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RI politician: CRT made my black friend hates me because I'm white

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On 12/29/2021 at 3:34 PM, Bob said:

Obama made racism cool again and it hasn't died down

Obama made racism cool by being President ?

:lol:

Try Racism became cool because most R Whites lost their phucking minds when he became Prez.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 12/30/2021 at 7:17 AM, NMpackalum said:

This is absolutely an exaggeration. There are so many problems with the Affordable Care Act that were clearly visible and predictable by anyone but partisans, but rammed through on a cult of personality in part because he was black. Many of the goals were well intentioned, like Medicaid expansion, but still haven’t panned out despite fundamentally changing the healthcare environment. Ultimately the winners from Obamacare are the insurance companies. When people go nuts, it’s not necessarily because they’re racists.

Amerikkka lost its racist mind whennhe got elected. Obama care was an extension of that process.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 12/30/2021 at 10:41 AM, soupslam1 said:

Because he was black or because they didn’t like his version of healthcare? 
 

 

Think hard.

Really hard.

Obama was elected in 2008. Birtherism was the hot buton issue during the GE and and after the Election. The so called Tea Party/Freedom Caucus drove that faux issue just like they drive the faux CRT crap.

Enrollment in  militias and fringe extremist groups went through the roof in 2009 over those issues. With the introduction of the ACA in 2009 the Freedom Caucus used it as wedge issue and even walked out on the process further villifying Obama, equal rights and the Right/Left divide in the process.

White and racist Amerikkka keep widening the divide yet keep blaming it on the Left.

 

 

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 12/30/2021 at 12:43 PM, NMpackalum said:

Free stuff that other people pay for is always popular. We can debate the pros and cons on some other thread if you're able to critically assess the programs. Popularity doesn't equate to good policy. 

Cult of personality-absolutely. If Biden was the president, do you think it passes before you know what's in it?

Its not free.

Take another shot at #RevisionistHistory

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 12/30/2021 at 3:58 PM, sactowndog said:

True though their are lots of good parts also.  The bad parts are not because of Obama but because of the many deals cut by Reid to get it done and through a Congress which is bought and paid by lobbyists.   

US healthcare is a mess.  Just did a paper on it for economics and we have incorrect incentives all over it.  Preventative care is highly elastic and yet needed for long term care and critical care in highly inelastic and we have no model that restricts suppliers from taking steps to eliminate competition.   

Our Health Care system always has been and always will be predatory.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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Im curious how one pays 25k on their medical when plans are required to cap out of pocket at $18.5k per family (iirc)? I've ran the finances for over 25 companies since ACA went into effect and honestly have yet to see any of the horror stories claimed in this thread.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

Im curious how one pays 25k on their medical when plans are required to cap out of pocket at $18.5k per family (iirc)? I've ran the finances for over 25 companies since ACA went into effect and honestly have yet to see any of the horror stories claimed in this thread.

Quit messing with the anti-ACA nartative.

:waiting:

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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1 hour ago, AztecSU said:

Im curious how one pays 25k on their medical when plans are required to cap out of pocket at $18.5k per family (iirc)? I've ran the finances for over 25 companies since ACA went into effect and honestly have yet to see any of the horror stories claimed in this thread.

I was including the premiums? The cap only applys to co pays and deductibles.

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3 hours ago, AztecSU said:

Im curious how one pays 25k on their medical when plans are required to cap out of pocket at $18.5k per family (iirc)? I've ran the finances for over 25 companies since ACA went into effect and honestly have yet to see any of the horror stories claimed in this thread.

And that's IF insurance will cover it. Plenty of treatments aren't part of the basic plan. (Dental, Vision). What you pay on what's not covered doesn't count towards the cap. Neither is prescription costs (which are high for many meds).

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1 hour ago, AztecSU said:

Im curious how one pays 25k on their medical when plans are required to cap out of pocket at $18.5k per family (iirc)? I've ran the finances for over 25 companies since ACA went into effect and honestly have yet to see any of the horror stories claimed in this thread.

Max out of pocket is different from max premium. Cadillac health plans are premiums over 27K

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2 hours ago, Spaztecs said:

Quit messing with the anti-ACA nartative.

:waiting:

Annual premiums for family coverage this year reached an average $22,221, with workers contributing an average $5,969 toward the cost and employers paying the rest, the report says. The amount is 4% more than 2020.   per CNBC.

Also consider that the deductible for my insurance was $750 and now $4500 per person. Max out of pocket for family is 9k.

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35 minutes ago, Bob said:

To get healthcare on the marketplace for my family was well over 2k month premiums. Don't even remember, honestly. 2.5-3k?  Insane.

Just checked the WA exchange to see what mine would cost (family of four). It seems like most employers are paying way more than the highest premium here for coverage similar to the bottom of the barrel plans.  Is employer-funded health insurance market covering the bottom line for these companies to offer better plans for less on the exchange?  Employers get less bang for their buck than persons on the exchange, so why not just pay your employees and forget having health coverage as a benefit.  Gives them more choice as well.

Most expensive is $1700 per month.

image.png.56ac433b89df4c25b25c0f9dde1fdc18.png

Least expensive option is $836.

image.png.8a0beb3c6ca064648b696fa5da3cb18b.png

 

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5 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Just checked the WA exchange to see what mine would cost (family of four). It seems like most employers are paying way more than the highest premium here for coverage similar to the bottom of the barrel plans.  Is employer-funded health insurance market covering the bottom line for these companies to offer better plans for less on the exchange?  Employers get less bang for their buck than persons on the exchange, so why not just pay your employees and forget having health coverage as a benefit.  Gives them more choice as well.

