Conference Realignment thread

[415hawaiiboy]

I’ve been around long enough to witness recruiting battles that Hawaii lost to the Beavs and Cougs mainly because of that little patch and fraternity of much bigger schools.  
 

Deep down in the psyche of their fans, coaches and administrators is the feeling of superiority over MW schools.  
 

Being kicked to the curb of the power leagues, creates change but old thinking will continue until another splash of cold water.  
 

This is why we are here.  

[Chalsean]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:48 PM, 415hawaiiboy said:

I’ve been around long enough to witness recruiting battles that Hawaii lost to the Beavs and Cougs mainly because of that little patch and fraternity of much bigger schools.  
 

Deep down in the psyche of their fans, coaches and administrators is the feeling of superiority over MW schools.  
 

Being kicked to the curb of the power leagues, creates change but old thinking will continue until another splash of cold water.  
 

This is why we are here.  

At least a generation..  hell University of Idaho still sees BSU as its top rival.

[Full]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:48 PM, 415hawaiiboy said:

I’ve been around long enough to witness recruiting battles that Hawaii lost to the Beavs and Cougs mainly because of that little patch and fraternity of much bigger schools.  
 

Deep down in the psyche of their fans, coaches and administrators is the feeling of superiority over MW schools.  
 

Being kicked to the curb of the power leagues, creates change but old thinking will continue until another splash of cold water.  
 

This is why we are here.  

I know online fans don’t represent the fan base, but some of their online fans make me want to watch what happens when they can’t schedule games against the P4 and have burnt their bridge with the Mountain West. It might get really humbling when they have 3-4 FCS games for the 2025 season and have their basketball credits returned because the NCAA disbands their conference and doesn’t grant them a waiver for an extra year. The PAC-2 want to gut the MW, but the penalties and exit fees are too much compared to any increase in the TV deal. With another year, they get past the fees they agreed to with the scheduling agreement.   
 

If I’m the Mountain West, I would be petitioning the NCAA to not grant a waiver to the PAC-2. They had the opportunity to join the MW and declined. If they get a waiver, they will try and poach the top teams. The additional $10 million + per team penalty goes away if they add after August 1, 2025 for the 2027 season. 
 

[EvilPoke]

On 8/28/2024 at 6:50 PM, Full said:

I know online fans don’t represent the fan base, but some of their online fans make me want to watch what happens when they can’t schedule games against the P4 and have burnt their bridge with the Mountain West. It might get really humbling when they have 3-4 FCS games for the 2025 season and have their basketball credits returned because the NCAA disbands their conference and doesn’t grant them a waiver for an extra year. The PAC-2 want to gut the MW, but the penalties and exit fees are too much compared to any increase in the TV deal. With another year, they get past the fees they agreed to with the scheduling agreement.   
 

If I’m the Mountain West, I would be petitioning the NCAA to not grant a waiver to the PAC-2. They had the opportunity to join the MW and declined. If they get a waiver, they will try and poach the top teams. The additional $10 million + per team penalty goes away if they add after August 1, 2025 for the 2027 season. 
 

No - I just watched the Big Mountain Podcast - the extra fee ends sometime in 2027. 

[Full]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:06 PM, EvilPoke said:

No - I just watched the Big Mountain Podcast - the extra fee ends sometime in 2027. 

https://www.scribd.com/document/698003223/Pac-12-Mountain-West-scheduling-agreement

In the linked contract on page 6 it reads: “ For purposes of this Agreement, the ‘Outside Date’ shall be August 1, 2025. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if MWC and Pac-12 mutually agree in a signed writing on or prior to September 1, 2024, the ‘Outside Date’ may be extended to August 1, 2026.”

The fees currently end on August 1st 2025, which means if the PAC wanted to avoid the $10 million+ fees, teams leaving the MW could only give 10 months notice, so the exit fees would be doubled (an extra $17 million ish per team). If the PAC got a one year extension, they could poach teams without the fee and keep their NCAA tournament credits. The credits go away if the PAC doesn’t get a waiver or 5 more teams before the 2026 football season. 

