Conference Realignment thread

[Someone Else]

1 hour ago, Fowl said:

Can someone be so kind as to remind me the monetary penalties the Pac 2 agreed to with the MW in regards to poaching MW schools.  I vaguely recall it being something like $18mm per school if done after the two year agreement expired and twice that if before two years? 

It's buried somewhere in this thread (or one of the many others) and I can't remember exactly but I don't think it was 18 mil I think it was somewhere between 8-12 mil per school they poached ... of course, then the schools who decide to leave also need to pony up cash which I think is 18 mil or something... 

I fully am expecting to see something other than a full merger... no idea how it will shakeout exactly but if a new conference includes a few former MW schools, the remaining schools will get a nice onetime windfall... so we got that going for us (which is nice)!

[Headbutt]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:35 PM, Warbow said:

I can see Hawaii spitting the Spectrum TV contract into 2 different contracts, one for MWC sports and the other for Big West sports. Right now our Big West sports are getting the shaft as it’s part of the overall contract. Which means the MWC is benefiting from the spectrum contract right now as Hawaii spectrum contracts includes ALL sports. 
 

By spitting the contract into 2 separate contracts Hawaii would probably then opt to receive their MWC portion of its TV deal instead of the spectrum football portion and still collect on the BW portion. Right now Hawaii has opted to receive the spectrum TV monies (which includes BW sports) instead of a MWC TV deal share. 
 

If they do that I don’t foresee any PPV football games being aired. 

Actually, as I understand it, Hawaii gets the PPV $$, plus a MWC share.  If the PPV doesn't come to as much income as the rest of the conference gets, the MWC makes up the difference.  If the PPV exceeds the general MWC share, Hawaii keeps it all.  I'd be fine with this if games were televised in mainland MWC regions, but they're not.

[Warbow]

On 3/26/2024 at 6:22 PM, Headbutt said:

Actually, as I understand it, Hawaii gets the PPV $$, plus a MWC share.  If the PPV doesn't come to as much income as the rest of the conference gets, the MWC makes up the difference.  If the PPV exceeds the general MWC share, Hawaii keeps it all.  I'd be fine with this if games were televised in mainland MWC regions, but they're not.

You’re correct but as it stands now, Hawaii has been getting more from the spectrum deal which includes BE sports.

I think PPV is on its last legs, it has hurt Hawaii attendance more than poor performance.

[Warbow]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:20 PM, Billings said:

isn't the Spectrum TV $$ worth as much or slightly more than the MWC media payout?  

At this time yes but it fluctuates annually.

[Warbow]

On 3/26/2024 at 4:25 PM, Wyobraska said:

Will you guys re-up with Spectrum?  The Islands are obviously unique but having games as PPV is tough.  

Are there any other options that might pay comparatively without being PPV?

I don’t see any other option right now but PPV for Hawaii fans. Until we get a bigger venue (stadium) I’m sure Hawaii fans needs another option to see the games and pay to view it. It’s like adding seats to your attendance.

[Headbutt]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:36 PM, Warbow said:

You’re correct but as it stands now, Hawaii has been getting more from the spectrum deal which includes BE sports.

I think PPV is on its last legs, it has hurt Hawaii attendance more than poor performance.

The next TV deal will be extremely heavy on streaming instead of TV anyway.  Streaming, realignment...buckle up.  Nothing is going to look the same.

[Warbow]

On 3/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Headbutt said:

The next TV deal will be extremely heavy on streaming instead of TV anyway.  Streaming, realignment...buckle up.  Nothing is going to look the same.

Agree, that’s another option to get fans to pay to view games. Still have to work out the “illegal” users like Netflix’s is doing.

[Did I hear a WOOSH?]

On 3/25/2024 at 6:19 PM, Chalsean said:

"Not in the top 4 but with BB/FB will be the clear 5th representing regions and territories not otherwise represented."

Reading is hard..   There will be 4 power conferences left, so he's effectively saying MWC will be the strongest conference not named B10/SEC/B12/ACC.

It was edited.  Either way the point stands.  Love March madness and love how the mwc has done lately but we know football rules the roost and the MWC was rated as the 9th best conference last season, and not much momentum to do better next season.  Any talk of being top 4 or 5 at anything is silly right now.  

[utenation]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:13 AM, Did I hear a WOOSH? said:

It was edited.  Either way the point stands.  Love March madness and love how the mwc has done lately but we know football rules the roost and the MWC was rated as the 9th best conference last season, and not much momentum to do better next season.  Any talk of being top 4 or 5 at anything is silly right now.  

