Conference Realignment thread

[UNLV2001]

18 minutes ago, Aztec1984 said:

I never said the PAC would lose schools to the B12. I said the BIG (as in Big 10 which is actually 14).

Again, BB isn't driving the bus. That is football. In order to get to 40K average attendance you just need to double what you did in 2019. Good luck with that. You aren't in the PAC yet, wake up.

I seriously doubt the PAC brings in any B12 team.

I spent time in both the UC system as well as SDSU. The PAC isn't going to "relax" standards to bring you in, especially when you don't bring in anything athletically to pay your own way. SDSU brings in more and we won't get an invite.

As I have said numerous times on here, I don't see the PAC adding anyone. They are more likely to get poached than poach.

After Texas & Oklahoma leave.......the next best asset in the B12 is Kansas basketball - after that it get hit & miss with programs that have been good, but also rise & fall - So i'd bet KU hoops get's plucked to the B10 or even ACC - who else in the B12 has the long haul rep to get bailed out of the B12.........KU might want a package deal with KSU & pairing up keeps the numbers even 

I could see the B12 reduced to 8 or less teams.........not sure adding BYU & some MWC AAC keeps that cross continent conference relevant other than being the best of the worst which is what the AAC is now 

[Someone Else]

9 minutes ago, Aztec1984 said:

I live in a city where we have a MLB team. However, my golf buddies like to go up to Lake Elsinore and take in a Storm game. They are low A ball. It is a different experience. There is already a distinct difference, as I pointed out, between a high G5, an established P5 and the cream of the crop. People in this country go to MSL games. The MSL doesn't compare with the EPL,  Bundesliga, or La Liga in any way or form. The fans know this, and yet still attend and view on TV. A lot of that is just following your team.

No, we aren't going to be paying players a million bucks, we won't be making $100 million per year but, perhaps we can provide a more simple, purer experience. People are already tuning out when it comes to the NFL, largely because they don't identify with the pampered players, overpaid players.

I don't think there will be enough interest to pay the cost of it.  Sure some people will still want to watch games. 

My pessimism arises from the fact that athletic departments lose money.  Without money sports won't happen.

[Billings]

3 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

I don't think there will be enough interest to pay the cost of it.  Sure some people will still want to watch games. 

My pessimism arises from the fact that athletic departments lose money.  Without money sports won't happen.

Sports will happen.  Just in a different form than they are today

[raadsel]

13 minutes ago, Aztec1984 said:

I live in a city where we have a MLB team. However, my golf buddies like to go up to Lake Elsinore and take in a Storm game. They are low A ball. It is a different experience. There is already a distinct difference, as I pointed out, between a high G5, an established P5 and the cream of the crop. People in this country go to MSL games. The MSL doesn't compare with the EPL,  Bundesliga, or La Liga in any way or form. The fans know this, and yet still attend and view on TV. A lot of that is just following your team.

No, we aren't going to be paying players a million bucks, we won't be making $100 million per year but, perhaps we can provide a more simple, purer experience. People are already tuning out when it comes to the NFL, largely because they don't identify with the pampered players, overpaid players.

Anecdotes are not evidence. Yes, there will still be some that come to games. At the same time, what is the average attendance at Storm's games vs. average attendance at Padre's games?

The MSL isn't a good comparison since to see that "higher level" you have to cross an ocean. Even so, it is worth pointing out that average attendance for MLS is low compared to European top level games.

[e-zone99]

56 minutes ago, Aztec1984 said:

I live in a city where we have a MLB team. However, my golf buddies like to go up to Lake Elsinore and take in a Storm game. They are low A ball. It is a different experience. There is already a distinct difference, as I pointed out, between a high G5, an established P5 and the cream of the crop. People in this country go to MSL games. The MSL doesn't compare with the EPL,  Bundesliga, or La Liga in any way or form. The fans know this, and yet still attend and view on TV. A lot of that is just following your team.

