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13 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

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I think this will end up a high stakes game of chicken. OU/UT obviously want out without having to pay. Schools like Tech, Ok State, K State, WVU want out if those two leave, but they want that golden parachute of exit fees and tourney credits for OU/UT first. With a golden parachute they can go to the Pac-12 and ACC and say, “we can do a Nebraska and wait 8 years for a full payout”; the exit fees and tourney credits will make up the difference so they aren’t taking a pay cut, and taking partial payouts ensures the existing Pac-12/ACC schools get a bump in revenue.

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1 hour ago, SalinasSpartan said:

So the reports that OU and UT have informed the Big 12 that they plan to join the SEC are drawing inferences, right? Didn’t they only make the decision not to renew their GOR? Im not saying they haven’t made up their minds, but there is an important distinction between the two. By not “officially” announcing their intentions they still are ostensibly regular Big 12 members; meaning they can vote. I’m guessing the strategy is to wait it out and hope the remaining 8 schools get nervous and seek out ACC/B1G/Pac-12 invites and they can then get the 6 other votes needed to dissolve the conference so they can join the SEC without having to pay anything but their entry fee. 

this is incorrect

the 99 year contract for conference membership with the Big 12 requires notification to the conference within 12 HOURS of any contact with ANYONE about leaving the Big 12 and it requires a response of no interest to the person making contact in a form that "acceptable to the commissioner" within that same 12 hours

failure to do either of those things means you no longer have voting rights in the conference

https://static.big12sports.com/custompages/pdfs/handbook/bylaws.pdf

 

Withdrawing Member. A Member (a “Withdrawing Member”) may Withdraw, or shall be deemed to have Withdrawn, as a Member of the Conference: (i) if it gives notice of the intent to Withdraw to the Conference; or (ii) if a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors by affirmative vote determines that such Member: (A) makes statements or takes actions that are determined by a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors to evidence the intent of such Member to withdraw from the Conference either currently or in the future; (B) breaches or evidences its intent to breach or not honor and fully comply with its obligations to the Conference under these Bylaws or the Grant of Rights Agreement for the entirety of the respective terms thereof; (C) if a third party offers to, or attempts to induce a Member to, leave the Conference and/or breach or not to fully perform its future obligations under the Grant of Rights Agreement and the Member does not both (1) inform the Conference of such action as promptly as possible (but in any event not later than twelve (12) hours after such action) and (2) immediately and unconditionally reject that offer in a form and manner reasonably acceptable to the Commissioner; or (D) if a Member otherwise takes or fails to take actions that are determined by a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors to be contrary to the best interests of the Conference taken as a whole.

 

 

YOU WANT TRADITION? WELL......HERE 'TIS......The University of North Texas has football wins over: Texas Tech U......Rice U......Baylor U......TCU......SMU......Houston......Oklahoma State......San Diego St.......Kansas State......Arizona State.......Colorado State......Brigham Young......Oregon State......Florida......Indiana......Tennessee (a 6 & 5 SEC team & still our biggest win in school history)......Boise State......Louisville......Cincinatti (our last match-up with UC was a UNT bowl win), plus FOUR (4) NCAA FBS level Bowl Games (one while having a losing season record) in this millennium's 1'st decade while North Texas has had ONE NCAA Division 1 Top 20 ranking.

The North Texas Mean Green Village (located between 2 Texas interstates & which a recent TxDOT study said 200,000 vehicles drive by it daily) is a multi-acre olympic style village of athletc venues*dorms*computer study centers, etc, topped off with what GIL BRANDT: The Father of Modern NFL Scouting who described UNT's Apogee Stadium as a "Tah Mahal of a College Football Stadium" with Brandt adding... 'and I've seen every NCAA D1 FB stadium in the USA." All this along with UNT's fabulous 10,000 seat Super Pit--the Best & Largest on-campus college basketball venue in the D-FW Metroplex......AND THREE PONDS AND A BRIDGE!!!!!

