wolf from 73 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 https://x.com/JWMediaDC/status/1839309464366887384 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoiseStateOfMind Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 12:26 PM, SteedLaw said: What in the world was Gloria thinking? What did she think she would gain by offering 25-30 mil to UNLV and Air Force, but pretty much nothing to the others. This makes our extra TV money look quaint. I'm sure the other remaining MWC schools are fine with it now, but there's no way this doesn't create resentment down the road, particularly if UNLV reverts to its historical norm in football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC_FAN Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 4:03 PM, wolf from 73 said: https://x.com/JWMediaDC/status/1839309464366887384 Both sides are absolutely weaker. Yes the P12 side is "less weak" but I think they are worse off than before (to various degrees) That said, if there's anyone who can bring both sides together, it would be a TV partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 https://x.com/JWMediaDC/status/1839380456241766720 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosegreen Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 10:27 AM, StanfordAggie said: The exit fees and poaching fees that the PAC is supposed to pay to the MWC are known as "liquidated damages" in the contracts world. (Basically, it means that you agree to pay a fixed amount if you breach a contract.) And they are notoriously difficult to enforce. Courts usually frown on liquidated damages. They prefer that the aggrieved party prove that they actually suffered X amount in damages as a result of the breach and then sue for X dollars. Case law says that for liquidated damages to be enforceable, they have to be a realistic estimate of the actual damages that the aggrieved party suffered as a result of the breach and not simply a punishment for breaching the contract. And given that the MWC is likely to survive as a viable conference, I think it's highly unlikely that they will be able to convince a court that they suffered $100M+ in damages due to the PAC defections. To be clear, there is a 100% chance that this will settle long before it gets to that point. Neither side wants to let this go to a judge, much less a jury, because the outcome is too unpredictable. But I don't think the MWC's hand is anywhere near as strong as you think it is. From my point of view, if they get 50% of the liquidated damages in these contracts, it will be a major victory. There is a reason that teams basically always pay only a fraction of the contracted exit fees when they switch conferences. Liquidated damages are simply too hard to enforce. (And that is why conferences have been moving to grants of rights in recent years. Unlike liquidated damages, a GOR is almost certainly enforceable, since it ties the penalty for leaving to actual damages that the conference suffered.) For the record, I am not a lawyer, but my wife is. This is my best understanding based on conversations with her and my legal research on liquidated damages. Take it for what it's worth. Depends on the language of the contract. My understanding is that it was drawn up to entice the PAC to merge and not raid the conference. In exchange the MW did a scheduling agreement despite the objections of some coaches. If the PAC wanted MWC schools they would have to compensate the MW to do so. It’s going to be hard for the PAC to prove that the MWC wrote up the contract to hurt the PAC, the exact opposite was happening. The other problem is PAC is/was obviously colluding to get the majority of the MW schools and dissolve the conference to get out of the compensation. Up to this point they haven’t netted any other school from a different conference. Again, it’s going to be hard to prove that the MWC was unfair and punitive to the PAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosegreen Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 2:19 PM, wolf from 73 said: I've heard other media consultants quoted as saying no more than $5-6 million per team. If that's the case this will be greatest blunder by any FBS team. They will all lose a boat load of cash to make less. https://x.com/JWMediaDC/status/1839380456241766720 That’s why they filed a Hail Mary lawsuit. They were turned down by six schools and their media partner probably said this is not good. Panic is setting in because this hype about being the best of the rest just blew up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agswin Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 Count me as one Utah State Fan who has grown weary of the constant whining and crying for special treatment by some conference members strictly on the basis of their Athletic Programs. This looks a lot like Soviet style Marxism, and I don't believe this is really what a conference is supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utgrizfan Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 3:26 PM, Rosegreen said: That’s why they filed a Hail Mary lawsuit. They were turned down by six schools and their media partner probably said this is not good. Panic is setting in because this hype about being the best of the rest just blew up. It probably blew up after the AAC 4 said no and then the ashes burst into flame when they only got USU and not UNLV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 Not sure how true this is, but damn UNLV came up huge if that bottom quote is true...... Thanks Boise and SUDS! LOL Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanfordAggie Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 5:21 PM, Rosegreen said: Depends on the language of the contract. My understanding is that it was drawn up to entice the PAC to merge and not raid the conference. In exchange the MW did a scheduling agreement despite the objections of some coaches. If the PAC wanted MWC schools they would have to compensate the MW to do so. It’s going to be hard for the PAC to prove that the MWC wrote up the contract to hurt the PAC, the exact opposite was happening. The other problem is PAC is/was obviously colluding to get the majority of the MW schools and dissolve the conference to get out of the compensation. Up to this point they haven’t netted any other school from a different conference. Again, it’s going to be hard to prove that the MWC was unfair and punitive to the PAC. No, it does not depend at all on the language of the contract. Google "liquidated damages" if you don't believe me. They are only enforceable if you can show that the actual damages that you suffer are at least reasonably close to the liquidated damages. You can't put liquidated damages in the contract that greatly exceed any reasonable estimate of the actual damages to force the other side to honor the contract. Honestly, if the liquidated damages are enforced, that's fantastic news for the PAC, because it indicates that the courts believe that the TV rights for the departing PAC members are very valuable. But I have serious doubts about that even as a fan of a PAC school. All non-P4 schools are basically filler content for TV networks, and I doubt that some filler content is significantly more valuable than others. That's why I think this whole thing is dumb and the two conferences should just do a full merger. But given that's unlikely to happen at this point, my expectation is that the PAC isn't going to owe the MWC much when this is all said and done simply because our TV rights are only slightly less worthless than yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 3:24 PM, BestintheWest said: Not sure how true this is, but damn UNLV came up huge if that bottom quote is true...... Thanks Boise and SUDS! LOL Confirmed by UNLV President.... Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobo-tomy Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 On 9/26/2024 at 11:50 AM, Brew_Poke said: How did Wyoming ever leave USU behind? Be nice, don't interrupt, they're ranting. 2 Quote Out of my mind for the Lobos!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofMTigers Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Memphis AD Ed Scott on why Memphis said 'no' to the Pac-12 offer... "that deal was not a good deal" https://x.com/munzly/status/1839404501754929521? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utgrizfan Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 On 9/26/2024 at 6:10 PM, UofMTigers said: Memphis AD Ed Scott on why Memphis said 'no' to the Pac-12 offer... "that deal was not a good deal" https://x.com/munzly/status/1839404501754929521? This screams "Fans/Boosters are pissed off and enough of problem that I have to say something, please give us a better deal" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 On 9/26/2024 at 3:28 PM, StanfordAggie said: No, it does not depend at all on the language of the contract. Google "liquidated damages" if you don't believe me. They are only enforceable if you can show that the actual damages that you suffer are at least reasonably close to the liquidated damages. You can't put liquidated damages in the contract that greatly exceed any reasonable estimate of the actual damages to force the other side to honor the contract. Honestly, if the liquidated damages are enforced, that's fantastic news for the PAC, because it indicates that the courts believe that the TV rights for the departing PAC members are very valuable. But I have serious doubts about that even as a fan of a PAC school. All non-P4 schools are basically filler content for TV networks, and I doubt that some filler content is significantly more valuable than others. That's why I think this whole thing is dumb and the two conferences should just do a full merger. But given that's unlikely to happen at this point, my expectation is that the PAC isn't going to owe the MWC much when this is all said and done simply because our TV rights are only slightly less worthless than yours. That's why we have courts experts will strongly disagree. https://x.com/mckenzielaw/status/1838976889857454386 https://x.com/mckenzielaw/status/1838697926731927978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofMTigers Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 On 9/26/2024 at 7:18 PM, utgrizfan said: This screams "Fans/Boosters are pissed off and enough of problem that I have to say something, please give us a better deal" he spoke on that as well. I'm glad we hired him as (Dr.) Ed's smart, articulate, and not from the Memphis area (east coast, we got him from UVA) so he makes business decisions not emotional decisions. I think we're lucky to have him. https://x.com/munzly/status/1839403822562922929 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matador in NM Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 On 9/26/2024 at 12:23 PM, SanDiegoPoke said: The only was you could construe that is when the Skyline (and Border) Conference collapsed and the Western Athletic Conference was formed in 1962-63. Wyoming and Utah State were co-champions that last 2 years of the Skyline. My understanding is that Utah and BYU didn't want USU included, but I have no direct knowledge as I was born in 1963 :-P You're right, SanDiegoPoke: neither Utah nor BYU wanted Utah State in the soon-to-be formed Western Athletic Conference. Initially, officials at Arizona, Arizona State, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah, BYU, and New Mexico discussed the possibility of organizing a new conference in the West, and, as Mountain West fans are fully aware, their conversations began during the 1958 NCAA annual meeting in New York City in the basement of a restaurant. Not quite an airport meeting, but the talks in 1958 and 1998 have some similarity. Conversations continued in the subsequent months. The three schools in the Northwest had found themselves without a conference home after the collapse of the Pacific Coast Conference and the organizing of the Athletic Association of Western Universities by five of their former PCC mates. When Oregon, Oregon State, and Washington State considered their options, they all decided to wait in the hope of reuniting with their former rivals, which happened by the mid-1960s. While the discussion of the new conference, which was to be called the Great Western Conference, continued into 1959 and 1960, schools such as New Mexico State, Texas Western, San Jose State, Colorado State, and Utah State openly expressed their interest in joining, but their efforts, as we know, were thwarted. At no point was Wyoming in consideration, until either the president of Utah or BYU suggested Wyoming because its president (Wilkinson, I want to say) was a Mormon; the Cowboys thus earned a spot in the Western Athletic Conference in at least some measure due to that factor. The events at that time differ only be degree to the drama currently unfolding. For some years, I've researched the archives at various universities for their athletic department records, including the member schools of the Border Conference. Copies of letters between university presidents, athletic directors, and coaches often tell stories that never appeared in the newspapers, which I find awfully interesting. At any rate, I cannot claim personal direct knowledge either, as I was born seven years after you! I'm just a historian who enjoys sports history. Thanks for indulging me. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebels2k3 Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoichiKUN808 Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Guess NIU/Toledo are tired of the status quo in the MAC… that’s a big surprise though. Mountain West from the Pacific Islands all the way to Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utgrizfan Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 If the MWC wanted CTZ teams they should go for NDSU and SDSU, they would be just as competitive at the FBS level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
