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HR_Poke

Taxing unrealized gains

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Listening to the 538 podcast. They are breaking down a poll regarding the reconciliation bill. The expanded tax credit is polling underwater, only like 30something percent. Medicare negotiating drug prices, which this message board’s hero Sinema opposes, was literally the most popular proposal (80somthing percent). Universal pre-k was over 60%. Medicare coverage for dental, vision, and hearing over 80%. Climate stuff over 60%. Paid parental leave for both parents was over 60%. ALL public universities (not just community colleges) being tuition free over 60%.  
 

And keep in mind, this is polling of all Americans. Among Democrats these numbers are all obviously higher. That’s relevant considering only Democrats are doing the negotiating. 

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14 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Listening to the 538 podcast. They are breaking down a poll regarding the reconciliation bill. The expanded tax credit is polling underwater, only like 30something percent. Medicare negotiating drug prices, which this message board’s hero Sinema opposes, was literally the most popular proposal (80somthing percent). Universal pre-k was over 60%. Medicare coverage for dental, vision, and hearing over 80%. Climate stuff over 60%. Paid parental leave for both parents was over 60%. ALL public universities (not just community colleges) being tuition free over 60%.  
 

And keep in mind, this is polling of all Americans. Among Democrats these numbers are all obviously higher. That’s relevant considering only Democrats are doing the negotiating. 

Does the poll  ask if they would be willing to have their taxes substantially increased to pay for all of it. If it doesn’t then I can’t take that poll seriously. 

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1 hour ago, East Coast Aztec said:
55 minutes ago, bornontheblue said:


 

 

1 hour ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Shrug shoulders when bridges fail.  Rinse and repeat.

Maybe we should have a bill that provides money for substandard bridges, you know real infrastructure. How difficult is it to provide said bill instead of a lot of other extraneous stuff tacked on that has nothing to do with infrastructure. Apparently for Democrats it’s not possible. 

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1 hour ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Listening to the 538 podcast. They are breaking down a poll regarding the reconciliation bill. The expanded tax credit is polling underwater, only like 30something percent. Medicare negotiating drug prices, which this message board’s hero Sinema opposes, was literally the most popular proposal (80somthing percent). Universal pre-k was over 60%. Medicare coverage for dental, vision, and hearing over 80%. Climate stuff over 60%. Paid parental leave for both parents was over 60%. ALL public universities (not just community colleges) being tuition free over 60%.  
 

And keep in mind, this is polling of all Americans. Among Democrats these numbers are all obviously higher. That’s relevant considering only Democrats are doing the negotiating. 

I wish the CTC was ditched for a universal child allowance, but it's a real shame that the CTC expansion isn't more popular. Then again, I'm under no illusion about my beliefs. I know the majority of this country is opposed to most of my stances

To your point, Manchin and Sinema clearly oppose multiple policies that poll well

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

 

Maybe we should have a bill that provides money for substandard bridges, you know real infrastructure. How difficult is it to provide said bill instead of a lot of other extraneous stuff tacked on that has nothing to do with infrastructure. Apparently for Democrats it’s not possible. 

You are acting like I would disagree with that.  Or if I haven't said that previously.  Or if I didn't have to hear excuses to why bills just a few years ago had bullshit in them that I suggested what you are suggesting without hearing how "this is how negotiations work" from the same folks who now are posting similar to you.  I don't recall if you were one of them, so I am not saying you were, but I agree, and have agreed on what you have said for multiple presidencies.  My consistency is here on this one.

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2 hours ago, Maji said:

I wish the CTC was ditched for a universal child allowance, but it's a real shame that the CTC expansion isn't more popular. Then again, I'm under no illusion about my beliefs. I know the majority of this country is opposed to most of my stances

To your point, Manchin and Sinema clearly oppose multiple policies that poll well

It’s great that people all want that nice stuff, but the fact is our budget is busting at the seams, and debt is being passed down to our kids and grandkids. Sometimes you just have to say it’s unaffordable. Don’t most of us do that in our private lives? 
 

 

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An exercise in futility, our so called reps do the bidding of their corporate donors not what you or I want. The very definition of wokeness. Christmas is almost here put your cookies and milk out and wait for santa to come down the chimney.

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

It’s great that people all want that nice stuff, but the fact is our budget is busting at the seams, and debt is being passed down to our kids and grandkids. Sometimes you just have to say it’s unaffordable. Don’t most of us do that in our private lives? 
 

 

How do you know it's too much? What's the dollar amount? Where's the line and how did you come up with it?

 

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17 hours ago, bornontheblue said:

They may pay it. I have no idea. I haven seen their tax returns.