Most expensive is $1700 per month.

image.png.56ac433b89df4c25b25c0f9dde1fdc18.png

Least expensive option is $836.

image.png.8a0beb3c6ca064648b696fa5da3cb18b.png

 

If you tie jobs to healthcare, how can they quit?  Even if it is cheaper, I am guessing corporations may use it to lower their tax basis, so it is a wash.   Giving people the money directly benefits the workers, not the businesses.  We can't have that.

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2 hours ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Just checked the WA exchange to see what mine would cost (family of four). It seems like most employers are paying way more than the highest premium here for coverage similar to the bottom of the barrel plans.  Is employer-funded health insurance market covering the bottom line for these companies to offer better plans for less on the exchange?  Employers get less bang for their buck than persons on the exchange, so why not just pay your employees and forget having health coverage as a benefit.  Gives them more choice as well.

Most expensive is $1700 per month.

image.png.56ac433b89df4c25b25c0f9dde1fdc18.png

Least expensive option is $836.

image.png.8a0beb3c6ca064648b696fa5da3cb18b.png

 

I remember that Montana made a free clinic in Helena for state employees. Not insurance - they just directly hired a staff and let people go whenever. saved them a ton of money. IDK why companies like google, apple, ford don't do the same thing, have effective "student health" complexes at their work that cover a bunch of health care. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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6 hours ago, Spaztecs said:

Amerikkka lost its racist mind whennhe got elected. Obama care was an extension of that process.

Disliking Obamacare was not an extension of racism.  There were valid reasons to dislike Obamacare as well as the lies he told us in order to sell it to the masses.  

 

 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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3 hours ago, East Coast Aztec said:

If you tie jobs to healthcare, how can they quit?  Even if it is cheaper, I am guessing corporations may use it to lower their tax basis, so it is a wash.   Giving people the money directly benefits the workers, not the businesses.  We can't have that.

I would bet every business would be happy to get rid of employer sponsored health care if there was an equal alternative. I carry it for my employees and myself because there are no primnary care physician in my town that take ACA plans because they pay Medicaid rates to providers which most agree is a loss leader for private physicians. An exchange plan for a family of 4 with 40 yo parents comes to $17100 per year if not subsidized. For the privilege of not being able to get an appointment. It's not always about advantages for the businesses.  

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2 hours ago, NMpackalum said:

I would bet every business would be happy to get rid of employer sponsored health care if there was an equal alternative. I carry it for my employees and myself because there are no primnary care physician in my town that take ACA plans because they pay Medicaid rates to providers which most agree is a loss leader for private physicians. An exchange plan for a family of 4 with 40 yo parents comes to $17100 per year if not subsidized. For the privilege of not being able to get an appointment. It's not always about advantages for the businesses.  

Corporations would disagree.  Perhaps small businesses that don't hurt for labor, but can't opt out at X size even if they don't  like it, but there are reasons it is legislatively written.  If corporations and their lobbyists didn't find a benefit for it, it wouldn't exist.  Meanwhile, similar to student loans, and probably ACA itself, it aided in the increase of cost of care.  Keeping low-wages by dangli g healthcare is a great tactic.  Hell, i know retirees who unload planes at RDU for no pay, but great benefits.  It's a great racket.

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3 hours ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Corporations would disagree.  Perhaps small businesses that don't hurt for labor, but can't opt out at X size even if they don't  like it, but there are reasons it is legislatively written.  If corporations and their lobbyists didn't find a benefit for it, it wouldn't exist.  Meanwhile, similar to student loans, and probably ACA itself, it aided in the increase of cost of care.  Keeping low-wages by dangli g healthcare is a great tactic.  Hell, i know retirees who unload planes at RDU for no pay, but great benefits.  It's a great racket.

To an extent, I would agree that for service companies that need low cost labor, it's probably a strategy that has served their purpose. Plenty of people use Starbucks and Walmart for their insurance benefits. It really isn't sustainable even for them and it's those companies that are investing in their own healthcare systems to defray the ever increasing costs. If they could get comparable coverage with a public option, they could raise their base pay 20 percent. I'm not sure which legislation you're referring to as beneficial for corporations though. Opting out is for smaller companies benefit.

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10 hours ago, NMpackalum said:

To an extent, I would agree that for service companies that need low cost labor, it's probably a strategy that has served their purpose. Plenty of people use Starbucks and Walmart for their insurance benefits. It really isn't sustainable even for them and it's those companies that are investing in their own healthcare systems to defray the ever increasing costs. If they could get comparable coverage with a public option, they could raise their base pay 20 percent. I'm not sure which legislation you're referring to as beneficial for corporations though. Opting out is for smaller companies benefit.

Again, i agree that smaller companies that are required to provide insurance are not fans,  but their voice is only slightly larger than mine compared to big biz, who is what i am mostly referring to on those who benefit through leverage with healthcare benefits.  But they rypically aren't influencing policy that helps small business or individuals alike, so it isn't strictly healthcare 

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15 hours ago, NMpackalum said:

I would bet every business would be happy to get rid of employer sponsored health care if there was an equal alternative. I carry it for my employees and myself because there are no primnary care physician in my town that take ACA plans because they pay Medicaid rates to providers which most agree is a loss leader for private physicians. An exchange plan for a family of 4 with 40 yo parents comes to $17100 per year if not subsidized. For the privilege of not being able to get an appointment. It's not always about advantages for the businesses.  

not robe though

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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