 

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2 minutes ago, Someone said:

this is incorrect

the 99 year contract for conference membership with the Big 12 requires notification to the conference within 12 HOURS of any contact with ANYONE about leaving the Big 12 and it requires a response of no interest to the person making contact in a form that "acceptable to the commissioner" within that same 12 hours

failure to do either of those things means you no longer have voting rights in the conference

https://static.big12sports.com/custompages/pdfs/handbook/bylaws.pdf

 

Withdrawing Member. A Member (a “Withdrawing Member”) may Withdraw, or shall be deemed to have Withdrawn, as a Member of the Conference: (i) if it gives notice of the intent to Withdraw to the Conference; or (ii) if a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors by affirmative vote determines that such Member: (A) makes statements or takes actions that are determined by a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors to evidence the intent of such Member to withdraw from the Conference either currently or in the future; (B) breaches or evidences its intent to breach or not honor and fully comply with its obligations to the Conference under these Bylaws or the Grant of Rights Agreement for the entirety of the respective terms thereof; (C) if a third party offers to, or attempts to induce a Member to, leave the Conference and/or breach or not to fully perform its future obligations under the Grant of Rights Agreement and the Member does not both (1) inform the Conference of such action as promptly as possible (but in any event not later than twelve (12) hours after such action) and (2) immediately and unconditionally reject that offer in a form and manner reasonably acceptable to the Commissioner; or (D) if a Member otherwise takes or fails to take actions that are determined by a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors to be contrary to the best interests of the Conference taken as a whole.

 

 

The only thing the lawyers have to discuss is money. 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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I found this excerpt from ESPN pretty good

Quote

Matt Brown of the great Extra Points newsletter went on a very useful rant last week on the "Going for Two" podcast that he hosts with Bryan Fischer. He acknowledged that at lower levels of the sport, revenue upgrades can lead to specific changes that improve the athlete or student experience -- higher scholarship levels, lower student fees, etc. -- but noted that it's very different at the top level of the sport.

"Did any Big Ten school, and for that matter, literally any Power 5 school over the last decade add a single sport that increased scholarship opportunities for athletes?" he asked. "The answer is no. ... What did happen is, a bunch of coaches got a lot more money, a bunch of facilities that don't really improve recruiting got built to the point where freakin' Northwestern has a space station and is recruiting almost exactly the same kind of athlete as it was before because it's Northwestern."

Texas was already winning the Learfield Cup (and struggling, relatively speaking, at football). OU was already a nearly annual CFP presence and a powerhouse in other sports like softball. They both will have more impressive home schedules to sell to fans, but they were already selling lots of tickets. And in this instance, OU might be voluntarily forfeiting a nearly annual bye in a future 12-team CFP with this move.

One of the biggest things to watch moving forward, actually, is whether any of the proposed elements of a future 12-team playoff now change because of this move -- namely, the requirement that the top four seeds (and first-round byes) continue to be reserved for conference champions. It was honestly one of my favorite parts of the proposal, but if the SEC is looking at having one third of the 12-team field or more, it might be able to apply pressure to get that clause removed. If it doesn't, then while OU will likely continue to land in plenty of CFPs moving forward, it will be doing so as a No. 6 or No. 10 seed, for example, and not a No. 3. Maybe that's a worthwhile trade; maybe the opportunity to tailgate with LSU fans and occasionally visit the Grove is worth diminishing your odds of winning a national title. But it's not hard to see some discontent on the horizon, too.

ESPN+ Article

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10 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

We're building a $350,000,000 stadium.  Not playing football in not an option. It's set to open in 2022 against  conference foe The University of  Arizona. :cheer:

As you know, the decision for the campus extension & football stadium was made a while ago.  But, yes, of course for now, SDSU is all in.  But my guess is SDSU is currently thinking... 'holy sheets.  i hope we don't miss out.' with fingers crossed while rubbing a rabbits foot. 

NIL will make this ugly and things may change rapidly.  There is only so much $$ to go around and the $$ that goes to student athletes is not going to the university.

Just an opinion... and my opinions are often incorrect.

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2 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

Is this news?  I thought everyone was aware of this.

Let me translate it for you. Some dude from ESPN just rolled out of bed looked at his twitter feed and a couple of random dudes were repeating something they'd heard last week. So ESPN dude thinks hey this is a scoop and then tweets it out like he's some kind of ace investigative reporter. 

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6 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

The only thing the lawyers have to discuss is money. 

but the specific reply was to the idea that Texas and OU are still going to be voting in the Big 12 because they said "we are not going to renew the GOR" not "we are leaving for sure

the fact that Texas and OU have been in contact with ANYONE about leaving the Big 12 and did not let the conference know means their voting rights can be terminated

I agree that Texas and OU will pay....I think they will pay the full $85 million or so in exit fees and I think they would be willing to pay about 20% more to not have to fight over the separate GOR and to break it and take their media rights with them immediately after this year.....that would be a total of about $102 million each to leave with no fight

one needs to keep in mind that a GOR the way they are written requires the member that is leaving to prove damages.....it is hard to prove you are damages when YOU willingly broke a contract and even harder to claim that while claiming the other party is NOT damaged....plenty of lawyers would love to run up billables fighting that, but it seems like a had thing to win

plus Texas and OU have both enforced exit fees two times in the past against four teams.....CU and NU then Texas A&M and MU

and those were weaker contracts than this one.....hard to argue that you should not pay exit fees when you have collected them 2X in the past

