Conference Realignment thread

[bigd]

On 3/3/2024 at 11:35 PM, ---I GREEN INFECTION I--- said:

 

"LOL just LOL."

UCSB is too remote???    It’s 59-mi from LA Co?  How is SB remote & Davis isn’t?  Davis is great if you like rice fields.

I’ve had to go to Pomona for wrk multiple times.  It’s a shit-hole a-1/4-step better than SoCent LA w/poorer weather & more smog.

I took Summer & Winter Session classes at CSULB.  Total commuter school.  "Just say NO."

 

Given the choices you laid out, I recommend:

#1 - Univ o’ California - Santa Barbara

#2 - Cal Poly-SLO

#3 - UCSD

#4 - UCD

#5 - UCI

 

IMO UCD still has the most potential of the non P5 UC’s. Obviously fielding a football team is a big part of that, but Sacramento is a good sports town that UCD could tap into. I’d love to see both them and Sac State in FBS someday.

 

[agswin]

However solid the SDSU and NDSU programs might seem, I just don't see them as great candidates to upgrade the profile and recognition for the MWC.

Have you driven across the Dakota's?  Same comment for the Montana twins.  Great areas for natural and scenic appeal,  but if the MWC is looking to expand and improve their profile soon, I hope the focus will on schools in areas with a population and fanbase.

WSU and OSU seem like a very good place to start with additions if the goal is to really upgrade the profile of the MWC.

And I would look at upgrading the conference by adding St. Mary's and Gonzaga among the non-football schools.

 

 

[MissionTrails]

On 3/4/2024 at 3:26 PM, bigd said:

IMO UCD still has the most potential of the non P5 UC’s. Obviously fielding a football team is a big part of that, but Sacramento is a good sports town that UCD could tap into. I’d love to see both them and Sac State in FBS someday.

 

I may be biased because it's in my hometown, but I think UCSD has passed UC Davis in potential, athletically. They're solid in MBB, WBB, and baseball. Like most UC's, they don't have football, but they have a big spread-out campus, with athletic fields in a beautiful area near the ocean. They have lots of funds, they could build a nice stadium and develop a football program if they decide that's the route they want to take. I know football was up for discussion when they decided to make the move from D-2 to D-1.

[jdgaucho]

On 3/4/2024 at 4:01 PM, MissionTrails said:

I may be biased because it's in my hometown, but I think UCSD has passed UC Davis in potential, athletically. They're solid in MBB, WBB, and baseball. Like most UC's, they don't have football, but they have a big spread-out campus, with athletic fields in a beautiful area near the ocean. They have lots of funds, they could build a nice stadium and develop a football program if they decide that's the route they want to take. I know football was up for discussion when they decided to make the move from D-2 to D-1.

 

Nice to see praise of UCSD. Their athletics foundation is in place and they have acclimated themselves to Division 1 better than I expected them to.

[dAB]

On 3/3/2024 at 8:35 PM, ---I GREEN INFECTION I--- said:

 

"LOL just LOL."

UCSB is too remote???    It’s 59-mi from LA Co?  How is SB remote & Davis isn’t?  Davis is great if you like rice fields.

I’ve had to go to Pomona for wrk multiple times.  It’s a shit-hole a-1/4-step better than SoCent LA w/poorer weather & more smog.

I took Summer & Winter Session classes at CSULB.  Total commuter school.  "Just say NO."

 

Given the choices you laid out, I recommend:

#1 - Univ o’ California - Santa Barbara

#2 - Cal Poly-SLO

#3 - UCSD

#4 - UCD

#5 - UCI

 

Maybe "remote" was an ambiguous word choice.  A better one would be "isolated".  We toured the campus and between the ocean and the surrounding fields it felt a little like sleepy hollow.  Daughter did not like that feeling.

My pocket book likes CSULB because as you point out it is a commuter school and she could live at home (saving me $25k/year).  CSULB also is a great academic institution.  Very under rated.  Best engineer new hire that I have ever had work for me (I have had many) graduated from CSULB.  Worst by the way graduated from Cal Tech.  Mudders have consistently been really good as have Cal Poly Pomona and SLO.

Right now daughter likes 

1.  Cal Poly Pomona (she loves the cows, pigs, horses, sheep and goats right on campus along with the orchards)

2.  UCI, she has good friends that go there.

3.  UCD, it is my alma mater and she is a daddy's girl.

4.  UCSD

5.  USC (she will need a scholarship, unfortunately, wife and I make too much for the need-based scholarships)

 

[Pelado]

On 3/4/2024 at 6:30 PM, dAB said:

5.  USC (she will need a scholarship, unfortunately, wife and I make too much for the need-based scholarships)

 

Quit your jobs.

