halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Thoughts? Seems a Russian invasion is becoming more and more likely but still not sold it happens. Gotta agree with Biden, the Ukraine is not worth one single American life. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/world/europe/ukraine-military-russia-invasion.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean327 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Thoughts? Seems a Russian invasion is becoming more and more likely but still not sold it happens. Gotta agree with Biden, the Ukraine is not worth one single American life. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/world/europe/ukraine-military-russia-invasion.html It definitely isn’t. Keep selling them weapons and funneling intel, but no American boots on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 NATO needs to do what's right and finally accept Ukraine as a member instead of a partner. Russia is going to end up annexing another part of a sovereign nation while we sit here and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, retrofade said: NATO needs to do what's right and finally accept Ukraine as a member instead of a partner. Russia is going to end up annexing another part of a sovereign nation while we sit here and watch. I disagree. Russia blames the US an NATO for violating our agreement with them regarding which countries can become NATO members and where bases can be located. We already shit on our 1990 agreement with them, multiple times. We are kind of the bad guys in US-Russia relations. I know people hate hearing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornontheblue Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Yeah no involvement in any wars. Help them financially yes, but no sending any of our troops over there. We have enough of our own internal shit we are trying to work through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornontheblue Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, retrofade said: NATO needs to do what's right and finally accept Ukraine as a member instead of a partner. Russia is going to end up annexing another part of a sovereign nation while we sit here and watch. Accepting them into NATO could trigger the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, bornontheblue said: Accepting them into NATO could trigger the whole thing. This. May as well be an act of war. "In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion." We are bad guys here, too. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: I disagree. Russia blames the US an NATO for violating our agreement with them regarding which countries can become NATO members and where bases can be located. We already shit on our 1990 agreement with them, multiple times. We are kind of the bad guys in US-Russia relations. I know people hate hearing that. We're the bad guys while Russia already annexed part of a sovereign nation, an ally, while we saw there and didn't do anything. Should we sit there and let them annex more of the same country? Perhaps the entire country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: This. May as well be an act of war. "In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion." We are bad guys here, too. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html USSR != Russian Federation Ukraine was part of the USSR when that agreement was struck, then when the USSR fell, Ukraine became independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, retrofade said: We're the bad guys while Russia already annexed part of a sovereign nation, an ally, while we saw there and didn't do anything. Should we sit there and let them annex more of the same country? Perhaps the entire country? Sure. Sanction them. Not getting involved in Crimea outside of sanctions was also 100% the right move. And yeah, we are the bad guys. Well, we are also the bad guys. We made a deal. We violated it first, over and over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said: Sure. Sanction them. Not getting involved in Crimea outside of sanctions was also 100% the right move. And yeah, we are the bad guys. Well, we are also the bad guys. We made a deal. We violated it first, over and over and over. Like I said in my above post, USSR != Russian Federation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, retrofade said: USSR != Russian Federation Ukraine was part of the USSR when that agreement was struck, then when the USSR fell, Ukraine became independent. And your point? We agreed we would not expand NATO in Eastern Europe. We basically t bagged Russia over and over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, retrofade said: Like I said in my above post, USSR != Russian Federation. And like I said whats your point? We made a deal. We violated it. Over and over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said: And your point? We agreed we would not expand NATO in Eastern Europe. We basically t bagged Russia over and over and over. You do realize that Ukraine isn't the endgame here, right? If we sit on our hands with so-called economic sanctions, Russia is going to achieve its overarching goal... re-unification of the USSR. But hey, let's just let them do it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Sure. Sanction them. Not getting involved in Crimea outside of sanctions was also 100% the right move. And yeah, we are the bad guys. Well, we are also the bad guys. We made a deal. We violated it first, over and over and over. Well and we made a 3-way agreement with Russia and the Ukraine to de-nuclearize the Ukraine. In retrospect, not the greatest idea Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said: And like I said whats your point? We made a deal. We violated it. Over and over and over. We made a deal with the USSR, which doesn't fvcking exist anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, retrofade said: You do realize that Ukraine isn't the endgame here, right? If we sit on our hands with so-called economic sanctions, Russia is going to achieve its overarching goal... re-unification of the USSR. But hey, let's just let them do it, right? retro I don't think they can. Hell they can hardly afford this brushfire war in a part of the Ukraine. Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: This. May as well be an act of war. "In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion." We are bad guys here, too. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html Nah. A deal that wasn’t struck with a country that doesn’t exist. Give me a break. Russia is the complete jerk here. We just don’t care enough to do anything about it. We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, retrofade said: You do realize that Ukraine isn't the endgame here, right? If we sit on our hands with so-called economic sanctions, Russia is going to achieve its overarching goal... re-unification of the USSR. But hey, let's just let them do it, right? Sure. Beats the ever living shit out of a war with Russia. Maybe we make a deal we actually honor this time and kick out Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, the Baltic states from NATO in exchange for them leaving the Ukraine alone? I like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, thelawlorfaithful said: Nah. A deal that wasn’t struck with a country that doesn’t exist. Give me a break. Russia is the complete jerk here. We just don’t care enough to do anything about it. The understanding was clear. We fugged em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...