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crixus

HOF - Big Papi In, Bonds, Clemens, Sosa & Schilling Miss Again

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https://www.dodgerthoughts.com/2018/10/09/why-mlb-players-dont-bunt-against-the-shift/

Most quality varsity HS pitching in northern Nevada are kids throwing in the low/mid 80s. In Vegas or cali it’s probably mid/high 80s. I just don’t think most fans appreciate the velocity that HS kids can throw these days. Kids playing baseball year around has transformed the game. 

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56 minutes ago, NevadaFan said:

https://www.dodgerthoughts.com/2018/10/09/why-mlb-players-dont-bunt-against-the-shift/

Most quality varsity HS pitching in northern Nevada are kids throwing in the low/mid 80s. In Vegas or cali it’s probably mid/high 80s. I just don’t think most fans appreciate the velocity that HS kids can throw these days. Kids playing baseball year around has transformed the game. 

I don’t buy this guys argument. Bellinger had a terrible year last year. Way more likely he was going to strike out, and a home run was a pipe dream. The guy is fast. Why not lay down a bunt against the shift, get on first, and steal second. 

I saw Roberts with a guy placed on second base in extra innings with no outs pinch hit with Keyshaw as he had no one else to pinch hit. Instead of bunting and moving the guy to third with one out, he has Keyshaw swinging away and he strikes out. That is idiocy. 

You can’t tell me a major league hitter with sufficient practice can’t become a good bunter. Do it enough times and they’ll take the shift off. 

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The game has changed from MLB all the way to the minors. The emphesis teams have decided to concentrate on now is changing the game. You talk to players from the past, they will tell you as well how things have changed, things they aren't teaching anymore or doing anymore. 

Maddux would say he would tell everyone what he would throw, it wasn't a secret. I don't think we will see control pitching like that for a while

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On 1/27/2022 at 11:56 PM, soupslam1 said:

I don’t buy this guys argument. Bellinger had a terrible year last year. Way more likely he was going to strike out, and a home run was a pipe dream. The guy is fast. Why not lay down a bunt against the shift, get on first, and steal second. 

I saw Roberts with a guy placed on second base in extra innings with no outs pinch hit with Keyshaw as he had no one else to pinch hit. Instead of bunting and moving the guy to third with one out, he has Keyshaw swinging away and he strikes out. That is idiocy. 

You can’t tell me a major league hitter with sufficient practice can’t become a good bunter. Do it enough times and they’ll take the shift off. 

I am not necessarily arguing that what you are saying. I mean I get all jacked up when a player tries to beat the shift with a bunt. And I don’t know how many times I’ve watched games the last few years where teams (Giants) had runners on 1st and 2nd w no outs and the next three batters strike out WO trying to bunt or hit a single and were clearly trying to hit a 400ft shot swinging madly at crappy pitches.

What I am arguing is that if it was so easy as fans make it out to be, managers WOULD be bunting. And the velocity of todays pitching makes it extremely difficult. If it was easy… the shift wouldn’t be a thing. The numbers/data doesn’t lie. 

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On 1/27/2022 at 10:46 PM, NevadaFan said:

This. You don’t like the shift use tactics to beat said shift.

Answer me this one. Why do people think a manager/club wouldn’t bunt against the shift if they thought it would get hits and win games? 

Manager/club might favor bunting but not batters. Cuz chicks like homeruns.

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On 1/28/2022 at 11:43 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

Manager/club might favor bunting but not batters. Cuz chicks like homeruns.

MLB would agree with survey results they have been  sending out. But also you have to look at what they are teaching hitters as well as they come up through the ranks. Some players coming up through the ranks have said they have never been taught to bunt.

MLB is trying to get younger crowd to watch and many of that group don't want to see bunts, walks and stuff like that.

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On 1/28/2022 at 6:21 PM, wolfpack1 said:

MLB would agree with survey results they have been  sending out. But also you have to look at what they are teaching hitters as well as they come up through the ranks. Some players coming up through the ranks have said they have never been taught to bunt.

MLB is trying to get younger crowd to watch and many of that group don't want to see bunts, walks and stuff like that.