[utgrizfan]

On 3/4/2024 at 4:37 PM, agswin said:

Same comment for the Montana twins.  Great areas for natural and scenic appeal,  but if the MWC is looking to expand and improve their profile soon, I hope the focus will on schools in areas with a population and fanbase.

WSU and OSU seem like a very good place to start with additions if the goal is to really upgrade the profile of the MWC.

 

I mean in terms of fan base, not counting the Playoffs, Montana beat the following 8 MWC schools in Average attendance in 2023:

SDSU, UNLV, Wyoming, Utah State, Nevada, SJSU, New Mexico, *Hawaii

(*Hawaii new Stadium may/should change this, side note Montana State would also beat the last 5 teams on this list*)

https://www.d1ticker.com/2023-fbs-attendance-trends/

It's one of our greatest selling points, having great attendance (even during our last losing season) and also traveling well to away games, MSU to a lesser extent but they still do well. Both Montanas would also fit perfectly in the MWC geographical footprint.

That being said I'm still well aware the best chance we have to move up is if the MWC is only partially raided, and we all know how unlikely that is to happen. Plus unfortunately the biggest shortcoming, lack of eyeballs which translates to little to no TV $$ value is an issue.

[dAB]

On 3/4/2024 at 5:43 PM, Pelado said:

Quit your jobs.

Isn’t that the sad state of affairs.  We make enough to do USC with much sacrifice, but middle income people are really screwed.

my wife, who does not have to work for the money as we live well beneath our means, teaches in an inner city HS near USC and they have a program for the kids where every kid who completes the program get to go to USC paid in full.

Unfortunately, it does not apply to the children of the teachers who teach there.

[jdgaucho]

@utenation

 

 

[SteedLaw]

On 3/4/2024 at 10:02 PM, utgrizfan said:

I mean in terms of fan base, not counting the Playoffs, Montana beat the following 8 MWC schools in Average attendance in 2023:

SDSU, UNLV, Wyoming, Utah State, Nevada, SJSU, New Mexico, *Hawaii

(*Hawaii new Stadium may/should change this, side note Montana State would also beat the last 5 teams on this list*)

https://www.d1ticker.com/2023-fbs-attendance-trends/

It's one of our greatest selling points, having great attendance (even during our last losing season) and also traveling well to away games, MSU to a lesser extent but they still do well. Both Montanas would also fit perfectly in the MWC geographical footprint.

That being said I'm still well aware the best chance we have to move up is if the MWC is only partially raided, and we all know how unlikely that is to happen. Plus unfortunately the biggest shortcoming, lack of eyeballs which translates to little to no TV $$ value is an issue.

I for one think the MWC should send a CLEAR message to the NW twins -- either put up or shut up already.

With all due respect, I think we are all growing tired of accomodating the waiting game here. I mean, to be blunt, someone needs to snap OSU/WSU back into reality. Look, academically and/or athletically, they both are great schools/teams, but the facts show would not be at the top of the new MWC in ANY area -- and that is a fact. They are acting like they are better than us and, by any objective measurement in any area, they just are not. 

Personally, I think the MWC should invite the two Montana schools -- whom I believe would be FANTASTIC additions to the conference -- and send a clear message to the NW twins that ,"We are moving to 14 schools/teams without you. We would love to move to 16 schools/teams with you, but we certainly do not need you and will be moving to 16 teams within the month." 

Then, give them 30 days to respond and if it is still some bogus "we need more time" argument, then offer Cal Davis and UTSA/Texas State already and be done with them -- let their football teams die in independence hell and their olympic sports waste away in the subpar WCC for all we care. 

[alum93]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:47 AM, SteedLaw said:

I for one think the MWC should send a CLEAR message to the NW twins -- either put up or shut up already.

With all due respect, I think we are all growing tired of accomodating the waiting game here. I mean, to be blunt, someone needs to snap OSU/WSU back into reality. Look, academically and/or athletically, they both are great schools/teams, but the facts show would not be at the top of the new MWC in ANY area -- and that is a fact. They are acting like they are better than us and, by any objective measurement in any area, they just are not. 

Personally, I think the MWC should invite the two Montana schools -- whom I believe would be FANTASTIC additions to the conference -- and send a clear message to the NW twins that ,"We are moving to 14 schools/teams without you. We would love to move to 16 schools/teams with you, but we certainly do not need you and will be moving to 16 teams within the month." 

