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DOJ indicts Oath Keepers leader, members on seditious conspiracy charges

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Just now, SalinasSpartan said:

So, your politics about the black community were entirely shaped by meeting one black guy who recommended one particular podcast? 

Lol. No. I've been at it for years, man. Are your politics completely shaped by MSNBC and the NY Times? Really going to ask me that? Seems juvenile...

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5 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

So, your politics about the black community were entirely shaped by meeting one black guy who recommended one particular podcast? 

The fact that he’s even thought about it at all beyond the surface level is actually impressive for someone of his political bent. Gotta give him credit for that. 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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4 minutes ago, youngredbullfan said:

It always intrigues me when people (rightfully) recognize the systemic and historical origins of racism and poverty, but seem to think that things like individual action will solve them. 

I will say that at least you’re honest about the issue, which is more than one could say about most conservatives. Just completely misguided to a counterproductive extent about potential solutions. 
 

Doesn’t it follow that systemic problems caused by capital and the government need systemic solutions? Maybe your own misconceptions about the (admittedly flawed) War on Poverty and your generally conservative worldview blinds you to this kind of thing. 

1) not a conservative.

2) firmly believe capitalism is, and always be the primary force of getting people out of poverty.

3) I want a new black wall street.

4) I'm not misguided. The vast, vast majority of problems for rural poor and urban residents have not been caused by "conservatism". Decade, after decade, after decade. There hasn't been a smidge of conservatism in urban areas in over 70 years, maybe more. And things are getting worse, not better.

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1 hour ago, scounty said:

Sure. From her history, she grew up in an improvised neighborhood. She quickly recognized that the government intervention produced a continual cycle of poverty. When young men, particularly exposed to capitalism through the drug trade, where they could cloth, feed, make money, she realized it was backwards. She's spent her career advocating capitalism in urban neighborhoods as a way to climb up the ladder. She detests government intervention to "lift up the neighborhood" and constantly pounds on the issue of individual rights and the ability to "escape" through business, entrepreneur endeavors and self reliance. It's a small but growing community that is focusing on local communities and pointing out the destruction caused by decades of poor policy, none of which, implemented by the right wing. Zero of them.

She has a good background on Lilly white Republicans who essentially forsake the black community in the name of receiving donations from the business class to the detrimate of the black community that still lingers today.

Government intervention created much of today's white wealth, so why do we then say "of course it can't work" today? That seems kinda disingenuous to me

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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4 minutes ago, grandjean87 said:

She told everyone five years back! 

Emotionalism is ubiquitous.  It works in media and films which is why it’s seemingly everywhere.  I don’t fall for it at least some of the time. 

She has not been invited back to CPAC, by the way.

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15 minutes ago, scounty said:

Lol. No. I've been at it for years, man. Are your politics completely shaped by MSNBC and the NY Times? Really going to ask me that? Seems juvenile...

Yes, I am really going to ask you that. I’ve never seen someone lean so heavy in to this, “my favorite black podcaster said X, so clearly that view is correct!” Style of argument. 
 

Also, I don’t have cable and don’t subscribe to The NY Times, so it’d be hard for those to shape my politics.

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2 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Government intervention created much of today's white wealth, so why do we then say "of course it can't work" today? That seems kinda disingenuous to me

All whites capitalized on that? Don't divided by race, divide by access to government. I seriously, seriously hate using this comparison because he is unelected and should generally be left alone to die a terrible death but...

Why is Hunter Biden wealthy? There is only a single answer to this question.

I can apply it to the Bush family as well. Their wealth is derived from the governments financial decisions in the early 20th century.

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2 minutes ago, scounty said:

All whites capitalized on that? Don't divided by race, divide by access to government. I seriously, seriously hate using this comparison because he is unelected and should generally be left alone to die a terrible death but...

Why is Hunter Biden wealthy? There is only a single answer to this question.

I can apply it to the Bush family as well. Their wealth is derived from the governments financial decisions in the early 20th century.

He didn’t say “all whites”.

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2 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Yes, I am really going to ask you that. I’ve never seen someone lean so heavy in to this, “my favorite black podcaster said X, so clearly that view is correct!” Style of argument. 
 

Also, I don’t have cable and don’t subscribe to The NY Times, so it’d be hard for those to shape my politics.

I've got a bit more than just that regarding multiple issues. Because you don't like what I have to say, you assume it's my be all, end all.

It's not even race related as a whole, it's more economics and policy driven beliefs. Want more black writings to look into as a suggestion? Frederick Douglass, Malcolm Little, Langston Hughes...need more? 

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5 minutes ago, scounty said:

1) not a conservative.

2) firmly believe capitalism is, and always be the primary force of getting people out of poverty.

3) I want a new black wall street.

4) I'm not misguided. The vast, vast majority of problems for rural poor and urban residents have not been caused by "conservatism". Decade, after decade, after decade. There hasn't been a smidge of conservatism in urban areas in over 70 years, maybe more. And things are getting worse, not better.

