocre coaches. CU has hired mediocre coaches.  It isn't just because they don't have a rival.  

I'm not hating on your rivalry and I love that there are 3 Cali schools in the conference but to say that Fresno was the impetus for SDSUs success is crazy.  Let's ask a few SDSU folks, maybe I'm wrong.

@Willie Cee

@Koji VuV

@East Coast Aztec @AztecAlien @SDSUfan @SDSU-Alum2003 @Dirtball @Old_SD_Dude @Aztecs Rising @AztecSU

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On 5/22/2022 at 12:06 PM, Wyobraska said:

How do we disrespect others?  I'm sorry you are still really mad about the MW-WAC split but I'm just going with facts.  Coaches make or break college programs as well as the conference they are in.  

SDSU was kicking ass in bball way before Fresno joined and they had a few really good seasons with Hoke and Rocky before Fresno joined.  They hired good coaches plain and simple. 

Look at your examples below.  Nebraska has hired shitty coaches.  WV has hired mediocre coaches. CU has hired mediocre coaches.  It isn't just because they don't have a rival.  

I'm not hating on your rivalry and I love that there are 3 Cali schools in the conference but to say that Fresno was the impetus for SDSUs success is crazy.  Let's ask a few SDSU folks, maybe I'm wrong.

@Willie Cee

@Koji VuV

@East Coast Aztec @AztecAlien @SDSUfan @SDSU-Alum2003 @Dirtball @Old_SD_Dude @Aztecs Rising @AztecSU

I think if you look at each example as a one off you come to the wrong conclusion.  Also how do you separate being an outlier from being a coach?   Good luck isolating those factors without running a pretty complex regression.   And I didn’t say Fresno was the impetus, I said not being on an island as an outlier was the impetus.   Obviously TCU and Gonzaga are counter example but quite often outlier schools are not successful.  
 

also basketball is a poor example as UNLV has always had a strong and relevant basketball program and so SDSU and UNLV were not outlier’s in that regard and were local rivals that strengthened each program. 

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On 5/21/2022 at 11:37 PM, sactowndog said:

 It’s not a coincidence SDSU got better when Fresno was added back to the conference.  

Yes, it is, and that is not accurate, either.  SDSU began their turn around in 2010.

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On 5/22/2022 at 12:06 PM, Wyobraska said:

How do we disrespect others?  I'm sorry you are still really mad about the MW-WAC split but I'm just going with facts.  Coaches make or break college programs as well as the conference they are in.  

SDSU was kicking ass in bball way before Fresno joined and they had a few really good seasons with Hoke and Rocky before Fresno joined.  They hired good coaches plain and simple. 

Look at your examples below.  Nebraska has hired shitty coaches.  WV has hired mediocre coaches. CU has hired mediocre coaches.  It isn't just because they don't have a rival.  

I'm not hating on your rivalry and I love that there are 3 Cali schools in the conference but to say that Fresno was the impetus for SDSUs success is crazy.  Let's ask a few SDSU folks, maybe I'm wrong.

@Willie Cee

@Koji VuV

@East Coast Aztec @AztecAlien @SDSUfan @SDSU-Alum2003 @Dirtball @Old_SD_Dude @Aztecs Rising @AztecSU

To the extent that was any one team hat was the impetus for SDSU's improvement it would have to be BYU kicking our ass on the regular but not even that wouldn't be accurate. SDSU was having an existential crisis back in the mid 2000's.  Local sports hacks and some university professors and administrators began to question if SDSU should continue  to compete in football after nearly a decade of incompetence, scandal and falling attendance, culminating in Chuck Long's 2-8 debacle and getting crushed by multiple opponents in 08.  If Hoke had failed to show significant progress in 09, the program could have folded and we might not even be having this conversation right now.  Fresno had nothing to do with it.  Fresno's biggest impact was actually in basketball because Randy Holcomb decided to transfer.  He and Tony Bland were Fisher's fist couple of steps towards respectability.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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On 5/22/2022 at 12:06 PM, Wyobraska said:

our rivalry and I love that there are 3 Cali schools in the conference but to say that Fresno was the impetus for SDSUs success is crazy.  Let's ask a few SDSU folks, maybe I'm wrong.

@Willie Cee

@Koji VuV

@East Coast Aztec @AztecAlien @SDSUfan @SDSU-Alum2003 @Dirtball @Old_SD_Dude @Aztecs Rising @AztecSU

Honestly I don't really care about the Fresno State rivalry other than it's fun to play them because they're good more often than not.

I'd rather play Hawaii every year due to the away game travel opportunities (assuming they get their stadium situation figured out).

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