[EvilPoke]

On 8/28/2024 at 8:10 PM, Full said:

https://www.scribd.com/document/698003223/Pac-12-Mountain-West-scheduling-agreement

In the linked contract on page 6 it reads: “ For purposes of this Agreement, the ‘Outside Date’ shall be August 1, 2025. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if MWC and Pac-12 mutually agree in a signed writing on or prior to September 1, 2024, the ‘Outside Date’ may be extended to August 1, 2026.”

The fees currently end on August 1st 2025, which means if the PAC wanted to avoid the $10 million+ fees, teams leaving the MW could only give 10 months notice, so the exit fees would be doubled (an extra $17 million ish per team). If the PAC got a one year extension, they could poach teams without the fee and keep their NCAA tournament credits. The credits go away if the PAC doesn’t get a waiver or 5 more teams before the 2026 football season. 

 

4:10 mark he gets into it

Ending the poaching period on Aug 1, 2025 doesn't make any sense. Why agree to end the $10M a YEAR before the Pac-2 needs to re-load. You're asking to get poached.

[Full]

On 8/28/2024 at 8:31 PM, EvilPoke said:

 

4:10 mark he gets into it

Ending the poaching period on Aug 1, 2025 doesn't make any sense. Why agree to end the $10M a YEAR before the Pac-2 needs to re-load. You're asking to get poached.

He’s off by a year, I posted the actual contract. As it currently stands the PAC is no longer considered a conference in the 2026-27 year without a NCAA waiver. That means NCAA tournament credit return to the teams that earned them and their war chest shrinks dramatically. MW teams must give notice before July 1st 2025 to leave for the 2026-27 year or pay 2x the exit fees. As long as nothing changes the Aug 2025 deadline is perfect. The exit fees would go from $17 million per team to $34 million per team before the $10 million+ penalty expired. If the NCAA grants a waiver (a possibility), it buys the PAC more time and allows the $10 million+ fees to expire and teams can leave for the standard $17 million in exit fees for the 2027-28 season. This is why a NCAA waiver has been brought up by fans as a possible solution. You could get support from teams that would gain with NCAA Tournament credits being returned to the teams that earned them  

Oregon State and Washington State could be desperate enough to try to make a run at a best of the rest conference. We know there are a couple of teams that would love to leave the MW and join them given the right incentive $$$$$. Comments from both the AD and President of Oregon State make me think they are willing to try anything to not be relegated to the Mountain West. The $28 million a year reduction to conference distributions is almost a third of their athletic budget. The MW should be doing everything it can to stop the PAC-2 basement dwellers (the very last and third from last in the P5 in Athletic revenue) from being a catalyst for the top teams to try another version of CUSA or the WAC 16.

[wolf from 73]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:14 PM, Full said:

He’s off by a year, I posted the actual contract. As it currently stands the PAC is no longer considered a conference in the 2026-27 year without a NCAA waiver. That means NCAA tournament credit return to the teams that earned them and their war chest shrinks dramatically. MW teams must give notice before July 1st 2025 to leave for the 2026-27 year or pay 2x the exit fees. As long as nothing changes the Aug 2025 deadline is perfect. The exit fees would go from $17 million per team to $34 million per team before the $10 million+ penalty expired. If the NCAA grants a waiver (a possibility), it buys the PAC more time and allows the $10 million+ fees to expire and teams can leave for the standard $17 million in exit fees for the 2027-28 season. This is why a NCAA waiver has been brought up by fans as a possible solution. You could get support from teams that would gain with NCAA Tournament credits being returned to the teams that earned them  

Oregon State and Washington State could be desperate enough to try to make a run at a best of the rest conference. We know there are a couple of teams that would love to leave the MW and join them given the right incentive $$$$$. Comments from both the AD and President of Oregon State make me think they are willing to try anything to not be relegated to the Mountain West. The $28 million a year reduction to conference distributions is almost a third of their athletic budget. The MW should be doing everything it can to stop the PAC-2 basement dwellers (the very last and third from last in the P5 in Athletic revenue) from being a catalyst for the top teams to try another version of CUSA or the WAC 16.

