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Land war in Europe game thread! (with poll)

US Response to Russian Invasion of Ukraine  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the US response to a Russian invasion of Ukraine be?

    • Nuke 'em
    • Full conventional military response, troops, tanks, fighters etc take part in defense of Ukraine
    • Air/missile strikes against key Russian military targets
    • Economic embargo of Russia
    • Economic sanctions against Russia
    • Cutoff diplomatic relations with Russia
    • Nothing.


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27 minutes ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

I know what you mean.  It's potentially WWIII if we make the wrong move. 

It's probably best to just keep bleeding Putin and let the people of Russia clean up their own mess.  

 

Either way though.  One can make the argument that if we stand by and do nothing that the Russians will be confident that they can retake the Baltics, or China move on Taiwan, which would be a far more dangerous DEFCON situation than Ukraine.

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On 3/19/2022 at 3:37 PM, CPslograd said:

Either way though.  One can make the argument that if we stand by and do nothing that the Russians will be confident that they can retake the Baltics, or China move on Taiwan, which would be a far more dangerous DEFCON situation than Ukraine.

There are no good answers here.  

The way things have gone so far,  I'm not sure how anyone could feel emboldened by what they've seen over the past couple of weeks. 

 

 

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"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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My sense is that if Putin can't get the Chechens who are being called in to care about Ukraine and if he doesn't call up some of his best troops who have been so far left behind in Mother Russia, this adventure of his is going to become a debacle of historical proportions for him.

Nikita Krushchev acted like a bully after taking over for Stalin in 1953, once famously saying to the West, "we will bury you" and as Putin is doing now, Krushchev hinted at being willing to use nuclear weapons. However, in combination with other things, the Cuban Missile Crisis was such an embarrassment that not long after he was given a dacha and put out to pasture with orders to keep his mouth shut for the rest of his life so as not to further embarrass the Soviet Union. Although Putin sure won't need anybody to give him a big house, I can see oligarchs and military leaders eventually persuading him to "retire" and go live quietly on his $500 million yacht and, if he knows what's good for him, to stay out of politics forever.

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On 3/19/2022 at 3:37 PM, CPslograd said:

Either way though.  One can make the argument that if we stand by and do nothing that the Russians will be confident that they can retake the Baltics, or China move on Taiwan, which would be a far more dangerous DEFCON situation than Ukraine.

Yeah, ultimately it’s Putin’s choice if he wants WWIII. If he has the money, he’ll keep testing us until we push back. That’s why you draw the line way ahead of time, and if he crosses it you go 110% at him. He doesn’t want his wannabe Russian Empire obliterated. People say he has more nukes, but that’s not the right stat.

We have a bit more deployable nukes that Russia does, meaning nukes that are able to be used instantly, not nukes just stored away and not available anytime soon. IIRC we have about 1775, and Russia about 1700, so pretty close. But I don’t think a large number of his would launch or even detonate because of lack of maintenance and corrosion protection. 

kat.jpg

 

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https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-19

tl/dr The new ISW assessment is that the initial Russian campaign can no longer succeed at achieving it's goals. Their strategy of plugging small units across all fronts won't be enough for them to seize the major cities. They must change strategy or are doomed to failure. The blitzkrieg phase of the conflict is over, stalemate is next. Ukraine is about to become Verdun. 

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We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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On 3/19/2022 at 4:52 PM, azgreg said:

 

I mean, its not completely wrong. Ukraine had enough of the Russian puppets. What they have isn't squeaky clean, but they are moving away. Russia though, those that opposed Putin ended up dead or behind bars, with only a minority willing to show outrage and want change.

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32 minutes ago, CPslograd said:

Either way though.  One can make the argument that if we stand by and do nothing that the Russians will be confident that they can retake the Baltics, or China move on Taiwan, which would be a far more dangerous DEFCON situation than Ukraine.

Yep.  

This pretty much verbalizes my point though I would add Poland to the list.   Aggressively arming Ukraine and doing everything possible to stop Putin in his tracks there (including providing surreptitious support in training etc) is to me the least risky strategy if you are worried about WW3.   
 

it’s kind of like investing.  You can keep your money in a bank account but you will then lose it to inflation.  The most risk adverse path is rarely the least risky in any endeavor.   

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On 3/19/2022 at 5:41 PM, azgreg said:

 

Russian hypersonic aren't like ours or the Chinese.  They are just versions of their iskander ground based cruise missile strapped to a mig.  Not even sure they exceed Mach 3.

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On 3/19/2022 at 4:08 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-19

tl/dr The new ISW assessment is that the initial Russian campaign can no longer succeed at achieving it's goals. Their strategy of plugging small units across all fronts won't be enough for them to seize the major cities. They must change strategy or are doomed to failure. The blitzkrieg phase of the conflict is over, stalemate is next. Ukraine is about to become Verdun. 

Not entirely. The minute Putin uses any kind of significant gas attack, Putin may have just as well have done it in Poland because it would unleash the near equivalent of Article 5. The world isn’t going to sit around and watch women and children have their lungs fill with fluid and suffocate to death on live TV. The more brutal Putin gets, the closer he gets to the unleashing of the fvcking fury on his sorry ass. 

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kat.jpg

 

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On 3/19/2022 at 4:56 PM, son of a gun said:

I thought you were Russian to the kitchen because you were Hungry for some Turkey.

Yeah, but if you’re Russian into the kitchen too fast, you might knock the delicate China off the counter and it would make a terrible noise hitting the floor, but this kind of China would sound like ding! dong! bong! bing! OK, sorry that was racially insensitive. I’m going to hell. 

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On 3/19/2022 at 4:50 PM, HR_Poke said:

Russian hypersonic aren't like ours or the Chinese.  They are just versions of their iskander ground based cruise missile strapped to a mig.  Not even sure they exceed Mach 3.

The one we’re working on is supposed to possibly go as fast as Mach 20 which is about 15,500 mph. 

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kat.jpg

 

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