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EvilPoke

Is the split coming?

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3 hours ago, BoiseStateOfMind said:

Promotion/relegation wouldn't accomplish much in college football. A program like Wazzu or Vandy or Rutgers that already struggle to compete with the benefit of P5 money would never recover from being relegated to a lower conference with far less resources. Meanwhile, you'd occasionally see schools like NIU or WMU get promoted after a one-hit-wonder season that can barely afford the MAC, let alone the B1G, who would get relegated right back down. The Alabamas and Ohio States would keep dominating regardless.

Never understood why people keep trying to push this system into American sports like it would ever be financially tenable.

I didn't say relegation/promotion would be based on a single season and although the Alabamas and Ohio States would never be relegated, such a system would serve to flatten their dominance. As an example, Vanderbilt WOULD eventually be relegated - as it fully deserves to be - so Bama wouldn't be able to feed off the Commodores every season like the Tide does now but would instead end up playing a higher caliber opponent

FBS football is barely a "sport" anymore. It's much closer to being a business like the NFL and will continue becoming so with advent of the NIL. Competition in the NFL is enhanced by existence of a draft. Create that for college football and relegation/promotion would be unnecessary. However, a draft would never be lawful unless college football players are represented by a single union and that union agrees on the the players' behalf to the existence of a draft. Even then, the universities with which the union bargains would have to collectively agree to a draft and as a practical matter, that is never going to happen.

You provide no explanation for why you think relegation/promotion wouldn't be financially feasible for "American sports." Without such an explanation, your final sentence is completely without value.

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20 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

The Utes are not dragging down the Pac and they pack their ball park every home game.

Ironically, they are going to really hurt the PAC 12 by destroying Oregon tonight.

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3 hours ago, Rocket said:

Got rid of Larry Scott now get rid of Utah and the Pac will be fine.

Don't look now, but your PAC anchor is crushing the 3rd Ranked team in the CFP.

The good news is, this will move the Aztecs up several spots.

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I read the OP article earlier.  P5 split definitely coming.  Once the CFP expands to 12, as it should, 3 television networks/platforms will pay well for it all.  No more ESPN only lockup with 4 teams, myopic.  Fox and CBS join up most certainly.  NBC with only Notre Dame home games and Sunday night NFL, not a player.

Power 5 Big12 will expand.  Westward and only west.  I look forward to digging up this thread c. 2023.  A bit of keen foreseen told ya so. 

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6 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

I think I'm ready for it.  They have +++++ed up what used to make football more special to me with all of the conference realignment.  

Let the universities who want to run a semi pro league go do that and let the rest of the universities keep the games regional and tone down the arms race and coaches salaries.  

Not to mention playing a regular season that has a chance to turn into a meaningful postseason.  Virtually every bowl eligible G5 team plays against another G5 team in a bowl game.  Might as well forget the bowl games and make a playoff. 

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Big12 looking to go to upper $40m/squad per 365sports.  Linky.

I really dig Baylor's 365sports channel.  It's very open and not biased at all.  Baylor.  A kingpin of Big12 in both gridiron and hoops.  Who woudda knew back in the day when Baylor first joined up? 

I really like their open mindedness on 365sports.  XII potential jump to 16.  Chapter2 of expansion.....

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Just now, Coog kev said:

Big12 looking to go to upper $40m/squad per 365sports.  Linky.

I really dig Baylor's 365sports channel.  It's very open and not biased at all.  Baylor.  A kingpin of Big12 in both gridiron and hoops.  Who woudda knew back in the day when Baylor first joined up? 

I really like their open mindedness on 365sports.  XII potential jump to 16.  Chapter2 of expansion.....

You left out rape and murder.

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One it is coming at some point however what many experts believe holding everything together has been March Madness and the NCAA Tournament as NCAA has said before if the conferences decide to break away from NCAA they won't be able to compete in the Madness and that has given a lot of schools a second thought process involved and they also don't want court battles either.

