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Did I hear a WOOSH?

Conference Realignment thread

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On 2/15/2024 at 5:40 PM, utenation said:

I think you need a trip down memory lane on this one. I never said the P12 would get or was worth more than the B12.. In fact, it was quite the other way around. For months and years, all we heard on this thread is how much more the B12 was worth than the P12. You and your little handicapped buddy @Did I hear a WOOSH?, the Houston Bozos and the TCU parrot were the ones talking big boy B12 numbers and the demise of the P12 over and over and over.

All I said is I wanted a fair deal with the P12.

 

 

 

LOL...your memory is quite flawed.  Shame, really.  I had y'alls back the whole time....and then the P12 cratered.  But that doesnt fit into your current narrative.

It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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On 2/15/2024 at 4:50 PM, RSF said:

LOL...your memory is quite flawed.  Shame, really.  I had y'alls back the whole time....and then the P12 cratered.  But that doesnt fit into your current narrative.

 

On 2/7/2024 at 10:32 AM, RSF said:

And Yormark played the P12 like a fiddle.  

My mistake. Perhaps I misunderstood you when you were polishing Yormark’s knob and really had the back of the P12?

It’s kinda hard to hear words correctly when the person you are speaking to has a mouth full of marbles. 
 

 

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On 2/15/2024 at 5:36 PM, utenation said:

 

My mistake. Perhaps I misunderstood you when you were polishing Yormark’s knob and really had the back of the P12?

It’s kinda hard to hear words correctly when the person you are speaking to has a mouth full of marbles. 
 

 

But what did the Presidents and AD’s say on the matter?  

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On 2/15/2024 at 6:03 PM, NorCalCoug said:

But what did the Presidents and AD’s say on the matter?  

Sure. I took what they said during the negotiations at face value and my theories were based on that. I was wrong but I wasn’t the only one.  
 

Not any different than you clowns quoting Twitter Rangers 15 times a day as facts. Your angst over the P12 not accepting BYU all these decades and you wanting the conference to fail read like a children’s book. And clouded any objectively. 
 

Just remember a broken watch is still right twice a day. 

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On 2/15/2024 at 6:36 PM, utenation said:

 

My mistake. Perhaps I misunderstood you when you were polishing Yormark’s knob and really had the back of the P12?

It’s kinda hard to hear words correctly when the person you are speaking to has a mouth full of marbles. 
 

 

Boy, are you having a bad day.  Go sleep it off.

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It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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On 2/15/2024 at 5:50 PM, RSF said:

LOL...your memory is quite flawed.  Shame, really.  I had y'alls back the whole time....and then the P12 cratered.  But that doesnt fit into your current narrative.

 

Jon Wilner & John Canzano (aka Jon & John) have a decent podcast this week about how George Kliavkoff just wasn't a "cut throat" and that's what the Pac needed. Utah was widely portrayed as a school that was finally able to get to the top of that league and the Utes didn't want to give up that position.

I feel for the Utes because more than any other school they plastered the Pac 12 logo around - on billboards and merch - even more than their own logo. For most of the other Pac schools, that's reversed.

Kliavkoff just wasn't a match for Yormark, and got his throat ripped out. I don't think any MWC fans feel bad about that - only stragglers who no longer have any ties to the MWC. Gloria Nevarez kicked Kliavkoff's ass too by enforcing the MWC exit fee.

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On 2/15/2024 at 11:25 PM, Destiny Dutch said:

 

Jon Wilner & John Canzano (aka Jon & John) have a decent podcast this week about how George Kliavkoff just wasn't a "cut throat" and that's what the Pac needed. Utah was widely portrayed as a school that was finally able to get to the top of that league and the Utes didn't want to give up that position.

I feel for the Utes because more than any other school they plastered the Pac 12 logo around - on billboards and merch - even more than their own logo. For most of the other Pac schools, that's reversed.

Kliavkoff just wasn't a match for Yormark, and got his throat ripped out. I don't think any MWC fans feel bad about that - only stragglers who no longer have any ties to the MWC. Gloria Nevarez kicked Kliavkoff's ass too by enforcing the MWC exit fee.

SDSU fans may disagree here.  They had a real shot at joining that league had it survived.

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On 2/15/2024 at 11:25 PM, Destiny Dutch said:

 

Jon Wilner & John Canzano (aka Jon & John) have a decent podcast this week about how George Kliavkoff just wasn't a "cut throat" and that's what the Pac needed. Utah was widely portrayed as a school that was finally able to get to the top of that league and the Utes didn't want to give up that position.

I feel for the Utes because more than any other school they plastered the Pac 12 logo around - on billboards and merch - even more than their own logo. For most of the other Pac schools, that's reversed.

