Conference Realignment thread

[Headbutt]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:21 AM, HawaiiMongoose said:

If the conference was being really ambitious the targets would be UTEP, UTSA, North Texas, Rice, Memphis, and Tulane.

That would create a strong 20-member G5 superconference with two conference-sized divisions.

East: Wyoming, CSU, Air Force, New Mexico, UTEP, UTSA, North Texas, Rice, Memphis, Tulane

West: WSU, OSU, Boise State, Utah State, Nevada, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno State, SDSU, Hawaii

There would be no crossover competition in football.  The two division champions would play for the conference title in what would effectively be a play-in game to the CFP most seasons.

In non-football sports there would be very limited crossover competition, which would minimize travel costs.

But to your point, it would depend on the new TV deal.  Some network would need to buy into the concept and be willing to pay out at least $8 million per school per year.  That’s probably a reach given all the unknowns in the current environment.

Not liking that split or even necessarily those additions.  I'd much prefer to keep USU in a division with CSU and Wyoming.  I realize it's small time thinking, but I'd also prefer the Montana schools over Memphis and Tulane.  Good additions, but Texas is about as far east as I want to go.  I feel like we need to maintain some regionality.

[AztecSU]

On 3/27/2024 at 1:19 PM, Headbutt said:

Not liking that split or even necessarily those additions.  I'd much prefer to keep USU in a division with CSU and Wyoming.  I realize it's small time thinking, but I'd also prefer the Montana schools over Memphis and Tulane.  Good additions, but Texas is about as far east as I want to go.  I feel like we need to maintain some regionality.

It's easy. MW+PAC2+TXST+UTEP

I know the reaction the last two will get but I think in the long term they are the right additions to get to 16. UTEP is a natural UNM rival, rivalries are important IMO. TXST is likely to make the leap(Other Tx schools likely wouldn't), and they have a name that fits in with STATE heavy MW, and they have good FB/BB facilities. 

 

[SteedLaw]

On 3/27/2024 at 3:17 PM, AztecSU said:

It's easy. MW+PAC2+TXST+UTEP

I know the reaction the last two will get but I think in the long term they are the right additions to get to 16. UTEP is a natural UNM rival, rivalries are important IMO. TXST is likely to make the leap(Other Tx schools likely wouldn't), and they have a name that fits in with STATE heavy MW, and they have good FB/BB facilities. 

 

I have been saying for a while now that if we are heading into Texas (and I think we should), then Texas State arguably makes more sense that either UTSA, RICE, or UNT. 
 

UTEP is less sexy, but has both rivalry and connectivity. 
 

Either way, I think both schools would likely consider a protracted buy-in of sorts over a period of, say, four years. And, long term, I think there is synergy there. 
 

I am also with headbutt in that I am not as opposed to the Montana schools as some people are. 
 

Over time, I have come to the realization that anything east of the state of Texas is just too far. We need to keep our regionality for all practical and branding purposes. 

[MissionTrails]

Isn't UTEP much more of a rival with NM State than UNM?

[RSF]

Texas State.

 

 

Never stops being hilarious...

[Gonzagafan2021]

What makes Texas State so attractive for the MWC? Is it because they have the word. "State" in its name? 

[SteedLaw]

On 3/27/2024 at 5:16 PM, Gonzagafan2021 said:

What makes Texas State so attractive for the MWC? Is it because they have the word. "State" in its name? 

No.
 

They are located in San Marcos, a space between San Antonio and Austin. They have a second campus in Round Rock. I think if played right, they could build a brand that could pull from all of the above and they appear to be doing just that.

They are in the Sun Belt and have no exit fees. UTSA and UNT have exit fees in their contracts with the AAC. 

They are a young and upcoming brand in one of the fastest-growing areas of one of the largest and fastest-growing states. They have a large student population. They have a large and very respected alumni group — only school in Texas with a former US President as alumnus. Unlike UTSA and UNT, they are not a commuter school; most students live away from home.

According to their charter, they represent the entirety of the state of Texas, almost as a second land-grant (like a mini A&M or, rather, a potential future A&M). They have multiple campuses and research farms. Their research, particularly in forensics and criminal justice, is pretty top notch. Like a lot of other MWC schools, they are the biggest name in town in San Marcos. They are the biggest game in their home metro (San Marcos) and don’t share that metro with other schools and brands. 

They have nice sports facilities, nicer than UNT and UTSA as a whole, excepting UTSA’s use of the Alamodome — which UTsA does not own. They actually own their stadium and their arena. They have an upcoming football program, even beating Baylor this last season. 

In all seriousness, and far as REALISTIC MWC options in Texas are concerned, what are the arguments against Texas State because I have yet to hear any that seem to make much sense? 
 

I mean there are arguments to stay out of Texas, but assuming if the MWC goes to Texas, who does the MWC realistically take over Texas State? 