You have a lot of balls trying to puff your chest out about conference rankings. 

UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston all held down the bottom of the B12 in 2023.  Absolutely bringing down the conference image, rankings and SOS. 

You might want to have success before you run your mouth.  AAC trash in B12 clothing. 

That could be another decade before that happens.  

[Did I hear a WOOSH?]

On 3/27/2024 at 3:46 AM, utenation said:

You have a lot of balls trying to puff your chest out about conference rankings. 
 

It shouldn’t take balls to speak the truth, which is all that happened.  Understand your shortcomings on the matter may make that difficult to understand.. luckily for you blissful ignorance is there to keep you warm at night.  Chest puffing…lol

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:13 PM, Did I hear a WOOSH? said:

It was edited.  Either way the point stands.  Love March madness and love how the mwc has done lately but we know football rules the roost and the MWC was rated as the 9th best conference last season, and not much momentum to do better next season.  Any talk of being top 4 or 5 at anything is silly right now.  

Not so.

The final Massey composite ratings ranked the MWC as the 7th best conference last season, behind the P5 and the Sun Belt but ahead of the AAC, CUSA and MAC in that order.

https://masseyratings.com/ranks?s=cf&d=20240108&c=1

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 3/26/2024 at 4:27 PM, Fowl said:

Can someone be so kind as to remind me the monetary penalties the Pac 2 agreed to with the MW in regards to poaching MW schools.  I vaguely recall it being something like $18mm per school if done after the two year agreement expired and twice that if before two years? 

Under the terms of the Pac's recent scheduling agreement with the MWC, if the Pac opts to rebuild with selected MWC schools rather than inviting all 12 to join, and this takes place within two years of the end of the two-year scheduling agreement (i.e. any time before the end of the 2027 season), the Pac would have to pay the MWC an escalating "termination fee" for each MWC school it poached.

https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2024/01/cost-of-rebuilding-pac-12-using-mountain-west-schools-could-exceed-50-million-in-fees.html

This is the termination fee schedule:

Accepting MW Member Institution #1: $10,000,000 ($10,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #2: $10,500,000 ($20,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #3: $11,000,000 ($31,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #4: $11,500,000 ($43,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #5: $12,000,000 ($55,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #6: $12,500,000 ($67,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #7: $13,000,000 ($80,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #8: $13,500,000 ($94,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #9: $14,000,000 ($108,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #10: $14,500,000 ($122,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #11: $15,000,000 ($137,500,000 aggregate)

Here's a link to the full text of the Pac-MWC scheduling agreement:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24356364/mwc-scheduling-agreement-01429274.pdf

The termination fee is described in Article VII which is on pages 11-12. The specific fees above are listed in Schedule 7 on page 36.

As noted in the previous post by Someone Else, these penalties would be in addition to the exit fees that each of the departing schools would owe the MWC.  As most folks here already know, the exit fee per school would be roughly $17 million with more than one year's advance notice and roughly $34 million with less than one year's notice.

So doing a bit of math... if the Pac were to poach six schools from the MWC and those six schools each gave at least a year's notice of their departure, the group of schools left behind would receive a total windfall of $67.5 million + (6 x $17 million) = $169.5 million.  That would put them in a pretty good position to rebuild the conference.

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 3/26/2024 at 6:22 PM, Headbutt said:

Actually, as I understand it, Hawaii gets the PPV $$, plus a MWC share.  If the PPV doesn't come to as much income as the rest of the conference gets, the MWC makes up the difference.  If the PPV exceeds the general MWC share, Hawaii keeps it all.  I'd be fine with this if games were televised in mainland MWC regions, but they're not.

A Warbow says, that's a correct description of the arrangement.  However the annual payout from PPV to UH no longer exceeds the average MWC TV payout.  The past few years the PPV payout has been a bit over $3 million whereas the MWC TV payout per school has been around $4 million.  Therefore UH has been receiving a small equalization payment from the MWC of less than $1 million.  UH also receives roughly $1.5 million in CFP money annually from the MWC, so including that the total amount UH is earning annually from PPV and the MWC combined is between $5 million and $6 million.

Also while it's true that UH PPV games aren't televised on the Mainland, they are streamed for free, albeit on the Team1 Sports app which only works on smartphones and tablets.