Kliavkoff just wasn't a match for Yormark, and got his throat ripped out. I don't think any MWC fans feel bad about that - only stragglers who no longer have any ties to the MWC. Gloria Nevarez kicked Kliavkoff's ass too by enforcing the MWC exit fee.

I think a lot of what you said here is fictional. The public narrative spun in the media. First off, you’re giving GK too much credit for what did or didn’t happen.  He’s not that smart. He certainly didn’t tell 10 presidents to turn down $30 million. That was all on their own.  Their own greed and egos. GK did act like a fool in the media. That’s on him. 
 

Second, when Utah moved to the P12, it was a big deal. There was excitement and conference propaganda in the community.  A few billboards, car stickers etc. But that was over a decade ago.  That pretty much faded with time like after the honeymoon period.  I’m not sure what parts of Salt Lake you are visiting with logos everywhere but it’s rare these days. I’ve been here for 40 years. 

Fact is, many of our fans were proud of being in the P12 academically and for sports. Why? It was a perfect fit. 

I think where most of your fiction comes in is thinking commissioners are pushing all the buttons behind the Wizard of Oz curtain. There are certainly some better than others but they don’t fart unless Presidents say so. 
 

The P10 Presidents fell on their own swords on this one. Nothing more. 

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I was thinking about how the latest round of expansion really identified the actual value and prestige of certain P5 schools.  Here are the schools that reclassified to new conferences.

TIER 1 (SEC and BIG TEN)

Texas, Oklahoma, USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington

 

TIER 2 (ACC -- similar to the BIG12, but higher academic status, and some elite schools)

Stanford, Cal, SMU

(some current schools in this conference making moves to move to Tier 1)

 

TIER 3 (BIG12 -- close parity, but no true elite schools)

UCF, Houston, Utah, Cinci, BYU, Colorado, ASU, Arizona

 

TIER 4 (PAC 2.0) / MWC (above the rest of the G5)

Washington St., Oregon St.

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On 2/16/2024 at 9:01 AM, utenation said:

I think a lot of what you said here is fictional. The public narrative spun in the media. First off, you’re giving GK too much credit for what did or didn’t happen.  He’s not that smart. He certainly didn’t tell 10 presidents to turn down $30 million. That was all on their own.  Their own greed and egos. GK did act like a fool in the media. That’s on him. 
 

Second, when Utah moved to the P12, it was a big deal. There was excitement and conference propaganda in the community.  A few billboards, car stickers etc. But that was over a decade ago.  That pretty much faded with time like after the honeymoon period.  I’m not sure what parts of Salt Lake you are visiting with logos everywhere but it’s rare these days. I’ve been here for 40 years. 

Fact is, many of our fans were proud of being in the P12 academically and for sports. Why? It was a perfect fit. 

I think where most of your fiction comes in is thinking commissioners are pushing all the buttons behind the Wizard of Oz curtain. There are certainly some better than others but they don’t fart unless Presidents say so. 
 

The P10 Presidents fell on their own swords on this one. Nothing more. 

 

from the outside looking in, Utah just got lucky to join the PAC12 - remember they were trying to add BIG12 schools.  The took Colorado first, and then when Texas, Oklahoma, etc and company said no, they went to 12 by adding Utah.  i get that you are proud, but i don't know if Utah is that similar to the elite schools in the PAC12. 

If you are going by "perfect fit" in the PAC12, I always believed that San Diego State belonged in the PAC, but that UCLA and USC were to scared to add a so cal recruiting competitor so they blocked the Aztecs

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On 2/16/2024 at 11:59 AM, Motown Monty said:

I was thinking about how the latest round of expansion really identified the actual value and prestige of certain P5 schools.  Here are the schools that reclassified to new conferences.

TIER 1 (SEC and BIG TEN)

Texas, Oklahoma, USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington

 

TIER 2 (ACC -- similar to the BIG12, but higher academic status, and some elite schools)

Stanford, Cal, SMU

(some current schools in this conference making moves to move to Tier 1)

 

TIER 3 (BIG12 -- close parity, but no true elite schools)

UCF, Houston, Utah, Cinci, BYU, Colorado, ASU, Arizona

 

TIER 4 (PAC 2.0) / MWC (above the rest of the G5)

Washington St., Oregon St.

I'm confused on this one when you say value. Cal and Stanford will be making about $7 million per year until a new TV contract is done if this pitiful conference even survives that long. Didn't SMU agree to no TV revenue at all for 9 years? How is this value and tier 2?

 

BTW, the most valuable schools don't get taken last and agree to no TV money or G5 TV money at best.

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On 2/16/2024 at 12:08 PM, Motown Monty said:

 

from the outside looking in, Utah just got lucky to join the PAC12 - remember they were trying to add BIG12 schools.  The took Colorado first, and then when Texas, Oklahoma, etc and company said no, they went to 12 by adding Utah.  i get that you are proud, but i don't know if Utah is that similar to the elite schools in the PAC12. 