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:10 PM, SteedLaw said:

I have been saying for a while now that if we are heading into Texas (and I think we should), then Texas State arguably makes more sense that either UTSA, RICE, or UNT. 
 

UTEP is less sexy, but has both rivalry and connectivity. 
 

Either way, I think both schools would likely consider a protracted buy-in of sorts over a period of, say, four years. And, long term, I think there is synergy there. 
 

I am also with headbutt in that I am not as opposed to the Montana schools as some people are. 
 

Over time, I have come to the realization that anything east of the state of Texas is just too far. We need to keep our regionality for all practical and branding purposes. 

I came close to including the Montanas in my suggested list of expansion targets.  I actually like them as geographically sensible additions to the MWC.  They fit institutionally, they have a good rivalry going and they fill their stadiums.  However they're in a sparsely populated market and so adding them is unlikely to help the conference increase its per-member TV revenue.

[MWC]

On 3/27/2024 at 5:02 PM, HawaiiMongoose said:

I came close to including the Montanas in my suggested list of expansion targets.  I actually like them as geographically sensible additions to the MWC.  They fit institutionally, they have a good rivalry going and they fill their stadiums.  However they're in a sparsely populated market and so adding them is unlikely to help the conference increase its per-member TV revenue.

More mouths to feed is not good.

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 3/27/2024 at 1:59 PM, SteedLaw said:

No.
 

They are located in San Marcos, a space between San Antonio and Austin. They have a second campus in Round Rock. I think if played right, they could build a brand that could pull from all of the above and they appear to be doing just that.

They are in the Sun Belt and have no exit fees. UTSA and UNT have exit fees in their contracts with the AAC. 

They are a young and upcoming brand in one of the fastest-growing areas of one of the largest and fastest-growing states. They have a large student population. They have a large and very respected alumni group — only school in Texas with a former US President as alumnus. Unlike UTSA and UNT, they are not a commuter school; most students live away from home.

According to their charter, they represent the entirety of the state of Texas, almost as a second land-grant (like a mini A&M or, rather, a potential future A&M). They have multiple campuses and research farms. Their research, particularly in forensics and criminal justice, is pretty top notch. Like a lot of other MWC schools, they are the biggest name in town in San Marcos.

They have nice sports facilities, nicer than UNT and UTSA as a whole, excepting UTSA’s use of the Alamodome — which UTsA does not own. They actually own their stadium and their arena. They have an upcoming football program, even beating Baylor this last season. 

In all seriousness, and far as REALISTIC MWC options in Texas are concerned, what are the arguments against Texas State because I have yet to hear any that seem to make much sense? 
 

I mean there are arguments to stay out of Texas, but assuming if the MWC goes to Texas, who does the MWC realistically take over Texas State? 

I've been keeping an eye on Texas State a long time and agree they have a lot of potential.  Moreover they have a good young football coach in G.J. Kinne, who was UH's offensive coordinator in 2020 (one of the few strong performers on Todd Graham's staff) and subsequently engineered surprisingly fast turnarounds at both UIW and Texas State.

If it weren't possible to attract any AAC schools into an expanded MWC, I think a UTEP + Texas State pairing would be the best fallback option.

[SteedLaw]

On 3/27/2024 at 6:10 PM, HawaiiMongoose said:

I've been keeping an eye on Texas State a long time and agree they have a lot of potential.  Moreover they have a good young football coach in G.J. Kinne, who was UH's offensive coordinator in 2020 (one of the few strong performers on Todd Graham's staff) and subsequently engineered surprisingly fast turnarounds at both UIW and Texas State.

If it weren't possible to attract any AAC schools into an expanded MWC, I think a UTEP + Texas State pairing would be the best fallback option.

Bingo.

[Wyobraska]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:41 PM, Warbow said:

I don’t see any other option right now but PPV for Hawaii fans. Until we get a bigger venue (stadium) I’m sure Hawaii fans needs another option to see the games and pay to view it. It’s like adding seats to your attendance.

It's a tough balance right?  You want to get support from the residents of your state but it is unique in that fans have to pay PPV to watch the games.   But, you are correct, it really is like adding seats with travel challenges in the islands.  

[Gonzagafan2021]

On 3/27/2024 at 7:59 PM, SteedLaw said:

No.
 

They are located in San Marcos, a space between San Antonio and Austin. They have a second campus in Round Rock. I think if played right, they could build a brand that could pull from all of the above and they appear to be doing just that.

They are in the Sun Belt and have no exit fees. UTSA and UNT have exit fees in their contracts with the AAC. 

They are a young and upcoming brand in one of the fastest-growing areas of one of the largest and fastest-growing states. They have a large student population. They have a large and very respected alumni group — only school in Texas with a former US President as alumnus. Unlike UTSA and UNT, they are not a commuter school; most students live away from home.

According to their charter, they represent the entirety of the state of Texas, almost as a second land-grant (like a mini A&M or, rather, a potential future A&M). They have multiple campuses and research farms. Their research, particularly in forensics and criminal justice, is pretty top notch. Like a lot of other MWC schools, they are the biggest name in town in San Marcos. They are the biggest game in their home metro (San Marcos) and don’t share that metro with other schools and brands. 