I think they will both just pay and go

YOU WANT TRADITION? WELL......HERE 'TIS......The University of North Texas has football wins over: Texas Tech U......Rice U......Baylor U......TCU......SMU......Houston......Oklahoma State......San Diego St.......Kansas State......Arizona State.......Colorado State......Brigham Young......Oregon State......Florida......Indiana......Tennessee (a 6 & 5 SEC team & still our biggest win in school history)......Boise State......Louisville......Cincinatti (our last match-up with UC was a UNT bowl win), plus FOUR (4) NCAA FBS level Bowl Games (one while having a losing season record) in this millennium's 1'st decade while North Texas has had ONE NCAA Division 1 Top 20 ranking.

The North Texas Mean Green Village (located between 2 Texas interstates & which a recent TxDOT study said 200,000 vehicles drive by it daily) is a multi-acre olympic style village of athletc venues*dorms*computer study centers, etc, topped off with what GIL BRANDT: The Father of Modern NFL Scouting who described UNT's Apogee Stadium as a "Tah Mahal of a College Football Stadium" with Brandt adding... 'and I've seen every NCAA D1 FB stadium in the USA." All this along with UNT's fabulous 10,000 seat Super Pit--the Best & Largest on-campus college basketball venue in the D-FW Metroplex......AND THREE PONDS AND A BRIDGE!!!!!

 

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1 hour ago, Ibanez said:

Dude you need to keep up.

And the Sunbelt is nowhere near MWC level.

You’re right, they would have made the playoff last season . 
 

And it’s not about me keeping up, my circles just aren’t hearing these far fetched scenarios being thrown around here.  When the dust settles I just don’t think there’s going to be as much movement as some are hoping here.  I also think long term many will have to come to grips with the aac not only surviving but coming out of this ok.

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47 minutes ago, Someone said:

this is incorrect

the 99 year contract for conference membership with the Big 12 requires notification to the conference within 12 HOURS of any contact with ANYONE about leaving the Big 12 and it requires a response of no interest to the person making contact in a form that "acceptable to the commissioner" within that same 12 hours

failure to do either of those things means you no longer have voting rights in the conference

https://static.big12sports.com/custompages/pdfs/handbook/bylaws.pdf

 

Withdrawing Member. A Member (a “Withdrawing Member”) may Withdraw, or shall be deemed to have Withdrawn, as a Member of the Conference: (i) if it gives notice of the intent to Withdraw to the Conference; or (ii) if a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors by affirmative vote determines that such Member: (A) makes statements or takes actions that are determined by a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors to evidence the intent of such Member to withdraw from the Conference either currently or in the future; (B) breaches or evidences its intent to breach or not honor and fully comply with its obligations to the Conference under these Bylaws or the Grant of Rights Agreement for the entirety of the respective terms thereof; (C) if a third party offers to, or attempts to induce a Member to, leave the Conference and/or breach or not to fully perform its future obligations under the Grant of Rights Agreement and the Member does not both (1) inform the Conference of such action as promptly as possible (but in any event not later than twelve (12) hours after such action) and (2) immediately and unconditionally reject that offer in a form and manner reasonably acceptable to the Commissioner; or (D) if a Member otherwise takes or fails to take actions that are determined by a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors to be contrary to the best interests of the Conference taken as a whole.

 

 

Something tells me that discussions were done in such a way where the SEC did not formally offer OU/UT invitations and the documented communications between the two parties were kept vague enough that it could be argued there was no inducing.

I mean, it’s almost like these athletic departments and conference offices are staffed with a bunch of highly educated people, many of whom went to elite law schools. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Someone Else said:

As you know, the decision for the campus extension & football stadium was made a while ago.  But, yes, of course for now, SDSU is all in.  But my guess is SDSU is currently thinking... 'holy sheets.  i hope we don't miss out.' with fingers crossed while rubbing a rabbits foot. 

"Timing is everything." - John Sculley

Kudos to UT and OU for not doing this 2-3 years ago or we wouldn't be building a new stadium and might not even be expanding the campus by 166 acres. But the stadium is now a complete go and they've already sold thousands of season tickets. I've already paid for my season seats for 2022 - for which I'm paying about triple what I paid in that old dump - and I've committed to continue to pay for them for another four years in the unlikely event I should decide to back out and the university can't find someone to buy them.

