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Just now, sactowndog said:

It’s means the general consensus would indicate your opinion is incorrect.  You can blindly hold that opinion or cite at least one source that would agree with you.   Right now it is opinion versus opinion and you are in the substantial minority.   Therefore, it’s incumbent upon you to chose to cite your source or stubbornly remain uninformed.   
 

Your choice…

Or you could easily do your own research.  Dictating how people should argue on a sports message board is beyond stupid.

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From Richard J. Evans a leading historian on Hitler and fascism.

 

Fascism is one of those concepts that can seem almost infinitely elastic; it’s just too tempting for polemical purposes to accuse any authoritarian politician of being like Hitler, or any populist movement of being fascist. But we have to remember that fascism was a militaristic movement, aiming at war and conflict, territorial expansion and empire. Fascists put every citizen into uniform, drilled the people into uniformity and obedience in training camps, and subordinated private life, business companies, and institutions of all kinds to the state. Fascists were ultimately genocidal, whether it was the Nazis exterminating the Jews, or the Italian Fascists exterminating the Ethiopians (among other things, by using poison gas). Nazism and Fascism also put science at the center of their belief systems, in particular, racial and eugenic ‘science’, and regarded religion as a leftover from medieval times that would soon disappear. In all these respects [fascism] differed from 21st-century populism, which is hostile to the state, anti-scientific, and opposed to militarism both within the country and outside it. The classic fascist mass consisted of endless marching columns of identically uniformed men; today’s populist mass, as in the storming of the US Capitol on January 6th, 2021, consist of thousands of informally and in some cases eccentrically attired individuals heaving about in a chaotic heap, violent and aggressive but not organized in any military way. The problem with calling today’s right populism ‘fascist’ is that it’s fighting today’s battles with the weapons of the 1920s and 1930s. Time has mov

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1 hour ago, HR_Poke said:

The nazis didn't advocate against a ruling elite though, they were the ruling conservative elite that advocated a strong ruler to compensate for a weak Weimar republic.

They took power on the idea that the ruling elite sold out Germany. most notably the Jews. 

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7 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

From Richard J. Evans a leading historian on Hitler and fascism.

 

Fascism is one of those concepts that can seem almost infinitely elastic; it’s just too tempting for polemical purposes to accuse any authoritarian politician of being like Hitler, or any populist movement of being fascist. But we have to remember that fascism was a militaristic movement, aiming at war and conflict, territorial expansion and empire. Fascists put every citizen into uniform, drilled the people into uniformity and obedience in training camps, and subordinated private life, business companies, and institutions of all kinds to the state. Fascists were ultimately genocidal, whether it was the Nazis exterminating the Jews, or the Italian Fascists exterminating the Ethiopians (among other things, by using poison gas). Nazism and Fascism also put science at the center of their belief systems, in particular, racial and eugenic ‘science’, and regarded religion as a leftover from medieval times that would soon disappear. In all these respects [fascism] differed from 21st-century populism, which is hostile to the state, anti-scientific, and opposed to militarism both within the country and outside it. The classic fascist mass consisted of endless marching columns of identically uniformed men; today’s populist mass, as in the storming of the US Capitol on January 6th, 2021, consist of thousands of informally and in some cases eccentrically attired individuals heaving about in a chaotic heap, violent and aggressive but not organized in any military way. The problem with calling today’s right populism ‘fascist’ is that it’s fighting today’s battles with the weapons of the 1920s and 1930s. Time has mov

This clearly talks about right-wing populism.

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A common framework for interpreting populism is known as the ideational approach: this defines populism as an ideology which presents "the people" as a morally good force and contrasts them against "the elite", who are portrayed as corrupt and self-serving. Populists differ in how "the people" are defined, but it can be based along class, ethnic, or national lines. Populists typically present "the elite" as comprising the political, economic, cultural, and media establishment, depicted as a homogeneous entity and accused of placing their own interests, and often the interests of other groups—such as large corporations, foreign countries, or immigrants—above the interests of "the people". Populist parties and social movements are often led by charismatic or dominant figures who present themselves as the "voice of the people". According to the ideational approach, populism is often combined with other ideologies, such as nationalism, liberalism, or socialism. Thus, populists can be found at different locations along the left–right political spectrum, and there exist both left-wing populism and right-wing populism.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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1 hour ago, youngredbullfan said:

The Nazis were definitely not the ruling elite for the most part.

The ruling elite were in the Centre Party if Catholic and DVNP if Protestant. They eventually coalesced around Hitler as a means to assert their imperialist reactionary fantasies and stave off the commies. Look at someone like Hugenberg or Elard von Oldenburg who thought they could manipulate Hitler into bringing back the Kaiser lmao

worked out better for them than von Schleicher.

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1 hour ago, HR_Poke said:

I disagree, the very nature of populism is us vs the ruling elite.  The nazis were us vs the threat of communism, then became us vs the jews. 

They were always anti-Semitic. And anti-communist. In fact, early on they consolidated their paranoias by creating the "Judeo-Bolshevist," the race of people who supposedly masterminded all communist ideology. Jews were a segment of the ruling elite in their minds, the financial elite who betrayed Germany in the first world war. The masters of international finance. And in the Soviet Union, the commissars who propagated Marxism.

