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Arizona farmers to take big water cut back next year

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Just now, SharkTanked said:

They CAN be changed, but politicians keep kicking the can down the road while Lake Mead dries up. 

Every time they change them CA ends up with more water.  Wyoming and CO get totally +++++ed on the CO River compact, so I don't have a ton of sympathy for Las Vegas or CA.  That's our snow melt and we get a pittance that we keep at the flaming gorge reservoir.

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Just now, 702Canary said:

So disingenuous to my point.  Also it has been tried to get changed many times.  Despite population growth etc.  No changes.

For the record, I am for farmers getting larger allotments than urban areas.  However it isn't even close to equitable anymore and it's unsustainable.

They change the compact all the time.  Like 9 times out of 10 it's CA getting more water.

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1 minute ago, HR_Poke said:

They change the compact all the time.  Like 9 times out of 10 it's CA getting more water.

BECAUSE IT'S BASED OFF FARM LAND-AG USE.  And they use it.  In fact, they go out of their way to use as much as they possibly can.  To the point of wasting it if needed to keep their allotment.

You are so disingenous.

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Just now, 702Canary said:

BECAUSE IT'S BASED OFF FARM LAND-AG USE.  And they use it.  In fact, they go out of their way to use as much as they possibly can.

You are so disingenous.

I'm disingenuous?  You're the one backtracking on some outlandish and idiotic statement that the compact can't be changed.

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12 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Mexico has no water, atleast from the CO River. We use most of it up.  

They get a trickle. I can't remember the exact amount, but iirc it's less than 200k af. It's not enough to keep a flow going to the Gulf of California. It just dissipates into the desert south of Mexicali. They get screwed most of all. 

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12 minutes ago, 702Canary said:

BECAUSE IT'S BASED OFF FARM LAND-AG USE.  And they use it.  In fact, they go out of their way to use as much as they possibly can.  To the point of wasting it if needed to keep their allotment.

You are so disingenous.

Yeah why grow lettuce when we can have giant evaporation features like this:

 

th.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

They get a trickle. I can't remember the exact amount, but iirc it's less than 200k af. It's not enough to keep a flow going to the Gulf of California. It just dissipates into the desert south of Mexicali. They get screwed most of all. 

Yes they do.  Completely destroyed the river delta in Mexico.

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2 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Yeah why grow lettuce when we can have giant evaporation features like this:

 

th.jpg

Hoover dam was a stupid project too, so many AF lost to evaporation...  same with elephant butte in NM.  Who puts reservoirs in the desert?

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6 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Yeah why grow lettuce when we can have giant evaporation features like this:

 

th.jpg

That's all reclamated water numbnuts.  You would know this if you knew things before you tried to talk shit.  But please go on about all the golf courses wasting water out here as well lmfao.

PS - Casinos and gold courses are required to install water reclamation units.

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2 minutes ago, 702Canary said:

No.  They have not changed the agreement.  They have changed the allotments based on the 100 yr old agreement.

The allotment percentages are the agreement.  You don't seem to understand the compact at all.

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4 minutes ago, 702Canary said:

That's all reclamated water numbnuts.  You would know this if you knew things before you tried to talk shit.  But please go on about all the golf courses wasting water out here as well lmfao.

PS - Casinos are required to install water reclamation units.

lol. Water is water. It's still a complete waste. If it's treated a bit more it's potable. Instead it's vapor.

We built cities where they shouldn't be. If we had to subsist on our own supplies. San Diego would be 1/10th the size, and Vegas probably wouldn't exist at all.

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6 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Pumping water from Oregon would involve a lot more than just getting over the Tehachapis. IMO the cost and the regulatory hurdles are insurmountable. And besides, look at the mess we’ve created moving the water from the Colorado. You really want to double down with the Columbia? Better to learn to live within our means. 

 

The idea is absurd, frankly.  Even ignoring the ecological damage that may (would) happen, especially during drought years, the Columbia is an inland deep water port.  No way Washington, Oregon or even Idaho would go along with that nonsense.  We have used and abused the Columbia enough already without California thinking they deserve a straw into it, too.  

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37 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Every time they change them CA ends up with more water.  Wyoming and CO get totally +++++ed on the CO River compact, so I don't have a ton of sympathy for Las Vegas or CA.  That's our snow melt and we get a pittance that we keep at the flaming gorge reservoir.

Meh. It's the west side. Almost none of your population is on the west side of the Rockies for a reason. Most of your state's acreage is on the east side of the Great Divide too. All of that was purposeful. I don't have a ton of sympathy for the upper basin states. They have other sources. Lower basin states... not so much. Besides like 5 people live in Wyoming.

One of the biggest problems is that human migration, particularly in the lower basin states, is not accounted for in allocations. How many So Cal residents do we get moving here per year? And what about the water for them? 

A system needs to be devised that reconfigures the CO River Compact, at least every 10 years to tie to the census and accounts for revised water allocation based on migrations between lower basin states and net population changes. At least in the lower basin where the issue is much more severe.

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1 minute ago, SharkTanked said:

Meh. It's the west side. Almost none of your population is on the west side of the Rockies for a reason. Most of your state's acreage is on the east side of the Great Divide too. All of that was purposeful. I don't have a ton of sympathy for the upper basin states. They have other sources. Lower basin states... not so much. Besides like 5 people live in Wyoming.

One of the biggest problems is that human migration, particularly in the lower basin states, is not accounted for in allocations. How many So Cal residents do we get moving here per year? And what about the water for them? 

A system needs to be devised that reconfigures the CO River Compact, at least every 10 years to tie to the census and accounts for revised water allocation based on migrations between lower basin states and net population changes. At least in the lower basin where the issue is much more severe.

I agree with that. But it also has to be based on realistic projections of yield rather than the current numbers. I think there should also be mandatory conservation measures. No lawns for example and mandatory use of reclaimed water for all landscape irrigation. 

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7 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

Meh. It's the west side. Almost none of your population is on the west side of the Rockies for a reason. Most of your state's acreage is on the east side of the Great Divide too. All of that was purposeful. I don't have a ton of sympathy for the upper basin states. They have other sources. Lower basin states... not so much. Besides like 5 people live in Wyoming.

One of the biggest problems is that human migration, particularly in the lower basin states, is not accounted for in allocations. How many So Cal residents do we get moving here per year? And what about the water for them? 

A system needs to be devised that reconfigures the CO River Compact, at least every 10 years to tie to the census and accounts for revised water allocation based on migrations between lower basin states and net population changes. At least in the lower basin where the issue is much more severe.

We have other sources, but a significant chunk of our agriculture is on the western slope.  CA should be running off desalination and not taking any CO water.

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3 hours ago, 702Canary said:

So should native americans have rights to their land over states?  First in!!!

My understanding is that they technically do if you're talking water rights. They just dont have the means to exercise their rights. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Question to @Old_SD_Dude or whomever else knows. What percent of the CO river allocations are controlled by the feds? Are there local and/or state agencies who draw any significant amounts from the colorado through their own senior rights, or is it basically all controlled and this distributed by the feds and thru the compact?

The colorado river is the biggest hole in my knowledge of california water stuff.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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