Nothing, NOTHING, shows a commitment to football like building a new stadium and that should speak volumes when the B12 leftovers entertain proposals to add four schools to replace OU and UT and two more to get back to a number which coincides with the conference's actual name or when, not if, the P12 expands again.

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1 hour ago, Someone Else said:

As you know, the decision for the campus extension & football stadium was made a while ago.  But, yes, of course for now, SDSU is all in.  But my guess is SDSU is currently thinking... 'holy sheets.  i hope we don't miss out.' with fingers crossed while rubbing a rabbits foot. 

NIL will make this ugly and things may change rapidly.  There is only so much $$ to go around and the $$ that goes to student athletes is not going to the university.

Just an opinion... and my opinions are often incorrect.

College football will still be played in San Diego. There is no competition. We drew about 30K per game in the old stadium, which was a poor football venue. The new stadium will put people closer to the action so the experience will be a better one. Yeah, we may still be playing the same MWC foes and other G6 teams, but people will still to watch a football game and there is a reason whey we kept the stadium on the smaller side. It creates demand by limiting supply.

00126-SDSUvArizona-main.jpg

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14 minutes ago, RebelRobert said:

Don't worry MWC fans.  Craig is running things!

Happy Hour Drinking GIF

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thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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Texas and OU have agreed to play out the remainder of their contract which ends in 2025. I think they will play 2-3 years and then the exit fee would be half to a quarter of what it would be now. That would also give the remainder of the B-12 time to stabilize and become the top G-6 program by poaching whomever they target and go after in the G-5. I don't think that the Big-10 will add anybody unless they can get a few Pac schools. If that happens then there will be two mega super conferences and then all the rest.

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1 minute ago, wolf from 73 said:

Texas and OU have agreed to play out the remainder of their contract which ends in 2025. I think they will play 2-3 years and then the exit fee would be half to a quarter of what it would be now. That would also give the remainder of the B-12 time to stabilize and become the top G-6 program by poaching whomever they target and go after in the G-5.

It will not go well them playing this year in the Big 12.  I am sure they all will want it to be over as soon possible.  I am guessing they are likely gone by 2022/23 and gone for sure by the 2023/24 season.  Nobody will want to prolong this and the new Big 12 members are not going to want to wait to come on board.

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3 minutes ago, wolf from 73 said:

Texas and OU have agreed to play out the remainder of their contract which ends in 2025. I think they will play 2-3 years and then the exit fee would be half to a quarter of what it would be now. That would also give the remainder of the B-12 time to stabilize and become the top G-6 program by poaching whomever they target and go after in the G-5.

the exit fee is two years prior distributions

it does not change because the GOR ends it is what it is

the only way the exit fee would go down is if Texas and OU were in the conference for a year or longer with a weaker media rights deal that pays a lot less and the conference distributions go down

there is no "three year notification" and they "play two and pay something"

the exit fee to leave before 99 years from 2012 is 2 years prior distributions

 

as to the comment about universities filled with smart people some that went to law school or that teach law school......well universities use outside counsel for stuff like this.....and a lot law professors are really crappy lawyers

and the wording in the contract is not about "an offer" it is about any contact of any type at all....it is almost like a conference that had just lost 4 members and added two wanted to make it much harder to leave after they got back to 10 members and got their new media deals in place

YOU WANT TRADITION? WELL......HERE 'TIS......The University of North Texas has football wins over: Texas Tech U......Rice U......Baylor U......TCU......SMU......Houston......Oklahoma State......San Diego St.......Kansas State......Arizona State.......Colorado State......Brigham Young......Oregon State......Florida......Indiana......Tennessee (a 6 & 5 SEC team & still our biggest win in school history)......Boise State......Louisville......Cincinatti (our last match-up with UC was a UNT bowl win), plus FOUR (4) NCAA FBS level Bowl Games (one while having a losing season record) in this millennium's 1'st decade while North Texas has had ONE NCAA Division 1 Top 20 ranking.

The North Texas Mean Green Village (located between 2 Texas interstates & which a recent TxDOT study said 200,000 vehicles drive by it daily) is a multi-acre olympic style village of athletc venues*dorms*computer study centers, etc, topped off with what GIL BRANDT: The Father of Modern NFL Scouting who described UNT's Apogee Stadium as a "Tah Mahal of a College Football Stadium" with Brandt adding... 'and I've seen every NCAA D1 FB stadium in the USA." All this along with UNT's fabulous 10,000 seat Super Pit--the Best & Largest on-campus college basketball venue in the D-FW Metroplex......AND THREE PONDS AND A BRIDGE!!!!!

 

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