1. That's interesting. Libertarian?

2. Uh, this isn't really true on its face. You could argue that Capitalism has improved the material conditions of poor people historically, but it doesn't actually eliminate the poor as a class. In fact, in many cases, it perpetuates and creates new, vicious systems of poverty and despair. Keep in mind I'm not saying that it's better or worse than any other systems, only that it quite apparently does not eliminate poverty. 

3. I mean, cool I guess. But you do know that when Black Wall Street existed black people overall were more poor, destitute, and sick than they are today, right? A talented tenth will never fix broad systemic issues.

4. "Conservatism" and "liberalism" are sort of simplistic ways to look at these issues. A capitalist realist neoliberalism that spans American political ideology was the main policy driver that led to deindustrialization and urban decay. Cities exist within larger ecosystems of capital and governmental control. "Liberal" city governments or "conservative" city governments are not the sole determinants of outcomes within those cities.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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3 minutes ago, scounty said:

I've got a bit more than just that regarding multiple issues. Because you don't like what I have to say, you assume it's my be all, end all.

It's not even race related as a whole, it's more economics and policy driven beliefs. Want more black writings to look into as a suggestion? Frederick Douglass, Malcolm Little, Langston Hughes...need more? 

I’m not quite sure what I need to say to make you understand that I don’t care if you cite black people to back up your positions. 

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2 minutes ago, youngredbullfan said:

1. That's interesting. Libertarian?

2. Uh, this isn't really true on its face. You could argue that Capitalism has improved the material conditions of poor people historically, but it doesn't actually eliminate the poor as a class. In fact, in many cases, it perpetuates and creates new, vicious systems of poverty and despair. Keep in mind I'm not saying that it's better or worse than any other systems, only that it quite apparently does not eliminate poverty. 

3. I mean, cool I guess. But you do know that when Black Wall Street existed black people overall were more poor, destitute, and sick than they are today, right? A talented tenth will never fix broad systemic issues.

4. "Conservatism" and "liberalism" are sort of simplistic ways to look at these issues. A capitalist realist neoliberalism that spans American political ideology was the main policy driver that led to deindustrialization and urban decay. Cities exist within larger ecosystems of capital and governmental control. "Liberal" city governments or "conservative" city governments are not the sole determinants of outcomes within those cities.

1) yes

2) nothing eliminates poor people or class definition. Capitalism has proven time and time again to move people from that class to the middle or the top the quickest. Business, sports, music. There is a particular economic system that makes everyone equal, though.

3) yes, but that wasn't exclusive. It was a lot of people from all backgrounds. I just want equal access to capital for minorities, particularly the black population.

4) globalization and technological advances contribute, yes, but there is no discounting that economic policy in urban areas over decades haven't been harmful on multiple levels. Thinks that could have been remedied decades ago that still persist today. The absolute mistake of project housing for instance.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

I’m not quite sure what I need to say to make you understand that I don’t care if you cite black people to back up your positions. 

Would you prefer I cite Marx and link you to tomorrows speech by Xi at the world economic forum?

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27 minutes ago, scounty said:

1) yes

2) nothing eliminates poor people or class definition. Capitalism has proven time and time again to move people from that class to the middle or the top the quickest. Business, sports, music. There is a particular economic system that makes everyone equal, though.

3) yes, but that wasn't exclusive. It was a lot of people from all backgrounds. I just want equal access to capital for minorities, particularly the black population.

4) globalization and technological advances contribute, yes, but there is no discounting that economic policy in urban areas over decades haven't been harmful on multiple levels. Thinks that could have been remedied decades ago that still persist today. The absolute mistake of project housing for instance.

 

 

 

 

1. I see. That explains your ability to actually have a conversation, as opposed to the average conservative who would be measuring skulls by now.

2. Again here, you're talking about individuals, not systems. Capitalism perpetuates and creates certain kinds of pernicious poverty. You can't say it eliminates it in a meaningful sense. I'm not making a value judgement of it opposed to something else. Other economic systems can also create their own idiosyncratic forms of poverty and misery based on material conditions. 

3. Not exclusive, but black people were, and continue to be, overrepresented in those unfortunate categories due to historical circumstances. All of it is tied to poverty, a thing which many white folks in the postwar period were given an opportunity to escape via military service and homeownership. Black people were not as fortunate. 

4. Sure economic policy has been harmful. But that economic policy was completely driven by capital. From the Great Migration to white flight to deindustrialization, the imperatives of capital drove every development in American cities. No city government in existence created a moat, built walls, and kept a socialist agrarian utopia in there. All of them, liberal, conservative, whatever, were given the hand they were dealt by macroeconomic factors and systems out of their control. Their relative success or failure in mitigating those circumstances can be critiqued, but ultimately, the circumstances themselves couldn't have, and can't, be solved by city planning. 40 Republican mayors of Detroit or Chicago or Cleveland or anywhere else couldn't have prevented the outsourcing of manufacturing to the third world and developing nations, for example.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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24 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

I’d prefer you make your own arguments. 

Xi would send Marx to a reeducation camp

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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