They have nice sports facilities, nicer than UNT and UTSA as a whole, excepting UTSA’s use of the Alamodome — which UTsA does not own. They actually own their stadium and their arena. They have an upcoming football program, even beating Baylor this last season. 

In all seriousness, and far as REALISTIC MWC options in Texas are concerned, what are the arguments against Texas State because I have yet to hear any that seem to make much sense? 
 

I mean there are arguments to stay out of Texas, but assuming if the MWC goes to Texas, who does the MWC realistically take over Texas State? 

Hmm you make a good point. From what I've seen there are a decent amount of commuter Texas schools in the AAC lol. Texas State fans would probably show up against other MWC teams. My question is that would adding Texas State satisfy the recruiting needs that Air Force would want? 

[Headbutt]

On 3/27/2024 at 4:51 PM, MissionTrails said:

Isn't UTEP much more of a rival with NM State than UNM?

Yes.  It's been quite a while but at one time the UNM prez (or maybe AD) stated that with all due respect to UTEP, they weren't a good add for the MWC.

[Headbutt]

On 3/27/2024 at 6:10 PM, HawaiiMongoose said:

I've been keeping an eye on Texas State a long time and agree they have a lot of potential.  Moreover they have a good young football coach in G.J. Kinne, who was UH's offensive coordinator in 2020 (one of the few strong performers on Todd Graham's staff) and subsequently engineered surprisingly fast turnarounds at both UIW and Texas State.

If it weren't possible to attract any AAC schools into an expanded MWC, I think a UTEP + Texas State pairing would be the best fallback option.

Texas State I'm good with.  If we need two Texas schools to make it work then get UTSA, not UTEP.

Still firm that the less impressive (media wise) schools from Montana would be a better add.  Rabid fanbases that would really step up if they went MWC.

[Brew_Poke]

On 3/27/2024 at 7:13 PM, Headbutt said:

Texas State I'm good with.  If we need two Texas schools to make it work then get UTSA, not UTEP.

Still firm that the less impressive (media wise) schools from Montana would be a better add.  Rabid fanbases that would really step up if they went MWC.

Plus, it'd make @lakesbison cry.

[AztecSU]

UTSA over UTEP is fine. But they play in like a 3k arena. UTEP has been terrible, I know, but at least they have the sunbowl and a 12k bb arena.

[UNLV2001]

On 3/27/2024 at 4:16 PM, Gonzagafan2021 said:

What makes Texas State so attractive for the MWC? Is it because they have the word. "State" in its name? 

For many just getting a Texas based school not located in El Paso is the great goal to make the MWC Great Again -- Personally I'm not convinced taking the 6th to 8th Texas based option just because the school is located in Texas is the best strategy 

They say it's about recruiting.......but most MWC programs are going to be the 4th to 6th option for any TX based recruit...........and it's not like the MWC programs don't already recruit Texas -- UNLV WBB has 5 of 14 roster posts filled by Texans without ever playing a game in Texas 

[UNLV2001]

On 3/27/2024 at 6:37 PM, AztecSU said:

UTSA over UTEP is fine. But they play in like a 3k arena. UTEP has been terrible, I know, but at least they have the sunbowl and a 12k bb arena.

UTEP has history with a good amount of MWC programs from the old WAC days...........it's within the MWC footprint ..........BB could be good there in a decent conference 

Not really sure what the fascination / value is from getting the 6th to 9th ranked (in terms of TX pecking order) does for the MWC ............if the Texas fetish is that strong, then the MWC needs to go big & almost create a TX centric division by adding UTEP / UTSA / TX St / N Tx 7 maybe NMSU for their proximity and old ties to many MWC programs 

Maybe the MWC should go big & capture everything in the west not in the B10/B12/ACC.............at this point we aren't getting into the big boys club, so might as well create a western centric conference that could stand alone with 4 divisions in two conferences inside the MWC/PAC name plate 

basically a 4 division conference with 5 to 6 teams per division 

[RSF]

On 3/27/2024 at 6:59 PM, SteedLaw said:

 

In all seriousness, and far as REALISTIC MWC options in Texas are concerned, what are the arguments against Texas State because I have yet to hear any that seem to make much sense? 
 

 

A mediocre school, a lousy athletic program, an undersized and apathetic fan base, in a market where UT dominates all.

Biggest name in San Marcos.  That's a good one.

 

Football would have been better off staying in 1AA.  And Kinne will be gone in 1-2 seasons.

 

And there multiple state school systems that 'represent' the whole state.  With the Texas State system comprised of the leftovers.  It doesnt even have a flagship.

 

And its not a young brand.  Been around 125 years.  Used to be a directional school until they dropped the 'Southwest' from their name in a failed attempt to burnish their image.

Other than that...