I do know that if you have accumulated earnings over a long period of time and don't pay out dividends, the IRS can assess an accumulated earnings tax for C-Corps. 

 

 

The 400 richest families in the U.S. — worth between $2.1 billion and $160 billion and representing the top 0.0002% of all taxpayers — paid an effective tax rate of 8.2% between 2010 and 2018, according to a new analysis released by a pair of Biden administration economists.
 
 
A single taxpayer making $50k, like a secretary, would be in the 22% income tax bracket on their wages about about $40k.  A poor physician who makes $250k a year is in the 35% tax bracket.  Shouldn't a billionaire who doesn't have to work at least pay the same amount as the poor doctor who has to work in the ER on the graveyard shift?  It isn't really fair that a physician has to pay almost 3x as much percent of their income than a billionaire.  
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5 hours ago, toonkee said:

How do you know it's too much? What's the dollar amount? Where's the line and how did you come up with it?

 

Yet the hypocrisy is it is always completely okay for the debt to empty out the treasury to give billionaires huge tax cuts.  The deficit and debt scolds magically disappeared when their faux populist gave the billionaires another tax cut.  You can't take these people seriously any longer.  There are a certain amount of basic services the government needs to perform but we have a generation of people who border anarchists.  These people loved the government when it was giving them free education and schooling in the beginning of life but now they are miserly and only think government should protect their old age benefits and force the debt engorged younger generation to pay into the social security trust fund they blew on tax cuts in the 1980s-2000s.

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https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/wealth-taxes-cant-satisfy-constitutional-requirements

Congress has never done anything quite like this, because it has long been recognized that, as a matter of constitutional law, Congress can’t treat unrealized appreciation as taxable income. In 1920, the U.S. Supreme Court concluded that, under the 16th Amendment, there must be some actual transfer of rights before Congress can tax appreciation as income. Sell appreciated property and you realize the gain. But just hold on, and there’s no income to tax. The ProPublica report measures effective tax rates by assuming that unrealized increases in wealth are the same as income. That point may have polemical power, but it’s not the law.

 

Sounds like it will get struck down by the supreme court, and so we will be assuming debt to compensate for the revenue shortfall.....  Great....

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13 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

 

Maybe we should have a bill that provides money for substandard bridges, you know real infrastructure. How difficult is it to provide said bill instead of a lot of other extraneous stuff tacked on that has nothing to do with infrastructure. Apparently for Democrats it’s not possible. 

Well, it is two totally separate bills.  The infrastructure bill has bipartisan support and is mostly infrastructure.  The Build Back Better is the big government wealth distribution legislation which is being pared down by SinaManchin

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11 hours ago, toonkee said:

How do you know it's too much? What's the dollar amount? Where's the line and how did you come up with it?

 

Google is your friend. Most economists will tell you the current trend is unsustainable. So let’s keep on spending like a teenager at the mall with her parents credit card. Just think of some of the nice things we could have with just the interest we are paying on the debt. 

The deficit in 2020 totaled $3.13 trillion and already is at $2.06 trillion through the first eight months of the fiscal year. Total government debt is now $28.3 trillion, of which the public holds $22.2 trillion.

We are spending almost twice what we are taking in. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57170

Despite Low Rates, Interest Costs on the National Debt to Nearly Triple in Next Decade. ... CBO projects that interest costs will grow from $331 billion this year to $910 billion in 2031 — a nearly threefold increase. This year's interest payments work out to roughly $2,600 per household.

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16 hours ago, bornontheblue said:

Does the poll  ask if they would be willing to have their taxes substantially increased to pay for all of it. If it doesn’t then I can’t take that poll seriously. 

Well according to all the reports “their” taxes wouldn’t be raised unless “they” are incredibly wealthy. The poll asked about the entire bill, and approval was over 60%. The poll also asked that exact same question and added that it would be paid for by tax increases on the wealthy, and the bill was a few percentage points more popular. 

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11 hours ago, toonkee said:

How do you know it's too much? What's the dollar amount? Where's the line and how did you come up with it?

 

Generally 100% debt to GDP is the arbitrary limit which we have passed.  We passed it back in WW2 as well but quickly paid it down after that.  The more you spend without actually paying down the debt, will eventually make it harder to incur debt when we need it in a national emergency.

But neither party is actually serious about cutting spending and increasing revenue to pay this debt down....

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Just found out they actually do this in Denmark...you know the part of the world that came up with the central banking concept. There all Mutual Funds, exchange traded funds, and capital associations are taxed annually. Individual securities though, are still taxed only when gains are realized. So, it's possible unless some of you think America isn't up to the task?

 

 

 

 

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