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:18 PM, Billings said:

MWC commish has said she would like to expand beyond 14

That would make travel cost and time even less of an issue.  In a 16- or 18-member MWC, UH could play most of its basketball games and volleyball matches in an 8- or 9-member western division and never have to make more than one road trip per season east of the Rockies.  Moreover MWC schools east of the Rockies would each have to travel to UH only once every four or five seasons.

[Did I hear a WOOSH?]

On 3/27/2024 at 4:22 AM, HawaiiMongoose said:

Not so.

The final Massey composite ratings ranked the MWC as the 7th best conference last season, behind the P5 and the Sun Belt but ahead of the AAC, CUSA and MAC in that order.

https://masseyratings.com/ranks?s=cf&d=20240108&c=1

That is not what it says when I look at it, nor do I know anyone outside of maybe some here that would rank it that way..  But on second glance you could take out fbs independents since that’s not a conference so really it’s 8th best, not 9th.

[SteedLaw]

On 3/27/2024 at 2:37 AM, HawaiiMongoose said:

Under the terms of the Pac's recent scheduling agreement with the MWC, if the Pac opts to rebuild with selected MWC schools rather than inviting all 12 to join, and this takes place within two years of the end of the two-year scheduling agreement (i.e. any time before the end of the 2027 season), the Pac would have to pay the MWC an escalating "termination fee" for each MWC school it poached.

https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2024/01/cost-of-rebuilding-pac-12-using-mountain-west-schools-could-exceed-50-million-in-fees.html

This is the termination fee schedule:

Accepting MW Member Institution #1: $10,000,000 ($10,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #2: $10,500,000 ($20,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #3: $11,000,000 ($31,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #4: $11,500,000 ($43,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #5: $12,000,000 ($55,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #6: $12,500,000 ($67,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #7: $13,000,000 ($80,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #8: $13,500,000 ($94,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #9: $14,000,000 ($108,000,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #10: $14,500,000 ($122,500,000 aggregate)

Accepting MW Member Institution #11: $15,000,000 ($137,500,000 aggregate)

Here's a link to the full text of the Pac-MWC scheduling agreement:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24356364/mwc-scheduling-agreement-01429274.pdf

The termination fee is described in Article VII which is on pages 11-12. The specific fees above are listed in Schedule 7 on page 36.

As noted in the previous post by Someone Else, these penalties would be in addition to the exit fees that each of the departing schools would owe the MWC.  As most folks here already know, the exit fee per school would be roughly $17 million with more than one year's advance notice and roughly $34 million with less than one year's notice.

So doing a bit of math... if the Pac were to poach six schools from the MWC and those six schools each gave at least a year's notice of their departure, the group of schools left behind would receive a total windfall of $67.5 million + (6 x $17 million) = $169.5 million.  That would put them in a pretty good position to rebuild the conference.

What it does is make it impossible to poach, period and full stop. It is an all out merger or nothing. The contract also REQUIRES merger negations prior to any attempts at poaching or OSU and WSU are in breach. It also makes it impossible for 9 departing members to vote to dissolve the MWC  and join with the PAC-2 during that time frame. 

Regardless, nobody is going to pay $17M plus $10M or more plus legal fees and costs to join up with OSU and WSU and their programs, which are essentially now gutted after a full season of not being able to tell their coaches and student athletes where they are playing in the future. No one is certainly paying 34 plus 10 or more plus costs and legal fees. And, the more time that passes with OSU and WSU having no conference the more impossible this becomes — it is not like the situation is getting better for them. 

 

[Chalsean]

On 3/26/2024 at 2:49 PM, Warbow said:

Hearing rumors…

Are you guys ready to welcome Hawaii as a full member of the MWC?

i would love it!  should have always been that way

[BSUTOP25]

On 3/27/2024 at 3:54 AM, Did I hear a WOOSH? said:

That is not what it says when I look at it, nor do I know anyone outside of maybe some here that would rank it that way..  But on second glance you could take out fbs independents since that’s not a conference so really it’s 8th best, not 9th.

It ranks the MWC is the 7th best conference you moron.

[Chalsean]

cut him some slack, hes probably reading it on his cell phone at waffle house

[SteedLaw]

On 3/27/2024 at 6:45 AM, BSUTOP25 said:

It ranks the MWC is the 7th best conference you moron.

Sun Belt had a fluke year — a year when the stars and moon perfectly aligned is all. Everyone knows it. Statistically based on athletic department sizes and revenues on averages and expenditures, it is not happening again anytime soon.
 

Lightning does not strike the same place twice…

MWC is still the top of the G5 in all sports — especially men’s basketball.