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SalinasSpartan

Roe and Casey soon to be overturned

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:39 AM, NVGiant said:

Why is it certain that the leak came from a "left-wing activist?"

Because it fits his "government is left wing" narrative. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:42 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

You can believe in a system and still want it to be open.  Checks and balances.  Continuous proof of good faith.

 

-Signed someone who has worked on the floor in DC and has friends as clerks as well.

 

ETA:  That last part sounds too much, worked for a State Rep for a summer.

The judicial process only works if it is immune from outside influence.  You are dead wrong here. Absolutely dead wrong.

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:38 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

Anyone that has a belief in our system of justice should be asking whether any draft decision, regardless of context, is appropriate to reveal. 

 

-Signed someone who has appeared in the highest court of multiple states and who has a relative as a clerk on the highest court of a state.

I did, when I heard it.

Drafts of legislation are presented and debated in open air, for the consumption of the public. 

Regulation and development of bureaucratic guidelines have strict transparency guidelines in their formation. 

I think both of those are healthy. I just don't see why a SC decision is special when it comes to revealing the final product. It affects everyone. A black box of law is not in anyone's interest; "the law comes out of my mouth" doesn't work any better for a body of nine instead of one. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:45 AM, happycamper said:

I did, when I heard it.

Drafts of legislation are presented and debated in open air, for the consumption of the public. 

Regulation and development of bureaucratic guidelines have strict transparency guidelines in their formation. 

I think both of those are healthy. I just don't see why a SC decision is special when it comes to revealing the final product. It affects everyone. A black box of law is not in anyone's interest; "the law comes out of my mouth" doesn't work any better for a body of nine instead of one. 

Dead wrong.

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:27 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

If a law clerk leaked this, they will and should be disbarred forever. This type of leak will forever stain the ability of a Court's Justices (both state and federal) to feel secure in their discussions prior to issuing a ruling. With trust gone so is the ability of the court system to properly function.

Maybe he can go live with Snowden.  Conjobs don't like leaks that don't further their agenda, it seems.  One man's patriot is the other's traitor, I guess.

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:46 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

Dead wrong.

Elucidate why. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:44 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

Disagree. There is no evidence this is the work of a 'left wing activist.' This is a red flag on someone or some group of folks that have neglected their obligations that they swore to uphold regardless of philosophical belief. As a legal professional, I am appalled.

I am speculating...looking at the motivations here.

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:46 AM, Jackrabbit said:

This is typical lefty tactics.   Why would a conservative do this?

To bolster the conservative majority and try to prevent them from leaving the fold before the final vote is completed. Conservatives everywhere are celebrating this already. 

I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying that we don't know who leaked this or what their reasons for it were. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 7:45 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

The judicial process only works if it is immune from outside influence.  You are dead wrong here. Absolutely dead wrong.

Transparency doesn't equate to a loss of immunity.  And the actual process and motivations of installing SCOTUS is mired in outside influence, and it is blatant.  Let's not act like the judicial process isn't already tainted, just that if the people are those affected by that notion, at least give us the play-by-play.  

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:45 AM, happycamper said:

I did, when I heard it.

Drafts of legislation are presented and debated in open air, for the consumption of the public. 

Regulation and development of bureaucratic guidelines have strict transparency guidelines in their formation. 

I think both of those are healthy. I just don't see why a SC decision is special when it comes to revealing the final product. It affects everyone. A black box of law is not in anyone's interest; "the law comes out of my mouth" doesn't work any better for a body of nine instead of one. 

Interesting. Maybe you should go into detail on how many times this has happened regarding the SCOTUS. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:25 AM, happycamper said:

It can definitely happen. It's just hard and takes a lot of work. Often the hardest work is in yourself, staying engaged, consistent, and not taking it personal. Frankly the more convincing arguments I've seen haven't been between me and someone else, it's been between two other posters that I have followed with interest. I don't think that I am unique in that respect. 

This.  This is why, despite only recently posting, I have been reading this board for years.  I don't get calling this place an echo chamber.  It's the best place I know to get opposing perspectives on the sh*t we need to know about.

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:47 AM, happycamper said:

Elucidate why. 

