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Land war in Europe game thread! (with poll)

US Response to Russian Invasion of Ukraine  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the US response to a Russian invasion of Ukraine be?

    • Nuke 'em
    • Full conventional military response, troops, tanks, fighters etc take part in defense of Ukraine
    • Air/missile strikes against key Russian military targets
    • Economic embargo of Russia
    • Economic sanctions against Russia
    • Cutoff diplomatic relations with Russia
    • Nothing.


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On 5/25/2023 at 5:59 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Or if he had beaten Obama?

There could be an argument for that for sure. I’ve always liked John. Anything, I mean anything is better than Trump or DeSantis. 
 

I’ve also said my piece on not wanting Biden to run again as well. Joe has done some good things, far less toxic but it’s time to retire. 

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On 5/25/2023 at 6:04 PM, utenation said:

There could be an argument for that for sure. I’ve always liked John. Anything, I mean anything is better than Trump or DeSantis. 
 

I’ve also said my piece on not wanting Biden to run again as well. Joe has done some good things, far less toxic but it’s time to retire. 

Oh I'm just saying if McCain beats Obama....Trump never happens.  (foreign policy probably a lot stronger than now as well).

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On 5/25/2023 at 5:59 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Or if he had beaten Obama?

It's hard to say.  McCain had his flaws, his temperament could get off at times, and his executive skills were, well, I'm not sure if we know.  He leaned into hawkishness, but he was a full blown institutionalist.  He'd have delegated like Reagan on much.  I suspect he would have waded through the early Great Recession like Obama.  Some fiscal stimulus, no doubt, but rely on monetary policy. 

His health care policy plan was iffy.  He wanted to end the tax exemption of health care benefits and replace w/tax credits as a means of subsidizing insurance.  This stemmed from earlier policy proposals to break the link between employment and health insurance (employer provided).   The latter is not bad in the abstract, and Obamacare had its issues, but it was going to dislocate a lot of the insured. 

McCain got props for his middle class '00 tax proposals, but '08 and later voting for the Ryan plan in '17.  Light years better than the last Republican president, but I'm not sure how he would have responded to all those foreign events from '09 through '16. Definitely tougher on Putin. Not sure about Georgia, but Crimea and the east of Ukraine certainly harsher w/support for arms. 

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On 5/25/2023 at 4:58 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Even back then, the vitriol against him and Romney was dumb

I donated to McCain.  But after loosing to Bush he adopted the emerging dominant  social conservative positions of the party versus the libertarian leaning positions he had always held.   
 

Neither he nor Romney are authoritarians like Trump and DeSantis but the judges they would have appointed instead of Sotomayor and Kagan would have radically changed the direction of the country.   

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On 5/25/2023 at 4:58 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Even back then, the vitriol against him and Romney was dumb

John sold out to be the candidate and was not who he was or grew up as.  Same with Mitt who created the forerunner of ObamaCare in Mass.   The party shifted radically from the 3 part: Libertarian, Conservative, Rockefeller Republican to basically the authoritarian party it is today.  By contributing to this switch instead of fighting it they both contributed to what we see in the GOP now: 

A southern based neo-fascist party built on religion and big business. 

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On 5/25/2023 at 7:58 AM, retrofade said:

Then why did you mention them directly?

I recognize ukraine is just trying  to survive but their govt is corrupt as hell.

We are the stupid ones.

Show me in history where we fought and died for a corrupt govt and it ended well. 

We are simply and gradually helping them escalate the war until we are fully involved.

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On 5/26/2023 at 11:42 AM, Jackrabbit said:

I recognize ukraine is just trying  to survive but their govt is corrupt as hell.

We are the stupid ones.

Show me in history where we fought and died for a corrupt govt and it ended well. 

We are simply and gradually helping them escalate the war until we are fully involved.

You are quite the story teller. What part of we haven’t fought and died in Ukraine yet are you having a hard time understanding?

Not everything in life is a conspiracy theory Mr. Rabbit.  But you certainly love going down rabbit holes. 

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On 5/26/2023 at 10:42 AM, Jackrabbit said:

I recognize ukraine is just trying  to survive but their govt is corrupt as hell.

We are the stupid ones.

Show me in history where we fought and died for a corrupt govt and it ended well.

We are simply and gradually helping them escalate the war until we are fully involved.

Umm the American one and the elites that run it?

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We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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On 5/26/2023 at 12:49 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Umm the American one and the elites that run it?

Jack is trying way too hard to drag American soldiers into the Ukraine war.  He’s dying to say, I told you so. Biden is a piece of shit type talk. 
 

Meanwhile, zero non U.S. Embassy troops have been deployed and nobody sent over there has died. 
 

And corrupt governments is a very loose term anywhere on the planet. 

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On 5/26/2023 at 11:58 AM, utenation said:

Jack is trying way too hard to drag American soldiers into the Ukraine war.  He’s dying to say, I told you so. Biden is a piece of shit type talk. 
 

Meanwhile, zero non U.S. Embassy troops have been deployed and nobody sent over there has died. 
 

And corrupt governments is a very loose term anywhere on the planet. 

Jack is easy to attack because he gets his information from stupid liars and everybody here piles in on him for it. I almost feel bad but seriously, what good is it to be the world’s economic and military superpower if you can’t help a smaller country defend itself against a larger one intent on sniffing them out of existence.

