bigd Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 12:23 PM, Loyal Coug said: Thank Gawd someone agrees with me. And we can't forget the $30M in NCAA BB distributions that the Pac-2 would lose if we join another conference. It must be the PacWest 12/14. Does anyone know how a reverse merger would work legally? Would the new league get both sets of credits, or just the Pac-12 credits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alum93 Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 1:48 PM, bigd said: Does anyone know how a reverse merger would work legally? Would the new league get both sets of credits, or just the Pac-12 credits? Your credits don't follow you when you change leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalCoug Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 1:48 PM, bigd said: Does anyone know how a reverse merger would work legally? Would the new league get both sets of credits, or just the Pac-12 credits? My understanding is that if the conference entity dissolves the credits are dispersed to the schools that earned them…. But admittedly could be wrong. I recall reading that somewhere throughout this realignment mayhem. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigd Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/23/2024 at 10:09 PM, Did I hear a WOOSH? said: I’m no spokesperson, but I do speak common sense pretty well. The PACNW and its regional media outlets does not qualify as ‘plenty’ unfortunately, at least as it relates to the topic at hand. What you’re suggesting just doesn’t make practical sense, which is why you chose to ignore the supporting statements and just take issue with me saying the pacnw is a college sports desert. The pacnw is not a college sports desert. Oregon and Washington combined have about half of Florida's population. Yet those two states have produced three CFB playoff appearances, and two national title appearances in the CFP era. The entire state of Florida only has one appearance in the playoff in the same time frame when Florida State lost 20-59 to Oregon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigd Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 12:57 PM, alum93 said: Your credits don't follow you when you change leagues. I understand, but a reverse merger is a different situation than changing leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver-Poke Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 Were the MWC dissolve and be incorporated into the Pac-14, the MWC's MBB credits would be paid to the school that earned them, not the league as a whole., for the life of the six-year payout period of the earned credit. So SDSU would do well, several other schools less so, and some would not benefit at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspoke Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 12:47 PM, 818SUDSFan said: I could be wrong but my understanding is the total COULD be $16.5 each X 6 = $99M + $67.5 = a total of $166.5M to the MWC. Of course, if FSU somehow prevails against the ACC that would have potential impact and in any event, given the history of this stuff, the exiting schools would never pay the full amount the MWC would argue is owed. Rather, the amount paid would be more like 2/3 of the asserted amount. But I agree with Headbutt that the first consideration is how much the CW will be paying OSU/WSU to broadcast their games. If it's just a pittance, that might end things right there. FOr it to be 16.5 million they would have to leave before July 1st so a little over a month away. They better get on it. But even 166.5 million is a lot of money, more money than you would make up by taking 6 MW teams and a collection of other teams when you can just take all the MW and save 166.5 or 271.5. I don't think the FSU case would have much bearing here since the MW's isn't a Grant of Rights situation. IT is an exit fee which is different which is why they also just can't wait for the media deal to expire. The exit fee is based on the previous years media deal( I beleive). It could go to court and be diminished but I wouldn't want to count on it and I don't think the FSU case has anything to do with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSF Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 3:08 PM, Beaver-Poke said: Were the MWC dissolve and be incorporated into the Pac-14, the MWC's MBB credits would be paid to the school that earned them, not the league as a whole., for the life of the six-year payout period of the earned credit. No. Credits belong to the conference. NCAA pays them to the conference. Its part of the conference's collective revenue. If the conference goes, so do the credits. Quote It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLV2001 Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 11:14 AM, Beaver-Poke said: Not sure why the animus toward OSU and WSU. OSU, at least, has happily scheduled football games with far more MWC teams than any other conference member, I believe, in the past 30 years. I think we've played every single MWC team except Air Force in the last 20 years, on a home-and-home basis. I know I've been to OSU games at Utah State, UNLV, Wyoming, Fresno, Boise State, Hawaii and Nevada. I know we've also played SDSU, CSU, New Mexico and San Jose State on a H&H basis, with CSU scheduled to come here this year after the 2020 game was canceled. We've regularly scheduled MWC opponents in baseball and both basketballs, again probably more so than any other Pac-12 program. Hell, our AD is a Fresno State grad and former basketball player there. I would welcome a full-on merger, under the Pac-12 banner simply because the Pac-12 name has more cache than the MWC and the financial rewards would be better. It's ridiculous for OSU to think we can still afford to the millions and millions and millions it will take to play top-level (top 60) when everything finally shakes out. And as long as NCAA-tournament access remains in every other sport, I'm more than OK with that. A 13-or 14-team Pac (depending on Hawaii's status) would be an outstanding regional, competitive league of like-minded and like-sized universities. Personally, I wish OSU & WSU were coming into the MWC as full all-sport members -- That would only strengthen the MWC overall I can see why OWSU might be dallying because they are feeling their way around this new environment & all the financial & legal aspects that go along with the PAC implosion .........and let's be honest, OWSU have to be shell shocked over what has transpired & basically left the two reeling ...........,, so I can understand why both would keep any eye to any hope of some sort of rescue, however slim the odds might be. With the above a known reality, there's also the very real prospect that OWSU won't get a lifeline and there's a good chance that in the coming years that there could be other current P4 schools joining them in purgatory ........ I see the Big Ten & SEC as moving a step up & that leaves the B12/ACC & current B10/SEC schools in a precarious position that they might also be cut loose.............and then there's another scramble to assemble whatever castoffs, OWSU, MWC into some sort of arrangement As for the name MWC or PAC-XX - Neither is going to move the needle once the separation is done, so I wouldn't sweat over what the name is, it won't matter & few across the country will care except the schools involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Coug Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 12:58 PM, NorCalCoug said: My understanding is that if the conference entity dissolves the credits are dispersed to the schools that earned them…. But admittedly could be wrong. I recall reading that somewhere throughout this realignment mayhem. Lots to comment on here. What you say NorCal is what I understand as well. There are articles in the Seattle Times and Mercury News that I believe speak to this, as I read the same as you a while back. Unfortunately, I don't have read access to either paper's site. Maybe someone else does. It's a pretty important puzzle piece, and there should be a clear answer somewhere. What I recall is that if The Pac-2 went defunct, the credits would revert to the league members that were there when they were earned (collectively, not specific schools). That remains my assumption as I can't find anything out on the web on this scenario. On a partial MW poach by the Pac-2 - we would be stupid (newsflash, we are) to pay out all of our money in buyouts to get 6 or whatever MW schools to join. We are better off to take everyone. Finally, holding out to hope for a Big-12 or ACC invite is just stupid. Yeah let's just fly over the entire MW Conference on our way to Morgantown or Wake Forest or wherever the F we would have to play. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver-Poke Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 1:19 PM, RSF said: No. Credits belong to the conference. NCAA pays them to the conference. Its part of the conference's collective revenue. If the conference goes, so do the credits. Yes, the NCAA pays the conference. But when the conference disappears, which would happen to the MWC with a reverse merger, the credits would then be paid to the individual schools going forward, until the 6-year period for the earned credit is completed. They don't simply go away. As for the name MWC or PAC-XX - Neither is going to move the needle once the separation is done, so I wouldn't sweat over what the name is, it won't matter & few across the country will care except the schools involved There are huge financial implications if the Pac-12 as a legal corporation is dissolved. Monies owed the conference by various entities - estimated at about $255 million - would disappear. Not so with the MWC, which has tens of millions less in guaranteed future revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionTrails Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 2:14 PM, UNLV2001 said: Personally, I wish OSU & WSU were coming into the MWC as full all-sport members -- That would only strengthen the MWC overall I can see why OWSU might be dallying because they are feeling their way around this new environment & all the financial & legal aspects that go along with the PAC implosion .........and let's be honest, OWSU have to be shell shocked over what has transpired & basically left the two reeling ...........,, so I can understand why both would keep any eye to any hope of some sort of rescue, however slim the odds might be. With the above a known reality, there's also the very real prospect that OWSU won't get a lifeline and there's a good chance that in the coming years that there could be other current P4 schools joining them in purgatory ........ I see the Big Ten & SEC as moving a step up & that leaves the B12/ACC & current B10/SEC schools in a precarious position that they might also be cut loose.............and then there's another scramble to assemble whatever castoffs, OWSU, MWC into some sort of arrangement As for the name MWC or PAC-XX - Neither is going to move the needle once the separation is done, so I wouldn't sweat over what the name is, it won't matter & few across the country will care except the schools involved The Pac-XX has been around far longer, has way, way, way, more national championships in its past (no matter that they are mostly by several of the 10 schools that have left), and is far more nationally known. Yes, it'll be watered down as far as national perception, but the new conference would be best served by retaining the PAC name over the MWC. (assuming a merge actually happens) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headbutt Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 12:25 PM, 818SUDSFan said: I don't understand it from Headbutt. However, anecdotal evidence suggests it has otherwise come mainly from fans of MWC schools unlikely to be among the half a dozen that you guys would offer Pac membership to. (And for the dissenters, IIRC, the estimated collective amount to the MWC for six would be $67.5M. Granted, I'm not objective because my school would definitely be one of the six and it ain't my money but I continue to think it's doable.) I have absolutely nothing against OSU or WSU. I really hope to be in a conference with them. I do get a little perturbed when it is suggested that they are our superiors just because they are Pac 12 cast offs. With equal budgets, I see no difference between those two and the top half of the MWC. I'm also pissed that they signed off on the settlement terms. Yes, the G5, FCS, etc. will pay an unfair proportion, but the P5 conferences do have the bigger payouts. TBD is whether MWC schools that join the Pac will be subject to those payout levels. If it was just OSU/WSU signing off, it was incredibly stupid. If the other ten schools still had a say in it, then OSU/WSU just took another one in the tailpipe from their former brethren. Still, OSU and WSU are definitely in the top 3 or 4 FBS schools I'd like to roll into the MWC (or whatever) and they are the only two that there is even an extremely remote chance of. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLV2001 Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 3:03 PM, MissionTrails said: The Pac-XX has been around far longer, has way, way, way, more national championships in its past (no matter that they are mostly by several of the 10 schools that have left), and is far more nationally known. Yes, it'll be watered down as far as national perception, but the new conference would be best served by retaining the PAC name over the MWC. (assuming a merge actually happens) Adding a bunch of MWC schools under the PAC name will do nothing -- The PAC ship has sailed & everything you just noted is in the history books -- It really doesn't matter what name some MWC/PAC merger might be.........it's like taking a Rolls Royce hood ornament & sticking it on a Chevrolet , if anyone's thinking using the PAC name will bring any national respect 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headbutt Posted May 24, 2024 Share Posted May 24, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 5:20 PM, UNLV2001 said: Adding a bunch of MWC schools under the PAC name will do nothing -- The PAC ship has sailed & everything you just noted is in the history books -- It really doesn't matter what name some MWC/PAC merger might be.........it's like taking a Rolls Royce hood ornament & sticking it on a Chevrolet , if anyone's thinking using the PAC name will bring any national respect OSU and WSU have to keep the name. It's of marginal value to G5 teams that join them, but it is a big part of their budget for the next 5-10 years. They lose a lot of their inheritance if they shut down the "Pac 12". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalsean Posted May 25, 2024 Share Posted May 25, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 5:40 PM, Headbutt said: OSU and WSU have to keep the name. It's of marginal value to G5 teams that join them, but it is a big part of their budget for the next 5-10 years. They lose a lot of their inheritance if they shut down the "Pac 12". the legal entity yes but they once renamed from PAC-10 to PAC-12. so in theory, they should be able to rebrand if they want while remaining the same legal entity. id reverse merge and rebrand. from a legal perspective its the PAC but from a branding perspective can be called whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headbutt Posted May 25, 2024 Share Posted May 25, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 6:13 PM, Chalsean said: the legal entity yes but they once renamed from PAC-10 to PAC-12. so in theory, they should be able to rebrand if they want while remaining the same legal entity. id reverse merge and rebrand. from a legal perspective its the PAC but from a branding perspective can be called whatever Sounds right. But they do lose their ass if they straight up just join the MWC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billings Posted May 25, 2024 Share Posted May 25, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 1:19 PM, RSF said: No. Credits belong to the conference. NCAA pays them to the conference. Its part of the conference's collective revenue. If the conference goes, so do the credits. Conference realignment: a. If an institution leaves a conference to join another conference or becomes independent, while the former conference remains in operation, the units previously earned by the institution remain with the former conference. b. If an independent institution joins a conference, it retains the units it earned as an independent prior to the date it elected to join the conference; any units the institution earns after that date accrue to the conference. c. If a conference notifies the NCAA that it has ceased operations each institution retains the units it earned in the Basketball Performance Fund. PDF below for source. Page 8 https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/finance/d1/2023D1Fin_RevenueDistributionPlan.pdf. \ 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKS007 Posted May 25, 2024 Share Posted May 25, 2024 On 5/23/2024 at 1:22 PM, alum93 said: So many topics on this thread. Not being sarcastic, for those that follow NDSU, what FBS invites did they turn down and when? Just curious. One of the escapees from the NDSU insane asylum keeps posting on the MWC message board that his tiny school in rural Dakota should be a part of the conference. When I mentioned that the Mountain West would take FBS schools first and that they should have joined CUSA when they were desperate, he responded that they had already turned down invites from CUSA and others. I just shook my head and said, "Well there's your problem." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Coug Posted May 25, 2024 Share Posted May 25, 2024 On 5/24/2024 at 6:07 PM, Billings said: Conference realignment: a. If an institution leaves a conference to join another conference or becomes independent, while the former conference remains in operation, the units previously earned by the institution remain with the former conference. b. If an independent institution joins a conference, it retains the units it earned as an independent prior to the date it elected to join the conference; any units the institution earns after that date accrue to the conference. c. If a conference notifies the NCAA that it has ceased operations each institution retains the units it earned in the Basketball Performance Fund. PDF below for source. Page 8 https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/finance/d1/2023D1Fin_RevenueDistributionPlan.pdf. \ Good find buddy! Although it is still a bit murky. Is "units earned by an institution" based on specific teams who played, or is it units earned by the conference as a whole? Sounds like the former, but I dunno. Let's say it is the former. The MW if disbanded, COULD agree to make everyone whole as if the conference had continued (share). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...