No, we aren't going to be paying players a million bucks, we won't be making $100 million per year but, perhaps we can provide a more simple, purer experience. People are already tuning out when it comes to the NFL, largely because they don't identify with the pampered players, overpaid players.

I have to wonder, what happens if Alabama's starting QB goes down with a season ending injury in Fall camp?  What's the 2nd team QB get?  Or 3rd or 4th?

 

[Aztec1984]

51 minutes ago, raadsel said:

Anecdotes are not evidence. Yes, there will still be some that come to games. At the same time, what is the average attendance at Storm's games vs. average attendance at Padre's games?

The MSL isn't a good comparison since to see that "higher level" you have to cross an ocean. Even so, it is worth pointing out that average attendance for MLS is low compared to European top level games.

About 2500. Are you comparing Lake Elsinore to San Diego in terms of population? They are lower A ball., not AA or AAA by the way.

Again, if you want to go to a football game in San Diego where do you go? We might do a bit better with this current realignment or we might end up about the same. There will still be a market for non professional football in this country for at least some time in the future. As I understand it, SDSU has sold some 80% of their club seating so far. Those aren't cheap, from what I've heard. They are selling them despite still being in the MWC. There is a bit of history here. SDSU has never been in a big time conference yet the football program remains. The modern passing game was invented here.

I watch the EPL on TV. Isn't that where the real money is, from TV? I don't watch the MSL. Were San Diego to have a MSL team, perhaps I would. I'm guessing the MSL teams, for the most part, make money. 

[sactowndog]

2 hours ago, Aztec1984 said:

I never said the PAC would lose schools to the B12. I said the BIG (as in Big 10 which is actually 14).

Again, BB isn't driving the bus. That is football. In order to get to 40K average attendance you just need to double what you did in 2019. Good luck with that. You aren't in the PAC yet, wake up.

I seriously doubt the PAC brings in any B12 team.

I spent time in both the UC system as well as SDSU. The PAC isn't going to "relax" standards to bring you in, especially when you don't bring in anything athletically to pay your own way. SDSU brings in more and we won't get an invite.

As I have said numerous times on here, I don't see the PAC adding anyone. They are more likely to get poached than poach.

 

 

 

 

I agree but I wonder if Fox Sports and ESPN which owns the Big 12 and the PAC-12 might get involved here... Fox has the opportunity to +++++ CBS and lock them out of the 7:00 pm time-slot while also creating a compelling match-up for the Friday night spots.....

If Fox gets involved them I think you might see a PAC-12 / Big-12 merger with them throwing money at Texas and Oklahoma.

Fox could well remake and own football west of the Mississippi. It would be a two step process...

step 1: through a **** load of money to create a PAC 12/Big 12 merge

Create a merged Big 12/PAC-12:

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona
East: Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Tech, TCU, Iowa State, West Virginia

Then you create a remade Big 12 with slightly less dollars but decent:
East: Memphis, Houston, SMU, Baylor, New Mexico, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Colorado State
West: Washington State, Oregon State, Arizona State, BYU, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV

Each team plays 7 games in division with one crossover and one rival game.

SMU/TCU
Houston/Texas
Baylor/Tech 
Oklahoma/Oklahoma State 
Kansas State/Kansas
Colorado/Colorado State
BYU/ Utah
Washington / Washington State
Arizona/ Arizona State
Oregon/ Oregon State
Fresno State / Cal
SDSU / UCLA

Other outside 
USC/ Notre Dame
Stanford Notre Dame
West Virginia / Pitt
Memphis /?
Boise/?
New Mexico / UTEP 

This model basically guts ESPN West of the Mississippi and makes it hard to cover the 7:00 pm west coast time-slot.

It also gives you an interesting rivalry game almost every week after during the 9 game conference season.  
Blood Feud Friday anyone????

[Aztec1984]

11 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

I agree but I wonder if Fox Sports which owns the Big 12 and the PAC-12 might get involved here... Fox has the opportunity to +++++ ESPN and lock them out of the 7:00 pm time-slot while also creating a compelling match-up for the Friday night spots.....