Then, give them 30 days to respond and if it is still some bogus "we need more time" argument, then offer Cal Davis and UTSA/Texas State already and be done with them -- let their football teams die in independence hell and their olympic sports waste away in the subpar WCC for all we care. 

Something tells me OSU and WSU, who have been playing the likes of Washington, UCLA, USC, and Oregon,  won't be threatened into agreeing to anything by a possible addition of Cal Davis and Texas State to the MWC.  I think you are left waiting at least a year for anything more than the current scheduling agreement in football.   And it may be a tiny chance, but the best of the rest option is still out there, which would split the MWC in two.  Stranger things have happened - like the P12 collapsing overnight.  I still think everything is pointing to WSU and OSU joining MWC for all sports in 2026 - unless of course the ACC schools find a way around the GOR.  If the ACC schools can be poached short term, then it's game on and we'll see all sort of changes.  I don't see that happening either, but when big money is involved you never know.

Cal Davis and Montana State?  Alrighty...

[jdgaucho]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:47 AM, SteedLaw said:

I for one think the MWC should send a CLEAR message to the NW twins -- either put up or shut up already.

With all due respect, I think we are all growing tired of accomodating the waiting game here. I mean, to be blunt, someone needs to snap OSU/WSU back into reality. Look, academically and/or athletically, they both are great schools/teams, but the facts show would not be at the top of the new MWC in ANY area -- and that is a fact. They are acting like they are better than us and, by any objective measurement in any area, they just are not. 

Personally, I think the MWC should invite the two Montana schools -- whom I believe would be FANTASTIC additions to the conference -- and send a clear message to the NW twins that ,"We are moving to 14 schools/teams without you. We would love to move to 16 schools/teams with you, but we certainly do not need you and will be moving to 16 teams within the month." 

Then, give them 30 days to respond and if it is still some bogus "we need more time" argument, then offer Cal Davis and UTSA/Texas State already and be done with them -- let their football teams die in independence hell and their olympic sports waste away in the subpar WCC for all we care. 

 

I doubt the three Cal States would want to "elevate" a northern UC...

[MissionTrails]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:47 AM, SteedLaw said:

I for one think the MWC should send a CLEAR message to the NW twins -- either put up or shut up already.

With all due respect, I think we are all growing tired of accomodating the waiting game here. I mean, to be blunt, someone needs to snap OSU/WSU back into reality. Look, academically and/or athletically, they both are great schools/teams, but the facts show would not be at the top of the new MWC in ANY area -- and that is a fact. They are acting like they are better than us and, by any objective measurement in any area, they just are not. 

Personally, I think the MWC should invite the two Montana schools -- whom I believe would be FANTASTIC additions to the conference -- and send a clear message to the NW twins that ,"We are moving to 14 schools/teams without you. We would love to move to 16 schools/teams with you, but we certainly do not need you and will be moving to 16 teams within the month." 

Then, give them 30 days to respond and if it is still some bogus "we need more time" argument, then offer Cal Davis and UTSA/Texas State already and be done with them -- let their football teams die in independence hell and their olympic sports waste away in the subpar WCC for all we care. 

I don't understand your thinking. The Pac 2 schools are smart to play the waiting game to see how things shake out. It doesn't necessarily mean they won't sign on with the MWC in maybe 6 -12 months. It's not about your school, or my school, or any of the other MWC members. The Pac 2 schools need to do what's best for themselves right now, and the best thing for now is to not commit to anything more than a couple years. It was the same when SDSU was wanting to join what was then the remaining Pac 10. We saw it at that time as the best thing for our school in the future for a number of reasons, not just athletically. It wasn't a 'we're better than you, so bye' situation. Don't go by what a few vocal posters on this board or AztecMesa were saying. They don't represent the school. Of course, we all know that blew up in our face. Not any fault of our own. And no, de la Torre's letter wasn't what made it blow up either, but most of you already know that.

Anyway, I know I digressed, but I do see a lot of similarities between their situation and ours, as well as parallel reactions from this board. There's still a whole lot of ways this could all shake out, even though some sort of merge with the MWC and Pac 2 is the most likely scenario.

[Spaztecs]

On 3/4/2024 at 4:37 PM, agswin said:

However solid the SDSU and NDSU programs might seem, I just don't see them as great candidates to upgrade the profile and recognition for the MWC.

Have you driven across the Dakota's?  Same comment for the Montana twins.  Great areas for natural and scenic appeal,  but if the MWC is looking to expand and improve their profile soon, I hope the focus will on schools in areas with a population and fanbase.