However one thing that I have heard is that would would only apply if you wanted to join the big boy conferences and schools already up or planning to move up will be grandfathered claused in under the other rules if it passes which there is a huge battle between two sides and last I heard some of the changes don't have the votes to move forward even from the bigger conferences themselves.

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17 hours ago, 818SUDSFan said:

I didn't say relegation/promotion would be based on a single season and although the Alabamas and Ohio States would never be relegated, such a system would serve to flatten their dominance. As an example, Vanderbilt WOULD eventually be relegated - as it fully deserves to be - so Bama wouldn't be able to feed off the Commodores every season like the Tide does now but would instead end up playing a higher caliber opponent

FBS football is barely a "sport" anymore. It's much closer to being a business like the NFL and will continue becoming so with advent of the NIL. Competition in the NFL is enhanced by existence of a draft. Create that for college football and relegation/promotion would be unnecessary. However, a draft would never be lawful unless college football players are represented by a single union and that union agrees on the the players' behalf to the existence of a draft. Even then, the universities with which the union bargains would have to collectively agree to a draft and as a practical matter, that is never going to happen.

You provide no explanation for why you think relegation/promotion wouldn't be financially feasible for "American sports." Without such an explanation, your final sentence is completely without value.

I am a fan of promotion / relegation simply for the fact that it gives teams at the bottom something to keep playing for.  It can be made equitable in such ways as like EPL does wilth parachute payments.  The detractors say it offers teams like Norwich (my team) a model to be a yo-yo club.  However that's called survival.  And at the end of the day, you just want something to root for.  Norwich are 19th place.  Every game is live or +++++ing die.  What more do fans want?  Even in a bad year.  Even if it means scraping by to live for another year in top flight.  Nobody wants to be a yo yo club. Everyone wants to do everything they can to stay up and keep that EPL TV money flowing. 

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1 hour ago, 818SUDSFan said:

You left out rape and murder.

Lols.  However, Baylor really has grown up in a way.  They are the direct opposite of TCU types and Oklahoma State types that are too gentrified in their old ways living under a rock, head in sand. 

IMO, Baylor in more than subtle form is driving the new television contract to be negotiated.  Along with Kansas State, Iowa State, and Texas Tech.  Kansas and West Virginia are kinda just 'there' in limbo land. 

I am really glad to know the Big12 is expansion happy post UH, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati c. 2023.  I want more to join.  I really do.  Especially a strong westward tilt.  That means NO to Memphis and USF no matter what they do. 

BYU needs some buddies.  The PAC needs to have strong competition in PST attention span. 

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1 hour ago, Coog kev said:

Big12 looking to go to upper $40m/squad per 365sports.  Linky.

I really dig Baylor's 365sports channel.  It's very open and not biased at all.  Baylor.  A kingpin of Big12 in both gridiron and hoops.  Who woudda knew back in the day when Baylor first joined up? 

I really like their open mindedness on 365sports.  XII potential jump to 16.  Chapter2 of expansion.....

They’re just trying to milk the expansion views.  There’s no viable path to 16 until/unless they poach the PAC when their media deal underwhelms.  Same with 14.  Not happening.  Big 10 doesn’t want KU or ISU either nor does the SEC want anyone not in the ACC.  They need views.  Expansion talk gets desperate views from outsiders.  
 

The big 12 media deal $$ was rumored to be in the mid-upper thirties per year according to the people who would know in UCF circles.  Well into 40’s seems high but maybe if they bring in some PAC schools it could happen. 

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^^^ Did you actually listen to the link provided?  Probably not.  No way Big12 has any power to 'bring in some PAC schools'.  The point of the op-ed Sports365 is this.  Base minimum middle $40m with the success of the current and 3 of the new 4.  UCF is a tag along.  Mediocre in football.  Mediocre in hoops.  It's just Disney and under-performing Gus.  Ultimately UCF will be left on its island in Florida while the rest of Us invite others to co-join BYU. 