It is sort of funny that they thought the Jews controlled global finance and were communists simultaneously . 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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24 minutes ago, youngredbullfan said:

 

It is sort of funny that they thought the Jews controlled global finance and were communists simultaneously . 

Reminds me how the current GOP thinks the Democrats are the party of big tech capitalists… and socialists. I mean….

Tom Cruise What GIF

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7 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Reminds me how the current GOP thinks the Democrats are the party of big tech capitalists… and socialists. I mean….

Tom Cruise What GIF

The modern Trumpist ideology is similarly confused and self-contradictory. 

Of course, everyone knows that elites love socialism. It's generally their favorite thing.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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Just now, youngredbullfan said:

The modern Trumpist ideology is similarly confused and self-contradictory. 

Of course, everyone knows that elites love socialism. It's generally their favorite thing.

Obviously, all my elite homies love socialism. 

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7 hours ago, Bob said:

What's the count on one year of Biden not to mention the 5+trillion dollar liberal wish list on the table.  Oh, and has Biden stopped covid yet, like he promised?

Tough to do when the selfish, douchebaggy, idiot-laden MAGA crowd prefer watching countless of their fellow antivax-dipschitts die in droves in hospitals across the country.  We've long-since crossed over into an antivaxer pandemic, you GD dolt... 

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3 hours ago, NVGiant said:

This clearly talks about right-wing populism.

Yes but it does also say it’s not fascist.  But the problem is he leaves a large gap between populism and fascism where many a right wing authoritarian regime can fall.   Without a term to describe describe a populism that has progressed to right wing authoritarianism but fails to reach the horrors of Hitler we are lost and descend into disagreement.   It was much of the same disagreement HMHB and I had.   
 

So I return to my original question to @HR_Poke   If right wing authoritarianism isn’t fascism than what is it?  

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3 hours ago, HR_Poke said:

From Richard J. Evans a leading historian on Hitler and fascism.

 

Fascism is one of those concepts that can seem almost infinitely elastic; it’s just too tempting for polemical purposes to accuse any authoritarian politician of being like Hitler, or any populist movement of being fascist. But we have to remember that fascism was a militaristic movement, aiming at war and conflict, territorial expansion and empire. Fascists put every citizen into uniform, drilled the people into uniformity and obedience in training camps, and subordinated private life, business companies, and institutions of all kinds to the state. Fascists were ultimately genocidal, whether it was the Nazis exterminating the Jews, or the Italian Fascists exterminating the Ethiopians (among other things, by using poison gas). Nazism and Fascism also put science at the center of their belief systems, in particular, racial and eugenic ‘science’, and regarded religion as a leftover from medieval times that would soon disappear. In all these respects [fascism] differed from 21st-century populism, which is hostile to the state, anti-scientific, and opposed to militarism both within the country and outside it. The classic fascist mass consisted of endless marching columns of identically uniformed men; today’s populist mass, as in the storming of the US Capitol on January 6th, 2021, consist of thousands of informally and in some cases eccentrically attired individuals heaving about in a chaotic heap, violent and aggressive but not organized in any military way. The problem with calling today’s right populism ‘fascist’ is that it’s fighting today’s battles with the weapons of the 1920s and 1930s. Time has mov

Thank you.  This quote gives us something to dig into versus arguing about my opinion is better than yours.   Perhaps we may all learn something.  

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3 hours ago, RSF said:

A common framework for interpreting populism is known as the ideational approach: this defines populism as an ideology which presents "the people" as a morally good force and contrasts them against "the elite", who are portrayed as corrupt and self-serving. Populists differ in how "the people" are defined, but it can be based along class, ethnic, or national lines. Populists typically present "the elite" as comprising the political, economic, cultural, and media establishment, depicted as a homogeneous entity and accused of placing their own interests, and often the interests of other groups—such as large corporations, foreign countries, or immigrants—above the interests of "the people". Populist parties and social movements are often led by charismatic or dominant figures who present themselves as the "voice of the people". According to the ideational approach, populism is often combined with other ideologies, such as nationalism, liberalism, or socialism. Thus, populists can be found at different locations along the left–right political spectrum, and there exist both left-wing populism and right-wing populism.

Nicely done!  Source? 

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58 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Yes but it does also say it’s not fascist.  But the problem is he leaves a large gap between populism and fascism where many a right wing authoritarian regime can fall.   Without a term to describe describe a populism that has progressed to right wing authoritarianism but fails to reach the horrors of Hitler we are lost and descend into disagreement.   It was much of the same disagreement HMHB and I had.   
 

So I return to my original question to @HR_Poke   If right wing authoritarianism isn’t fascism than what is it?  

That speaks to your argument. I mostly agree with what HR’s quote. What I disagreed with was HR’s assertion that populism is solely the domain of the left. This author would seem to agree.

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6 hours ago, youngredbullfan said:

 

Fascist movements are definitely populist. Their populist sales pitch can just be boiled down to "hate the others". This is in contrast with the leftist populist pitch, which can be boiled down to, "eat the rich." 

Fify

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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I've always considered populism more of a method than an ideology. It to me always answered the question of "how?" More than the question of "why?"

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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