WSU and OSU seem like a very good place to start with additions if the goal is to really upgrade the profile of the MWC.

And I would look at upgrading the conference by adding St. Mary's and Gonzaga among the non-football schools.

 

 

 

Neither of the Pac refugees fills your criteria for Schools in pop centers or with large fan bases.

 

[Spaztecs]

On 3/4/2024 at 10:02 PM, utgrizfan said:

I mean in terms of fan base, not counting the Playoffs, Montana beat the following 8 MWC schools in Average attendance in 2023:

SDSU, UNLV, Wyoming, Utah State, Nevada, SJSU, New Mexico, *Hawaii

(*Hawaii new Stadium may/should change this, side note Montana State would also beat the last 5 teams on this list*)

https://www.d1ticker.com/2023-fbs-attendance-trends/

It's one of our greatest selling points, having great attendance (even during our last losing season) and also traveling well to away games, MSU to a lesser extent but they still do well. Both Montanas would also fit perfectly in the MWC geographical footprint.

That being said I'm still well aware the best chance we have to move up is if the MWC is only partially raided, and we all know how unlikely that is to happen. Plus unfortunately the biggest shortcoming, lack of eyeballs which translates to little to no TV $$ value is an issue.

The Montanas have a high floor for a fan base. But, their ceiling is low.

[aztech]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:47 AM, SteedLaw said:

I for one think the MWC should send a CLEAR message to the NW twins -- either put up or shut up already.

With all due respect, I think we are all growing tired of accomodating the waiting game here. I mean, to be blunt, someone needs to snap OSU/WSU back into reality. Look, academically and/or athletically, they both are great schools/teams, but the facts show would not be at the top of the new MWC in ANY area -- and that is a fact. They are acting like they are better than us and, by any objective measurement in any area, they just are not. 

Personally, I think the MWC should invite the two Montana schools -- whom I believe would be FANTASTIC additions to the conference -- and send a clear message to the NW twins that ,"We are moving to 14 schools/teams without you. We would love to move to 16 schools/teams with you, but we certainly do not need you and will be moving to 16 teams within the month." 

Then, give them 30 days to respond and if it is still some bogus "we need more time" argument, then offer Cal Davis and UTSA/Texas State already and be done with them -- let their football teams die in independence hell and their olympic sports waste away in the subpar WCC for all we care. 

Do you realize how big of a windfall they have?  They'd lose it all if they joined the MWC.  They ain't fools.   

[renoskier]

On 3/5/2024 at 5:42 PM, aztech said:

Do you realize how big of a windfall they have?  They'd lose it all if they joined the MWC.  They ain't fools.   

what "windfall"?

they should get to keep and split whatever NCAA bball tournament credits the P12 has but beyond that...

[Headbutt]

@SteedLaw's plan is full of holes, but he nailed one thing.  At this point the twins should be working on how they're going to get absorbed by the MWC, not deciding if they're willing to associate with us.  They can't afford to do anything different, and stringing us along is elitist and stupid.  They do one thing better than the MWC, recruit.  That's a temporary thing now.  The Pac fell apart a while ago, they should be past denial by now.  I suppose that since the Pac isn't really disbanded until July 1, they may be waiting to make their intentions known but any assumptions they have of leading the charge to a new power conference are fools gold.  If they're everything they seem to think they are, they should've just taken that Big 10 offer.  Oh, wait.....

[BacksThePack]

Who wants them to join the MWC anyways? Pretty sure we all want to wear that new P12 skin clothing. Saying we're in the P12 because of it's former associations will still mean more than saying your in the MWC ever will.

[NorCalCoug]

On 3/4/2024 at 4:37 PM, agswin said:

However solid the SDSU and NDSU programs might seem, I just don't see them as great candidates to upgrade the profile and recognition for the MWC.

Have you driven across the Dakota's?  Same comment for the Montana twins.  Great areas for natural and scenic appeal,  but if the MWC is looking to expand and improve their profile soon, I hope the focus will on schools in areas with a population and fanbase.

WSU and OSU seem like a very good place to start with additions if the goal is to really upgrade the profile of the MWC.

And I would look at upgrading the conference by adding St. Mary's and Gonzaga among the non-football schools.

 

 

St. Mary’s????  The conference would regret that long term.  They’re one HC retirement away from being completely irrelevant.  Some will ignorantly say “But what about Gonzaga….”.  At least Gonzaga has the history, tradition, profile, investment, facilities, fanbase, etc. that they will always maintain at least semblance of success. St Mary’s has none of that.