It’s true, we do have Americans soldiers there to protect Americans. And to do that it’s definitely helpful to give the much larger homegrown forces some free advice. We are exceptionally good at this sort of thing being the world’s hegemon and all. Our country has only been attacked at a warlike scale twice since 1812, and the only boots on the ground were the terrorists on 9/11 and maybe a few Japanese pilots, all of whose boots were in pieces.

We all know Ukraine is corrupt. They came out of an evil system and we encouraged a different sort of corruption in order to make them richer and more like ourselves. They wanted it and their asshole neighbor, who we also tried to do the same thing with, hated it. Unless you’re some dove loving dirty hippie that thinks there’s nothing no one should ever fight for anywhere at anytime, I don’t understand how it can be said America is not acting in the good here. The bullies in the world don’t care what the hippies think. Sure Ukraine is corrupt, so what. The goddamn French are on their fifth republic and a culture as old, venerable, and unique as theirs are still trying to figure this governing thing out. You have to ask yourself Jack, what do you want the world to look like?

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We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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On 5/26/2023 at 1:26 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Jack is easy to attack because he gets his information from stupid liars and everybody here piles in on him for it. I almost feel bad but seriously, what good is it to be the world’s economic and military superpower if you can’t help a smaller country defend itself against a larger one intent on sniffing them out of existence.

It’s true, we do have Americans soldiers there to protect Americans. And to do that it’s definitely helpful to give the much larger homegrown forces some free advice. We are exceptionally good at this sort of thing being the world’s hegemon and all. Our country has only been attacked at a warlike scale twice since 1812, and the only boots on the ground were the terrorists on 9/11 and maybe a few Japanese pilots, all of whose boots were in pieces.

We all know Ukraine is corrupt. They came out of an evil system and we encouraged a different sort of corruption in order to make them richer and more like ourselves. They wanted it and their asshole neighbor, who we also tried to do the same thing with, hated it. Unless you’re some dove loving dirty hippie that thinks there’s nothing no one should ever fight for anywhere at anytime, I don’t understand how it can be said America is not acting in the good here. The bullies in the world don’t care what the hippies think. Sure Ukraine is corrupt, so what. The goddamn French are on their fifth republic and a culture as old, venerable, and unique as theirs are still trying to figure this governing thing out. You have to ask yourself Jack, what do you want the world to look like?

Meh…. I have zero sympathy for Ride or Die MAGAs like Jack. 
 

His mind is made up before he even starts a conversation. He’d rather try to drag people to the deep end of his conspiracy pool more than get to the bottom of an issue. 

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On 5/26/2023 at 10:42 AM, Jackrabbit said:

I recognize ukraine is just trying  to survive but their govt is corrupt as hell.

We are the stupid ones.

Show me in history where we fought and died for a corrupt govt and it ended well. 

We are simply and gradually helping them escalate the war until we are fully involved.

if we're ever "fully involved", then you can come back and say neener neener...

and Bob will suck yer dick

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On 5/26/2023 at 1:26 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Jack is easy to attack because he gets his information from stupid liars and everybody here piles in on him for it. I almost feel bad but seriously, what good is it to be the world’s economic and military superpower if you can’t help a smaller country defend itself against a larger one intent on sniffing them out of existence.

It’s true, we do have Americans soldiers there to protect Americans. And to do that it’s definitely helpful to give the much larger homegrown forces some free advice. We are exceptionally good at this sort of thing being the world’s hegemon and all. Our country has only been attacked at a warlike scale twice since 1812, and the only boots on the ground were the terrorists on 9/11 and maybe a few Japanese pilots, all of whose boots were in pieces.

We all know Ukraine is corrupt. They came out of an evil system and we encouraged a different sort of corruption in order to make them richer and more like ourselves. They wanted it and their asshole neighbor, who we also tried to do the same thing with, hated it. Unless you’re some dove loving dirty hippie that thinks there’s nothing no one should ever fight for anywhere at anytime, I don’t understand how it can be said America is not acting in the good here. The bullies in the world don’t care what the hippies think. Sure Ukraine is corrupt, so what. The goddamn French are on their fifth republic and a culture as old, venerable, and unique as theirs are still trying to figure this governing thing out. You have to ask yourself Jack, what do you want the world to look like?

To which liars are you referring to? General Westmoreland?

I want a country that is feared (yes feared) enough where the bad guys won't start shit.  Bad guys don't respect, they fear.   We are not that country anymore.

 I want a country that is generous and a leader.   It's too late for Ukraine, we already fukd that one up

 

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On 5/26/2023 at 12:48 PM, utenation said:

Meh…. I have zero sympathy for Ride or Die MAGAs like Jack. 
 

His mind is made up before he even starts a conversation. He’d rather try to drag people to the deep end of his conspiracy pool more than get to the bottom of an issue. 

And he's dumb as dirt...

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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On 5/26/2023 at 3:57 PM, Jackrabbit said:

To which liars are you referring to? General Westmoreland?

I want a country that is feared (yes feared) enough where the bad guys won't start shit.  Bad guys don't respect, they fear.   We are not that country anymore.

 I want a country that is generous and a leader.   It's too late for Ukraine, we already fukd that one up

 

Why would you say we fvcked the Ukraine thing up?  Maybe, because your dear orange leader isn’t leading the charge there and making decisions?

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