If you are going by "perfect fit" in the PAC12, I always believed that San Diego State belonged in the PAC, but that UCLA and USC were to scared to add a so cal recruiting competitor so they blocked the Aztecs

Based on Utah's results, championships and added conference pooled revenue, I'd say the P12 got a good deal, wouldn't you? How has first pick CU done for the P12? lol.

Utah has been to 4 of the last 6 CCGs in the P12. Nobody else has been that consistent in the new league. 

 

And clearly SDSU wasn't a fit in any capacity based on additions even though your school decided to write "we're leaving" letters to the MWC without an invite. 

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On 2/16/2024 at 11:11 AM, utenation said:

I'm confused on this one when you say value. Cal and Stanford will be making about $7 million per year until a new TV contract is done if this pitiful conference even survives that long. Didn't SMU agree to no TV revenue at all for 9 years? How is this value and tier 2?

 

BTW, the most valuable schools don't get taken last and agree to no TV money.

 

its arbitrary, and a judgment of the entire conference's perceived value / prestige.

I'm just placing the ACC over the BIG12 because the ACC looks like it has much higher academic standards than the BIG12 (Stanford, Cal, Notre Dame, UNC, Duke).    Stanford and Cal would join the ACC because of academics reputations but did not want to join the BIG12.

Plus, they have some elite schools athletically that the BIG12 doesn't really have.

I also think that the ACC could take a few BIG12 schools whenever it wants, but that the BIG12 is unlikely to be able to lure ACC schools.

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On 2/16/2024 at 12:23 PM, Motown Monty said:

I also think that the ACC could take a few BIG12 schools whenever it wants, but that the BIG12 is unlikely to be able to lure ACC schools.

Last I checked the best schools in the ACC were looking for loopholes to get out of the conference. And how much would the prestigious ACC be able to pay all the B12 schools they could take at any time? Maybe all these B12 schools would go on prestige alone and move further East for a 75% paycut?

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On 2/16/2024 at 11:13 AM, utenation said:

Based on Utah's results, championships and added conference pooled revenue, I'd say the P12 got a good deal, wouldn't you? How has first pick CU done for the P12? lol.

And clearly SDSU wasn't a fit in any capacity based on additions even though your school decided to write "we're leaving" letters to the MWC without an invite. 

I'll grant you that first comment. As for your second, in any capacity? In just about any metric, SDSU was more deserving of Pac membership than OSU and WSU with SDSU having considerable potential to widen that gap going forward.

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On 2/16/2024 at 1:23 PM, Motown Monty said:

 

I also think that the ACC could take a few BIG12 schools whenever it wants, but that the BIG12 is unlikely to be able to lure ACC schools.

And you'd be wrong at this point.  The money is better in the Big 12, but much like with the P12 not enough to make a difference.  And both conferences have a GOR, so nobody's going anywhere currently.  When the inevitable fracturing of the ACC occurs, it won't be ACC raiding the B12.  Because the ACC will lose its most valuable schools first, and nobody jumps conferences for less money unless they have to (like Stanford and Cal).

 

BTW...it wasnt Stanford and Cal that turned down the B12.  It was the other way around.

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It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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On 2/16/2024 at 12:43 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

I'll grant you that first comment. As for your second, in any capacity? In just about any metric, SDSU was more deserving of Pac membership than OSU and WSU with SDSU having considerable potential to widen that gap going forward.

I've been on record for a long time saying personally I liked adding SDSU. But I'm not a decision maker. And the decision makers said no in every capacity. Just the facts.

But honestly, P12 Presidents aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Pretty sad for an academic conference. 

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On 2/16/2024 at 9:56 AM, NorCalCoug said:

SDSU fans may disagree here.  They had a real shot at joining that league had it survived.

They did, but it was never going to be easy.  That was Gloria's first real challenge as commish and she had to convince the MWC board that they needed to get their pound of flesh.  Couldn't come in soft, so SDSU was going to feel pain upon departure as much as a statement as a matter of policy.

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On 2/16/2024 at 1:39 PM, Headbutt said:

They did, but it was never going to be easy.  That was Gloria's first real challenge as commish and she had to convince the MWC board that they needed to get their pound of flesh.  Couldn't come in soft, so SDSU was going to feel pain upon departure as much as a statement as a matter of policy.

 

That's what a good commissioner does. Communicate well

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On 2/16/2024 at 1:39 PM, Headbutt said:

They did, but it was never going to be easy.  That was Gloria's first real challenge as commish and she had to convince the MWC board that they needed to get their pound of flesh.  Couldn't come in soft, so SDSU was going to feel pain upon departure as much as a statement as a matter of policy.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the MW did what is typical upon notification of a departing conference member. You withhold payments and only payout net after penalties... Is that not how all the other conferences have handled this scenario? 

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