You are arguing the MLB is putting the kibosh on bunting? I’m pretty sure if you get to professional baseball at 18 or 22 or whenever either you can bunt or you can’t. 

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On 1/28/2022 at 9:40 PM, NevadaFan said:

You are arguing the MLB is putting the kibosh on bunting? I’m pretty sure if you get to professional baseball at 18 or 22 or whenever either you can bunt or you can’t. 

Baseball wants a more exciting game for the younger crowd, which they have admitted to before and bunting, sacrificing and stuff like that doesn't make an exciting game. However if someone goes through the ranks, is not being taught or asked to bunt you don't know if they can or not. 

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On 1/29/2022 at 5:18 PM, wolfpack1 said:

Baseball wants a more exciting game for the younger crowd, which they have admitted to before and bunting, sacrificing and stuff like that doesn't make an exciting game. However if someone goes through the ranks, is not being taught or asked to bunt you don't know if they can or not. 

The answer to your question provided in the article. 

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On 1/26/2022 at 11:58 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

Kelly's all-time non-HOF team (as of 2020)

C: Bill Freehan
1B: Rafael Palmeiro
2B: Lou Whitaker
3B: Dick Allen
SS: Omar Vizquel
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Kenny Lofton
RF: Shoeless Joe Jackson
DH: Hal McRae
---
R-H SP: Roger Clemens
L-H SP: Johan Santana
R-H RP: Dan Quisenberry
L-H RP: Billy Wagner

Palmeiro should absolutely not get into the HOF. He not only juiced, he lied to a congressional committee about it.

Clemens also lied about juicing but not to a congressional committee so he's a bit less slimy but I don't think he should get in either unless he publicly admits he juiced and shows contrition for having lied.

Joe Jackson lied under oath in a court proceeding about having accepted money to throw the 1919 WS. However, he subsequently admitted he accepted $5K and, unlike for Eddie Cicotte, there is virtually no evidence Jackson intentionally underperformed. Jackson’s on the field performance was absolutely HOF worthy and with that sole exception he was always a man of character.  The guy has been kept out of the HOF for decades and I favor creation of a special wing of the hall for guys like that.  (I'd let Pete Rose into that wing posthumously too.)

Bonds clearly juiced and has never admitted to it but OTOH he hasn't patently lied about doing so. I’m on the fence about him getting in.

The other guys on that list all belong in a Hall of the Very Good.

Clemens and Bonds were also 2 of the biggest assholes of all time. Clemens allegedly had an affair with a 15 year old and Bonds had wife beating allegations in addition to steroids. Schilling is an alt-right conspirist who can't keep his mouth shut.

However this is the baseball hall of fame, if you want to judge those 3 on being deplorable people use another avenue to do it. Otherwise, go thru the hall and purge it of every other asshole. I say all 3 belong in.

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On 1/26/2022 at 8:59 AM, retrofade said:

I'm in the double standards are bullshit camp. There were players taking greenies in the 70s and 80s, and those guys are in the Hall of Fame. 

This has just turned into a vendetta against PED users. 

I usually agree with you on things but on this one, you are flat out wrong. Just like doing roids, taking greenies was cheating. However, consumption of greenies was akin to consuming a lot of coffee. Contrary to roids, they had nothing to do with artificially adding muscle tissue. Therefore, although greenies similarly enhanced players' performance on the field, the AMOUNT they impacted performance was minuscule in comparison. Further, it's speculated that almost everybody took greenies back in the day to some extent, even Henry Aaron. In contrast, although a lot of players juiced, the majority did not. Finally, how many players denied eating greenies? To my knowledge none did because none were ever asked because sportswriters turned a blind eye to that. Again in contrast, all these juicers were asked and damn near every one of them other than Canseco lied about it.

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I was listening to a show that was on You Tube Today talking about the Bonds and Hall of Fame. They were having a debate about baseball writers voting for Hall of Fame even though they have been doing it since the 30s. But the interesting part is that they talked about how Bonds and Clemens were sure things on getting to the Hall with the Legends committee either as there are some on the committee who don't want to see Bonds or Clemens in the Hall

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