Conference Realignment thread

[Jack Bauer]

9 minutes ago, jdgaucho said:

 

In all fairness, those were reasonable expectations.  NIT champs, a pair of heralded future lottery picks coming to town.  They were a preseason top-15 team.

Then the year started...

Show me.

Have to go out and do it. Everyone thinks their team looks good on paper.

[jdgaucho]

6 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

Show me.

Have to go out and do it. Everyone thinks their team looks good on paper.

 

I know that all too well 

[AztecSU]

Big10 is considering dropping divisions and going to what sounds like a POD system. This is important because if the B10 moves this way I expect others to follow. Seems it would also help teams cycle through conference opponents faster, which may help overcome some of the issues created by 14/16 team conferences and only 8 or 9 conferences games a year. This is important to realignment because wide adoption of POD structured conferences will probably lead to further expansion. Another point, POD conferences can have odd numbers of teams, something that could lead to more selective expansion instead needing to do it in pairs.

https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten-discussing-potential-elimination-of-divisions-as-part-of-future-football-scheduling-plans/g0LD4tO9pYmP/

[NorCalCoug]

5 hours ago, wolfpack1 said:

For scheduling options, once WCC play, in most years, their SOS will take a hit because of the conference so they need to schedule those other games to prop them up, however they need home games in Spokane which they could be looking at with scheduling. If you get San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno St, UNLV, those are better teams to come to Spokane than North Alabama, Kennesaw St, etc like that. That is why maybe a scheduling agreement with MWC or such would make a lot more sense with them. They could still schedule the big guys but games with MWC teams can draw interest from fans from both sides.

The WCC has already steps to at least dampen the impact with conference scheduling.  Gonzaga won’t play bottom tier teams more than once in conference play. The conference has bent over backwards to accommodate the concerns of Gonzaga both from a financial and SOS perspective.  The MWC wouldn’t offer the same concessions.

[Wyobraska]

34 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

Big10 is considering dropping divisions and going to what sounds like a POD system. This is important because if the B10 moves this way I expect others to follow. Seems it would also help teams cycle through conference opponents faster, which may help overcome some of the issues created by 14/16 team conferences and only 8 or 9 conferences games a year. This is important to realignment because wide adoption of POD structured conferences will probably lead to further expansion. Another point, POD conferences can have odd numbers of teams, something that could lead to more selective expansion instead needing to do it in pairs.

https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten-discussing-potential-elimination-of-divisions-as-part-of-future-football-scheduling-plans/g0LD4tO9pYmP/

With conferences that big, pods will be a good and bad thing.  Old B1G schools will get mad at not playing some schools every year, but right now it is dumb when a kid graduates and might not play a school in his conference unless they meet in a title game.

[SalinasSpartan]

19 hours ago, NorCalCoug said:

Link to the AAC giving Wichita St a 70% share of a TV payout share?  I find that very difficult to believe.

I think I read that on here now that I think about it. I believe someone brought that up when I proposed we go after Wichita; they speculated that if they were getting a 70% they would probably at least have to pay 70% of the exit fee. 
 

So maybe it is a smaller percentage then 70, I dunno. But keep in mind, I was purposely being generous when I said the WCC’s tv deal is “less then a million”, because I’m guessing it’s closer to 100k per team then 1 million. Yea, Gonzaga gets half of the credits they earn AFTER the first round. A full credit is, what? 250k or so? That means that the MOST Gonzaga can get from a deep tourney run is about $500k in tourney credits.

So let’s not pretend that Gonzaga’s WCC money is HUGE and INSURMOUNTABLE for the MWC; they just don’t want to pay the amount needed to make it happen. I think they should, but I am guessing there is enough worry about being “stuck” with an odd fit when Few retires that is preventing them from doing that. 

[NorCalCoug]

25 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

I think I read that on here now that I think about it. I believe someone brought that up when I proposed we go after Wichita; they speculated that if they were getting a 70% they would probably at least have to pay 70% of the exit fee. 
 

So maybe it is a smaller percentage then 70, I dunno. But keep in mind, I was purposely being generous when I said the WCC’s tv deal is “less then a million”, because I’m guessing it’s closer to 100k per team then 1 million. Yea, Gonzaga gets half of the credits they earn AFTER the first round. A full credit is, what? 250k or so? That means that the MOST Gonzaga can get from a deep tourney run is about $500k in tourney credits.

So let’s not pretend that Gonzaga’s WCC money is HUGE and INSURMOUNTABLE for the MWC; they just don’t want to pay the amount needed to make it happen. I think they should, but I am guessing there is enough worry about being “stuck” with an odd fit when Few retires that is preventing them from doing that. 

All your numbers are way off.  

[SalinasSpartan]

10 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

All your numbers are way off.  

Last year tourney credits were with 337k. Meaning the most Gonzaga could get from the WCC “keep half of your tourney credits from after the first round” policy is 672k per year. I said 500k, that is not “way off”. 
 

