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HR_Poke

Taxing unrealized gains

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3 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Joe Six Pack doesn't invest?  If we are simply saying that the established rich aren't paying income because they don't need to actualize wealth, how many is that?  Because most who are moving money around are still circulating cashflows, and if they have employees, are paying taxes as well.  Personally, I am more apt to keep deductions that promote small and privately owned businesses, and let large corporations and especially publicly-traded companies have very limited deductions.  Their size and global-funding can fend for themselves much easier, and they have no attachment to their location or workforce due to that.  

YES... that is exactly what I am saying!!!  Democrats think it will impact less than 1000.

I would LOVE to see a HUGE cut in self-employment taxes that a lot of small businesses and sole proprietorships have to pay.  Small businesses have to pay 15+% just in THOSE taxes on top of regular income taxes!  Small business owners are probably paying more % in S/E taxes than billionaires pay in total taxes!  We need to reward entrepreneurs instead of huge corporations and billionaires.  

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I will say this...when I started managing partnerships and s-corps, its sorta a joke the deductions and tax positions these people take. The folks I work with talk about this a lot. I'm not gonna pretend my experience is everything but I have to say it is weird to see people come to their defense and I have to wonder why? 

 

 

 

 

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Let me give you another good example.  Amazon pays ZERO in dividends.  In the olden days large "blue chip" companies were prized because they paid out dividends.  But dividends will create taxable income to the shareholders.  Capital gains, on the other hand, never create a taxable event to shareholders until they sell the shares of Amazon stock.  Bezos is in control of Amazon so why do you think they don't pay dividends?:sorry:

Without looking, I bet Tesla, Facebook, and most other billionaire corporate entities don't pay dividends either!

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6 minutes ago, Akkula said:

YES... that is exactly what I am saying!!!  Democrats think it will impact less than 1000.

I would LOVE to see a HUGE cut in self-employment taxes that a lot of small businesses and sole proprietorships have to pay.  Small businesses have to pay 15+% just in THOSE taxes on top of regular income taxes!  Small business owners are probably paying more % in S/E taxes than billionaires pay in total taxes!  We need to reward entrepreneurs instead of huge corporations and billionaires.  

I am not in disagreement with the second part.  I am just unsure of how the unrealized part works, and how I am confident this will end up burning regular folks more, such as the real estate conspiracy I conjured up.  Because I know they could find a way to do it. 

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3 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Small business owners are probably paying more % in S/E taxes than billionaires pay in total taxes!

You are a complete fool!

The reason small business owners pay more collectively than billionaires is because they are millions of small business owners, an very few billionaires. Also, you seem to think that all billionaires are all invested in liquid , easily valued assets, which is far from true. 

 

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5 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

I will say this...when I started managing partnerships and s-corps, its sorta a joke the deductions and tax positions these people take. The folks I work with talk about this a lot. I'm not gonna pretend my experience is everything but I have to say it is weird to see people come to their defense and I have to wonder why? 

It's not about defending the rich.  It's about opposing bad legislation that won't do what it's intended and lead us to acquiring more debt to make up the gap.  It's also the same problem everyone has with the AMT.  It has to be constantly updated so that it isn't hitting the middle class.  How long until these various "Wealth Taxes" start effecting you and me to our detriment?

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6 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Let me give you another good example.  Amazon pays ZERO in dividends.  In the olden days large "blue chip" companies were prized because they paid out dividends.  But dividends will create taxable income to the shareholders.  Capital gains, on the other hand, never create a taxable event to shareholders until they sell the shares of Amazon stock.  Bezos is in control of Amazon so why do you think they don't pay dividends?:sorry:

Without looking, I bet Tesla, Facebook, and most other billionaire corporate entities don't pay dividends either!

The accumulated earnings tax. Google it. 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/accumulatedearningstax.asp

 

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7 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

I will say this...when I started managing partnerships and s-corps, its sorta a joke the deductions and tax positions these people take. The folks I work with talk about this a lot. I'm not gonna pretend my experience is everything but I have to say it is weird to see people come to their defense and I have to wonder why? 

Stop wondering about that stuff, and start worrying about paying me the money you owe me. Same goes for the rest of you guys. 