Those poaching fees currently extend to Aug. 2, 2027. If the scheduling alliance is mutually extended for another year, those poaching fees would be in place through Aug. 2, 2028.                                                                                                                                       https://nevadasportsnet.com/sports/wolf-pack-football/nsns-weekly-poll-should-mountain-west-extend-football-scheduling-alliance-with-pac-2#

[415hawaiiboy]

All I hope is the administrations of the PAC2 schools are thinking differently than their fan message boards.  
 

 

[EvilPoke]

On 8/29/2024 at 3:20 PM, 415hawaiiboy said:

All I hope is the administrations of the PAC2 schools are thinking differently than their fan message boards.  
 

 

They are doing whatever they can to stay in the Power 4. It's no different than one of us fighting to stay out of the Big Sky.

[Chalsean]

They may just go independent in football and call it a day. I know they don't get cfb playoff dancing but that doesn't change the payout. Anybody know the payouts from CFB playoffs to indi?

Ultimately I kinda hope they do go indi for awhile. Really don't care if they come or go, just leave mwc alone.

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:11 AM, Chalsean said:

They may just go independent in football and call it a day. I know they don't get cfb playoff dancing but that doesn't change the payout. Anybody know the payouts from CFB playoffs to indi?

Ultimately I kinda hope they do go indi for awhile. Really don't care if they come or go, just leave mwc alone.

Going all the way back to the Pac collapse I’ve thought they might ultimately settle on “the BYU option” as their best strategy for maintaining a separation from the G5.  I would expect the WCC to let them leave their non-football sports there as long as they like.  OSU and WSU raise the WCC’s competitive profile and are good travel partners for the University of Portland and Gonzaga respectively.

Still I think that’s a less likely outcome than reaching some accommodation with the MWC, just because of how hard football scheduling as an independent has become (especially now that Army and UMass have opted to join conferences).  Notre Dame can still pull it off, but the Irish have a scheduling agreement with the ACC that makes it easier.  To succeed as independents OSU and WSU probably would have to reach a similar scheduling agreement with the Big 12 or ACC, but I don’t see much reason for either of those conferences to help them out.

[Someone Else]

2 hours ago, HawaiiMongoose said:

Going all the way back to the Pac collapse I’ve thought they might ultimately settle on “the BYU option” as their best strategy for maintaining a separation from the G5.  I would expect the WCC to let them leave their non-football sports there as long as they like.  OSU and WSU raise the WCC’s competitive profile and are good travel partners for the University of Portland and Gonzaga respectively.

Still I think that’s a less likely outcome than reaching some accommodation with the MWC, just because of how hard football scheduling as an independent has become (especially now that Army and UMass have opted to join conferences).  Notre Dame can still pull it off, but the Irish have a scheduling agreement with the ACC that makes it easier.  To succeed as independents OSU and WSU probably would have to reach a similar scheduling agreement with the Big 12 or ACC, but I don’t see much reason for either of those conferences to help them out.

I suppose if you can earn enough revenue from football to be independent it's the way to go.  If you are not in one of the big boy conferences where is the upside in being in a conference.

Honestly, the MWC teams earn what 5-6 mil from their TV contract yet they are forced to stay hooked together because of a 17 mil or 34 mil exit fee?  If we were going to be honest we would agree that's kind of extortion. 

A school wants to leave a conference that essentially pays peanuts but they have to 'compensate' the other schools in the conference if they find a way to do better for themselves???  If that's not extortion of some sort I don't know what is.

[dudleyDgroot]

On 8/30/2024 at 12:43 PM, Someone Else said:

I suppose if you can earn enough revenue from football to be independent it's the way to go.  If you are not in one of the big boy conferences where is the upside in being in a conference.