'UCF circles' with intel.  Lols.

image.jpeg.6d8fc4e83228e2345646b54b59217fb6.jpeg

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Coog kev said:

^^^ Did you actually listen to the link provided?  Probably not.  No way Big12 has any power to 'bring in some PAC schools'.  The point of the op-ed Sports365 is this.  Base minimum middle $40m with the success of the current and 3 of the new 4.  UCF is a tag along.  Mediocre in football.  Mediocre in hoops.  It's just Disney and under-performing Gus.  Ultimately UCF will be left on its island in Florida while the rest of Us invite others to co-join BYU. 

'UCF circles' with intel.  Lols.

image.jpeg.6d8fc4e83228e2345646b54b59217fb6.jpeg

 

 

I saw that clip the other day and the guy even admitted this was pure speculation on his part, there was nothing, which he admitted himself out there, but pure speculation on his part. These guys have been pushing this Chapter 2 thing for months when Baylor AD, Big 12 Commish, Kansas St AD have all said there are NO PLANS to expand beyond what they have already expanded to at this time and even said it on their own show when talking to them. The only thing in flux is how fast or when BYU/Cincy/Houston/UCF will join the Big 12 which things could be accelerated if Texas and/or Oklahoma leave sooner.

However they have also repeatedly said there is no desire to move to 16 schools as their is no advantage to that. No if someone else leaves Big 12 that will make them look again but I think the bigs are stable for the time. I think there is more of a chance Big East trying to recruit Memphis to join them than there is Memphis to the Big 12 at this point. 

They are entertaining to watch but they are Big 12 homers as well. They were also calling on their show as well that no one outside of the P5 should be involved in the playoffs either

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10 minutes ago, wolfpack1 said:

These guys have been pushing this Chapter 2 thing for months when Baylor AD, Big 12 Commish, Kansas St AD have all said there are NO PLANS to expand beyond what they have already expanded to at this time and even said it on their own show when talking to them.

Of course there's no guarantee of a "Chapter 2," but I'm pretty sure the ADs would be saying this in public either way until anything actually happens.

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5 minutes ago, BoiseStateOfMind said:

Of course there's no guarantee of a "Chapter 2," but I'm pretty sure the ADs would be saying this in public either way until anything actually happens.

I think their Chapter 2 is more like a this happens, this happens this happens here is our plan for that. But there is no reason as this time to expand more I don't think unless they lose someone

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4 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

6 total programs with both fball and bball ranked in the Top25 right now - 3 are in the future BigXII (BYU, Houston, and Baylor).  Not bad BigXII, not bad…

image.gif.9830acd8d9020a8fd053cec6010e2110.gif

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On 11/20/2021 at 3:17 PM, BoiseStateOfMind said:

Promotion/relegation wouldn't accomplish much in college football. A program like Wazzu or Vandy or Rutgers that already struggle to compete with the benefit of P5 money would never recover from being relegated to a lower conference with far less resources. Meanwhile, you'd occasionally see schools like NIU or WMU get promoted after a one-hit-wonder season that can barely afford the MAC, let alone the B1G, who would get relegated right back down. The Alabamas and Ohio States would keep dominating regardless.

Never understood why people keep trying to push this system into American sports like it would ever be financially tenable.

There's even more reasons why it won't work for "American (college) football"...

The career of a college player is far shorter on average than an elite international soccer professional. What, maybe an average of significantly less than 3 years? Sure, you get a few 4 year stars, but even those usually mature to their best performance sometime in year 2 or 3. 

So a team like the 2011 Boise State squad (which IMO was the most talented ever for BSU) gets promoted up. Their first year in the better league, they lose 5 future NFL-drafted/offered D Linemen, their star QB and several other key players, some of which would not be replaced with similar talent.  Best of luck in your new "Premier League"...

And I'm not even going to address the potential coaching issues!

As was said above, does an elite recruit really commit to a school that might get promoted/relegated short term? Probably not...

PS. Scheduling, budgeting, rivalries, etc. would also cause major issues.

Promotion/relegation is a lovely, equitable theory for college football but unworkable in reality.

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