What does the WCC tv deal payout? Because the only numbers I cited were 250k for tourney credits and that the WCC TV deal was probably closer to 100k then 1 million.

[NorCalCoug]

1 minute ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Last year tourney credits were with 337k. Meaning the most Gonzaga could get from the WCC “keep half of your tourney credits from after the first round” policy is 672k per year. I said 500k, that is not “way off”. 
 

What does the WCC tv deal payout? Because the only numbers I cited were 250k for tourney credits and that the WCC TV deal was probably closer to 100k then 1 million.

You need to research how NCAA tournament credits work and are paid out. It accumulates over time.  It’s not Gonzaga benefitting from a one time $250k credit. 

[SalinasSpartan]

4 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

You need to research how NCAA tournament credits work and are paid out. It accumulates over time.  It’s not Gonzaga benefitting from a one time $250k credit. 

Yes, they are divided by 6 and paid out in the 6 years after the tournament is held, so credits from the 22 tourney will be paid out in 6 parts from 23-28. I am using the annual amount because we are comparing annual payouts. This year Gonzaga could earn approximately $672k, which would be paid out over the next 6 years. Conversely, the MWC could simply pay them $672k in TV money, this year, to completely offset that.

[FresnoFacts]

The WCC's IRS Form 990 ending June 30, 2020 is at this link.

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/237286818/05_2021_prefixes_23-25%2F237286818_202006_990_2021052018152292

[jdgaucho]

9 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Yes, they are divided by 6 and paid out in the 6 years after the tournament is held, so credits from the 22 tourney will be paid out in 6 parts from 23-28. I am using the annual amount because we are comparing annual payouts. This year Gonzaga could earn approximately $672k, which would be paid out over the next 6 years. Conversely, the MWC could simply pay them $672k in TV money, this year, to completely offset that.

 

On top of the Boise bonus deal?  Yes, that will go over well with the other members.

[RSF]

13 minutes ago, FresnoFacts said:

The WCC's IRS Form 990 ending June 30, 2020 is at this link.

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/237286818/05_2021_prefixes_23-25%2F237286818_202006_990_2021052018152292

So, if I'm reading this right, BYU and Gonzaga get roughly half of the WCC distribution after expenses, with Gonzaga getting 895k in total last year.

[SalinasSpartan]

7 minutes ago, RSF said:

So, if I'm reading this right, BYU and Gonzaga get roughly half of the WCC distribution after expenses, with Gonzaga getting 895k in total last year.

So adding the tourney credits of the best possible scenario, Gonzaga making the final four literally every year, they make between 1.6 or 1.7 million between TV money and tourney credits. Which would be 42-43% of a full MWC payout.
 

That is of course ignoring that they would still get tourney credit money in the MWC (albeit less then they get now).

[RSF]

12 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

So adding the tourney credits of the best possible scenario, Gonzaga making the final four literally every year, they make between 1.6 or 1.7 million between TV money and tourney credits. Which would be 42-43% of a full MWC payout. 

Credits are distributed by the conference, not the NCAA.  A conference's revenue distribution includes all revenue, including tourney credits.  All the other schools in the conference got between 200-375k each.  BYU got a bit over 900k.

[SalinasSpartan]

5 minutes ago, RSF said:

Credits are distributed by the conference, not the NCAA.  A conference's revenue distribution includes all revenue, including tourney credits.  All the other schools in the conference got between 200-300k each.  BYU got a bit over 900k.

Got ya. Damn, that makes me a little more annoyed we didn’t try harder to get Gonzaga. A 30% payout of TV money (1.2 million) surpasses what they currently earn in TV money and tourney credits. 

[RSF]

3 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Got ya. Damn, that makes me a little more annoyed we didn’t try harder to get Gonzaga. A 30% payout of TV money (1.2 million) surpasses what they currently earn in TV money and tourney credits. 

If I had to make a guess, I'd say that those made-for-tv non conference games bring in a fair bit of money for the Zags, and probably dont go into the conference coffers.  I see 5 or 6 of them on this years schedule.

[nvspuds]

11 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Got ya. Damn, that makes me a little more annoyed we didn’t try harder to get Gonzaga. A 30% payout of TV money (1.2 million) surpasses what they currently earn in TV money and tourney credits. 

I believe Gonzaga backed out because they were just using the MW to get a better deal with the WCC..

[Gonzagafan2021]

This might be a dumb question to ask but how Come the big 12 didn't try to poach Navy and Army? Both teams are more nationally relevant than most of their potential candidates 

[since1670]

I believe the distribution from AAC to Wichita was 30 % of that of a full member.

70% was the number discussed for a football-only member.

 

BTW, Wichita is not doing as well as it did in its previous conference. It currently is 0-4 / 9-7 and stands at 10th in the AAC. Of course, its previous coach, Marshall, went bonkers and was fired. But that may of been caused by pressure. It does show you should not assume Gonzaga would play at the same level in the MWC. Uconn did well before entering the AAC, struggled in the AAC, and is doing well in the Big East. Apparently, fit matters.