 

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1 minute ago, bornontheblue said:

You are a complete fool!

The reason small business owners pay more collectively than billionaires is because they are millions of small business owners, an very few billionaires. Also, you seem to think that all billionaires are all invested in liquid , easily valued assets, which is far from true. 

 

You are either ignoring or trying to purposefully misstate what I said.  I said a greater percentage than a billionaire just in self-employment taxes than billionaires pay in income taxes.  Billionaires pay a lower percentage rate than their secretaries, as we all know.  It is so surprising to me that the great populist Trumpists are such shills for the billionaires and that their great messiah populist's crowning achievement was a tax cut mostly for the wealthy.   

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2 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

It's not about defending the rich.  It's about opposing bad legislation that won't do what it's intended and lead us to acquiring more debt to make up the gap.  It's also the same problem everyone has with the AMT.  It has to be constantly updated so that it isn't hitting the middle class.  How long until these various "Wealth Taxes" start effecting you and me to our detriment?

Tax policy aimed at serving the rich their comeuppance is bad tax policy. 

 

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4 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

It's not about defending the rich.  It's about opposing bad legislation that won't do what it's intended and lead us to acquiring more debt to make up the gap.  It's also the same problem everyone has with the AMT.  It has to be constantly updated so that it isn't hitting the middle class.  How long until these various "Wealth Taxes" start effecting you and me to our detriment?

I think the problem is people thinking this will ever apply to them. Unless someone is in the top 1% or so of earners in the country. Any law like this wouldn't apply to refi's for homeowners who's wealth will ever reach a few million in their whole life...which is like 99% of earners. 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Akkula said:

You are either ignoring or trying to purposefully misstate what I said.  I said a greater percentage than a billionaire just in self-employment taxes than billionaires pay in income taxes.  Billionaires pay a lower percentage rate than their secretaries, as we all know.  It is so surprising to me that the great populist Trumpists are such shills for the billionaires and that their great messiah populist's crowning achievement was a tax cut mostly for the wealthy.   

All billionaires pay a lower rate than their secretaries, or just Warren Buffett. Have you seen all their tax returns and can verify this. Cmon now. 

 

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2 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

I think the problem is people thinking this will ever apply to them. Unless someone is in the top 1% or so of earners in the country. Any law like this wouldn't apply to refi's for homeowners who's wealth will ever reach a few million in their whole life...which is like 99% of earners. 

Perhaps the law, but what happens when they manipulate the market to recoup that money?  And how they will then blame the law, and half of America will blame their neighbors for it.  Look at the strikes right now and everything that surrounds that.  They can easily win this game too.

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1 minute ago, Akkula said:

Why aren't Amazon, Tesla, and Facebook paying it when they don't pay dividends?

They may pay it. I have no idea. I haven seen their tax returns.

I do know that if you have accumulated earnings over a long period of time and don't pay out dividends, the IRS can assess an accumulated earnings tax for C-Corps. 

 

 

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All these feel good opinions and sjw gasbaggery, but not one answer to a simple question: what is the IRS's legal right to ask? 

I know there are ppl on here who've read Titles 26 of the USC and CFR from front to back and back to front again. If there is mutual assent written into those codes, I'm sure someone will post it.

 

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6 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Perhaps the law, but what happens when they manipulate the market to recoup that money?  And how they will then blame the law, and half of America will blame their neighbors for it.  Look at the strikes right now and everything that surrounds that.  They can easily win this game too.

Yeah, so consumption tax.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Maynard Delecto said:

All these feel good opinions and sjw gasbaggery, but not one answer to a simple question: what is the IRS's legal right to ask? 

I know there are ppl on here who've read Titles 26 of the USC and CFR from front to back and back to front again. If there is mutual assent written into those codes, I'm sure someone will post it.

Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer GIFs | Tenor

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

I think the problem is people thinking this will ever apply to them. Unless someone is in the top 1% or so of earners in the country. Any law like this wouldn't apply to refi's for homeowners who's wealth will ever reach a few million in their whole life...which is like 99% of earners. 

The same thing was said about the AMT.  Yet here we are....

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