Honestly, the MWC teams earn what 5-6 mil from their TV contract yet they are forced to stay hooked together because of a 17 mil or 34 mil exit fee?  If we were going to be honest we would agree that's kind of extortion. 

A school wants to leave a conference that essentially pays peanuts but they have to 'compensate' the other schools in the conference if they find a way to do better for themselves???  If that's not extortion of some sort I don't know what is.

It's called a CONTRACT.......

[Chalsean]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:43 PM, Someone Else said:

I suppose if you can earn enough revenue from football to be independent it's the way to go.  If you are not in one of the big boy conferences where is the upside in being in a conference.

Honestly, the MWC teams earn what 5-6 mil from their TV contract yet they are forced to stay hooked together because of a 17 mil or 34 mil exit fee?  If we were going to be honest we would agree that's kind of extortion. 

A school wants to leave a conference that essentially pays peanuts but they have to 'compensate' the other schools in the conference if they find a way to do better for themselves???  If that's not extortion of some sort I don't know what is.

I'd say you don't know what extortion is then.

[nvspuds]

On 8/30/2024 at 12:43 PM, Someone Else said:

I suppose if you can earn enough revenue from football to be independent it's the way to go.  If you are not in one of the big boy conferences where is the upside in being in a conference.

Honestly, the MWC teams earn what 5-6 mil from their TV contract yet they are forced to stay hooked together because of a 17 mil or 34 mil exit fee?  If we were going to be honest we would agree that's kind of extortion. 

A school wants to leave a conference that essentially pays peanuts but they have to 'compensate' the other schools in the conference if they find a way to do better for themselves???  If that's not extortion of some sort I don't know what is.

At least 9 MW schools voted for those exit fees.  It may have been more than 9.  However, there is no by law that says schools can't leave the MW if they want to.  Nobody is making anybody do anything.    

[Full]

On 8/29/2024 at 7:19 PM, EvilPoke said:

They are doing whatever they can to stay in the Power 4. It's no different than one of us fighting to stay out of the Big Sky.

They were Power 5, and have never been Power 4. Just like USF was a BCS school. The difference between FBS teams fighting to stay out of the Big Sky and the PAC-2 trying to maintain Power 4 status is they are already G5 schools. They are just hoping to a the miracle of the ACC collapsing and inviting them.  They’re living in a fantasy world as a star athlete from a small hard to get to town. The reality is high school is over and they’re not even the best QB recruit in the class. 

[Beaver-Poke]

On 8/30/2024 at 2:16 PM, Full said:

They were Power 5, and have never been Power 4. Just like USF was a BCS school. The difference between FBS teams fighting to stay out of the Big Sky and the PAC-2 trying to maintain Power 4 status is they are already G5 schools. They are just hoping to a the miracle of the ACC collapsing and inviting them.  They’re living in a fantasy world as a star athlete from a small hard to get to town. The reality is high school is over and they’re not even the best QB recruit in the class. 

Drive up (or down) I-5, the major highway on the West Coast. Leave I-5 at exit 228, head west on Highway 34 for 10 miles, cross the river and you're in downtown. 

Not difficult to get to at all. 

PS: Corvallis (pop. 60,956) is larger than Logan (54,680), and easier to get to. 

[wolf from 73]

On 8/30/2024 at 3:39 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

Drive up (or down) I-5, the major highway on the West Coast. Leave I-5 at exit 228, head west on Highway 34 for 10 miles, cross the river and you're in downtown. 

Not difficult to get to at all. 

PS: Corvallis (pop. 60,956) is larger than Logan (54,680), and easier to get to. 

It's really not how far from I-5 but how far from the nearest airport that would serve visitors and teams from the MWC.

[Wyobraska]

On 8/30/2024 at 5:51 PM, wolf from 73 said:

It's really not how far from I-5 but how far from the nearest airport that would serve visitors and teams from the MWC.

It's around 85 miles from Portland which is about the same distance for Logan from SLC.  

Pullman takes a lot more work.