If Fox gets involved them I think you might see a PAC-12 / Big-12 merger with them throwing money at Texas and Oklahoma.

Fox could well remake and own football west of the Mississippi. It would be a two step process...

step 1: through a **** load of money to create a PAC 12/Big 12 merge

Create a merged Big 12/PAC-12:

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona
East: Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Tech, TCU, Iowa State, West Virginia

Then you create a remade Big 12 with slightly less dollars but decent:
East: Memphis, Houston, SMU, Baylor, New Mexico, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Colorado State
West: Washington State, Oregon State, Arizona State, BYU, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV

Each team plays 7 games in division with one crossover and one rival game.

SMU/TCU
Houston/Texas
Baylor/Tech 
Oklahoma/Oklahoma State 
Kansas State/Kansas
Colorado/Colorado State
BYU/ Utah
Washington / Washington State
Arizona/ Arizona State
Oregon/ Oregon State
Fresno State / Cal
SDSU / UCLA

Other outside 
USC/ Notre Dame
Stanford Notre Dame
West Virginia / Pitt
Memphis /?
Boise/?
New Mexico / UTEP 

This model basically guts ESPN West of the Mississippi and makes it hard to cover the 7:00 pm west coast time-slot.

It also gives you an interesting rivalry game almost every week after during the 9 game conference season.  
Blood Feud Friday anyone????

The PAC isn't doing anything, UT and OK are going to the SEC which is a much better option for them. The SEC is already the premier football conference. The PAC is 4th. Were UT and OK to go to the PAC then the SEC would bring in OSU and MI from the BIG/10 which we are already hearing rumors they have been talking with.

[sactowndog]

29 minutes ago, Aztec1984 said:

The PAC isn't doing anything, UT and OK are going to the SEC which is a much better option for them. The SEC is already the premier football conference. The PAC is 4th. Were UT and OK to go to the PAC then the SEC would bring in OSU and MI from the BIG/10 which we are already hearing rumors they have been talking with.

OSU and MI aren’t going to the SEC.  

Also in my model, those top AAU schools could set up a research consortium similar to the CIC with a large number of Tier 1 AAU institutions... 

Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa State, Texas, are all currently AAU schools.   If a research consortium were made part of it (research brings in billions), I suspect they could probably steal Missouri who is also a research member instead of West Virginia.   At that point, only Oklahoma, TCU and Tech aren’t AAU schools.  It would not be hard to promise to work with Oklahoma to get a spot in the AAU.  That spot is worth far more than membership in the SEC money wise. 

[bornsilverandblue]

2 hours ago, Ibanez said:

Everyone Ikes Timmy B. Sounds like he thinks the B1G and PAC are next to do something based on what he has been told and not told.

https://twitter.com/TimBrando/status/1419877602991484938?s=19

Looks like the tweet was deleted.

[Billings]

6 hours ago, Aztec1984 said:

In the 23 years of the BCS there have been 12 different champions. In the last 10 years there have been just 5. You are way high in your 10-15 school estimate.

Oh these all “could”

alabama

clemson

notre dame

lsu

florida

ohio state

USC

oklahoma

maybe:

oregon

auburn

michigan

penn State

 

nah I stick to 10-15

 

 

[kalua pig]

21 hours ago, MWC Tex said:

ND isn’t budging from Indy.  They have a path with 6 at large spots in the new CFP format.

 

for the p4 conspiracy to work,all teams outside the 64 are division 2. join or be left out. notre dame will hold out in the meantime,but in the end,they will obey.

[bornsilverandblue]

2 hours ago, kalua pig said:

for the p4 conspiracy to work,all teams outside the 64 are division 2. join or be left out. notre dame will hold out in the meantime,but in the end,they will obey.

Fun fact about the P4 conspiracy: it involves 65 teams, not 64. Who gets left out?

[Someone]

6 hours ago, sactowndog said:

OSU and MI aren’t going to the SEC.  