I'd suggest you and others that may legitimize the leak to start by reading a history of the Judicial System.  I'd suggest you and such others read the discussions and writings of Madison, Jefferson and Hamilton on the role of the judicial branch.  I'd suggest you and others read the early opinions of John Marshall discussing the role of the courts.  I'd suggest you and others ask yourself if the Court should be just another branch of the executive or the legislative allowing for the thriving dictatorships we see in Russia and other countries.  I'd suggest you and others ask yourself, should we rid ourselves of our history of judicial autonomy in favor of a Trump utopia of supreme rule? I'd suggest you and others ask yourselves what you really believe in.

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On 5/2/2022 at 7:17 PM, Aslowhiteguy said:

In this instance,  half the people were hysterical those rights were ever granted.    

I agree it's not going to change votes or even make much of a difference in the next two elections.   

As of 2018, from the study linked in this thread... https://www.umassmed.edu/news/news-archives/2019/05/who-are-the-1-in-4-american-women-who-choose-abortion/

"Access to safe and legal abortion is an essential part of health care. Most Americans agree. Sixty-four percent of Americans, regardless of pro-choice or pro-life status, would like to see the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision upheld. Another 79% want abortion to remain legal. As a physician, the health and livelihood of my patients depend on it."

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Illegal in all circumstances has not been higher than 23% of the respondents since the Roe decision. The last poll taken in 2021 found only 19% thought it should be illegal in all circumstances. 48% legal under certain circumstances and 32% (33% is the all-time high) legal under any circumstances.

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On 5/3/2022 at 7:44 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

Disagree. There is no evidence this is the work of a 'left wing activist.' This is a red flag on someone or some group of folks that have neglected their obligations that they swore to uphold regardless of philosophical belief. As a legal professional, I am appalled.

You have no evidence or firsthand knowledge of anything at all. All you have is hearsay. Get a real job, leach.

 

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On 5/3/2022 at 7:45 AM, Jackrabbit said:

OK...I would say it was highly probable.  I could be wrong but not likely.

I don't know the likelihood. I can think of myriad reasons why it would be leaked by both conservative and liberal justices and/or their clerks. And yes, Occam's razor should be a significant consideration here. No doubt, the easiest explanation is a liberal clerk leaking this. But I could also see conservatives leaking it to — purposely borrowing a conservative trigger word here — "groom" the public for a ruling that would be seismic in its impact on American life. 

My guess is that this is such a small group of people who have access to a draft like this that we will eventually figure out who was at the bottom of it. So I don't really need to guess.

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:54 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

I'd suggest you and others that may legitimize the leak to start by reading a history of the Judicial System.  I'd suggest you and such others read the discussions and writings of Madison, Jefferson and Hamilton on the role of the judicial branch.  I'd suggest you and others read the early opinions of John Marshall discussing the role of the courts.  I'd suggest you and others ask yourself if the Court should be just another branch of the executive or the legislative allowing for the thriving dictatorships we see in Russia and other countries.  I'd suggest you and others ask yourself, should we rid ourselves of our history of judicial autonomy in favor of a Trump utopia of supreme rule? I'd suggest you and others ask yourselves what you really believe in.

This isn't elucidating why, my guy. See if you can condescend to speak to other posters as if we're people worthy of you time and roughly as intelligent as you are, without the time spent learning, instead of illiterate peons to mock.  

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 5/2/2022 at 7:18 PM, bornontheblue said:

Half the country will be celebrating this ruling, if indeed true 

As of 2018, from the study linked in this thread... https://www.umassmed.edu/news/news-archives/2019/05/who-are-the-1-in-4-american-women-who-choose-abortion/

"Access to safe and legal abortion is an essential part of health care. Most Americans agree. Sixty-four percent of Americans, regardless of pro-choice or pro-life status, would like to see the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision upheld. Another 79% want abortion to remain legal. As a physician, the health and livelihood of my patients depend on it."

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Illegal in all circumstances has not been higher than 23% of the respondents since the Roe decision. The last poll taken in 2021 found only 19% thought it should be illegal in all circumstances. 48% legal under certain circumstances and 32% (33% is the all-time high) legal under any circumstances.

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