Also in my model, those top AAU schools could set up a research consortium similar to the CIC with a large number of Tier 1 AAU institutions... 

Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa State, Texas, are all currently AAU schools.   If a research consortium were made part of it (research brings in billions), I suspect they could probably steal Missouri who is also a research member instead of West Virginia.   At that point, only Oklahoma, TCU and Tech aren’t AAU schools.  It would not be hard to promise to work with Oklahoma to get a spot in the AAU.  That spot is worth far more than membership in the SEC money wise. 

the CIC aspect is highly overrated

1. the CIC provides no money in fact is is an expense for members to have it administered.....it does facilitate the purchasing of things like lab equipment, lab consumables, and other items needed for research, but there are a number of those purchasing groups in academia

2. it does help them have an easier time coordinating large grants and transferring the money around, but these days with the internet and computers ect it is much easier to do that and there are other organizations that do similar things

3, the real advantage is probably familiarity and the fact that so many of their researchers have worked together it means they turn to each other sooner....but again the internet and computers has opened things up for everyone

4, Nebraska has not really seen a significant jump in their total research since being in the Big 10 and the rate of growth of their research is at or below a couple of similar former conference mates in the Big 12 and the same with federally financed research dollars

5. U Chicago a founding member did not bat an eye at being ask to leave the CIC so it could be members that were also in the conference for sports

6. Johns Hopkins when they joined the Big 10 for an Olympic sport was offered to be in the CIC and declined....they have the largest research budget in the USA for a university....they just did not see the need

it is a benefit, but it is as much or more a convenience and no program is going to switch conferences based on a similar organization with no real funding and an actual slight expense

[Jalapeno]

 

[RebelRobert]

26 minutes ago, Jalapeno said:

 

If a school (Texas/OU) paid the exit fee to the Big-12 and left their Grant of Rights for Television (until 2024/25) behind to join the SEC next year (2022/23), would their games still be shown on television and would the Big-12/TV Partners have any say about what time the SEC schedules home games for OU/Texas?  Since they still own the 1st/2nd tier TV rights.

Big-12/ESPN/Fox would own the OU/Texas TV rights on all home games until 2024/25.

What if Texas/OU played all games on the road or neutral site until 2024/25?

[Hoser]

If and when OU and UT move out of the B12 I will be most interested in seeing what happens with the B12 left overs more specifically Texas Tech and KSU.  Is it possible that TT and KSU might have to become part of the MWC?  I don't see any MWC schools getting an invite to either the PAC or definitely any of the other mega conferences.  

What will the MWC look like after the smoke clears and who might be joining us at that point?

[ph90702]

10 minutes ago, RebelRobert said:

If a school (Texas/OU) paid the exit fee to the Big-12 and left their Grant of Rights for Television (until 2024/25) behind to join the SEC next year (2022/23), would their games still be shown on television and would the Big-12/TV Partners have any say about what time the SEC schedules home games for OU/Texas?  Since they still own the 1st/2nd tier TV rights.

Big-12/ESPN/Fox would own the OU/Texas TV rights on all home games until 2024/25.

What if Texas/OU played all games on the road or neutral site until 2024/25?

Texas and Oklahoma will play in the Big 12 next year and possibly the year after that.  2023-24 is the latest they’ll be in the SEC. They will work out a settlement with the Big 12 regarding everything.

[RebelRobert]

This would be a god damn dream come true for the MWC!

BYU out of our hair, hurts the WCC (or wherever they play now) in Basketball.

BEST OF ALL - Terrible Air Force gone forever!

We should see if the Big-12 wants SJSU or Utah State while we are at it.

All of our MWC problems solved at once.

[RSF]

11 hours ago, UofMTigers said:

UL and UC left us behind in 2005...2006-2009 was Calipari's run at Memphis

You mean the one where the best year was one where Derrick Rose was declared ineligible and the NCAA wiped out the results?

 

 

 

Epic.