Conference Realignment thread

[Raz]

Let's get real.  All other players from teams/conferences are simply a feeder-system to the SEC/B10.  Thank you portal.  Winning is expense, the SEC/B10 have the $$$ to fund winning.  The rest don't.  Only these two mega-heavy-weight conferences are compelling enough to feel like the NFL.  And matter and thus capture interest among college football fans from all corners in the USA.   Only in the SEC/B10, every week, the top teams compete.   Who you gonna watch (a pay $$$$)?  Not the MWC.  

Hate to be so brutal but this obvious truth is needed here.

[EvilPoke]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:55 PM, Raz said:

Let's get real.  All other players from teams/conferences are simply a feeder-system to the SEC/B10.  Thank you portal.  Winning is expense, the SEC/B10 have the $$$ to fund winning.  The rest don't.  Only these two mega-heavy-weight conferences are compelling enough to feel like the NFL.  And matter and thus capture interest among college football fans from all corners in the USA.   Only in the SEC/B10, every week, the top teams compete.   Who you gonna watch (a pay $$$$)?  Not the MWC.  

Hate to be so brutal but this obvious truth is needed here.

[Headbutt]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:55 PM, AztecSU said:

It's not 1996 and it never will be again. Look at what's happening. Even the SBC is thriving at 14 schools. 15 schools in FB, with the additions of WSU/OSU/UTEP fits within our existing footprint for the most part. And UTEP is UNM's only natural rival besides NMSU, and they have the sun bowl. Gonzaga and GCU may be a stretch, but they fit into the conference footprint for the most part and have great BB programs with a lot of passion. 15 FB schools and 16 Oly schools would be fine. The real question is would anyone pay for it and the answer it pretty clearly a no. 

FB - WSU/OSU, SJSU/FSU, NEV/UNLV, WYO/CSU, USU/BSU, UNM/UTEP, UH/SDSU, AFA

BB - North(WSU/OSU/BSU/USU/CSU/WYO/AFA/ZAGS) South(SJSU/FSU/SDSU/NEV/UNLV/GCU/UNM/UTEP)

How long since UTEP brought the Sun Bowl?  It's been a low level ACC/Pac12 matchup for better than a decade now.  We've all got our preferences, and I respect others opinions.  However, my preference is hell no to UTEP and I don't see any real value in GCU or even Gonzaga.

[Did I hear a WOOSH?]

On 2/9/2024 at 5:55 PM, Raz said:

Let's get real.  All other players from teams/conferences are simply a feeder-system to the SEC/B10.  Thank you portal.  Winning is expense, the SEC/B10 have the $$$ to fund winning.  The rest don't.  Only these two mega-heavy-weight conferences are compelling enough to feel like the NFL.  And matter and thus capture interest among college football fans from all corners in the USA.   Only in the SEC/B10, every week, the top teams compete.   Who you gonna watch (a pay $$$$)?  Not the MWC.  

Hate to be so brutal but this obvious truth is needed here.

Much of the Big 10 is unwatchable unless you have a tie to the program, though admittedly it’s better now than it was before the PAC additions.  The SEC has several patsies a year, it’s not all at such an unattainable level.  Other p5 programs that invest right will fit right in.

 There is too much talent in football to have enough snaps for them all in the sec/big 10.  

[---I GREEN INFECTION I---]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:01 AM, utenation said:

Yes.
 

I got in trouble for pleading over and over to local lawmakers that a 40 foot high wall must be built between Provo and SL county with armed guards at the toll gate. 
 

The issue was I-15 getting slowed down to a stop affecting out of state commerce and getting to the West Coast. 
 

I did get 30 million signatures though. So not a total loss. 

 

How did I find one of the few bars in Provo after a Thursday Night ESPN CSU @ YBU game?

In the back of a police car.  Local PD going the extra mile.

Ended up drinking w/David Anderson's Mom, Uncle & Cousin, kids of Profs & non-US athletes.

 

[NorCalCoug]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:38 PM, Spaztecs said:

The Big12 has been bleeding its best properties for decades. The AAC/Pac grab was a decent lifeboat.

I've got to wonder, if they are having buyers remorse on the quick buy of the AAC trio ? WVU benefited with Cincy nearby. That's all 

Why would they?  Those additions along with BYU are what stabilized the conference and set the stage for the position they find themselves in today.  

[jdgaucho]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:56 AM, NorCalCoug said:

Why would they?  Those additions along with BYU are what stabilized the conference and set the stage for the position they find themselves in today.  

 

It'll help having A presence in Florida. If Central Florida is even mediocre that's a bonus.

[Brew_Poke]

On 2/9/2024 at 11:15 AM, Billings said:

Bummer Paywall.  Makes sense though.  They are using the leverage as a P5 voting member to try to force an invite to a P4.  They are blocking the CFP move to go to the 5+7 model

https://archive.is/t51m5

[RebelAlliance]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:15 PM, Billings said:

Bummer Paywall.  Makes sense though.  They are using the leverage as a P5 voting member to try to force an invite to a P4.  They are blocking the CFP move to go to the 5+7 model

Good luck phVcking with the B1G and the SEC on this.  Great way to end up being discovered in a dumpster with your severed testicles crammed into your mouth.

[Destiny Dutch]

On 2/10/2024 at 9:56 AM, NorCalCoug said:

Why would they?  Those additions along with BYU are what stabilized the conference and set the stage for the position they find themselves in today.  

Multiple Timezone conferences are the present and future. The B1G's West Coast additions knocked down the door of the national conference model. The Big 12 has come out of realignment with a legit national footprint as well. The ACC's coast-to-coast national model has real problems because it's too lopsided to the East.

Meanwhile the SEC has an opportunity to successfully go against the grain and refuse to expand, and that may net their members even more money if the B1G keeps taking on more freight. There is definitely a cap on how big conferences can get and still make more money for their members. If the B1G gets paid more (for FSU & ???), the SEC can conceivably still ask for comparable money without expanding. Will they get it? It's conceivable.

I believe the SEC has no reason or appetite to expand but the B1G and Big 12 are positioned to expand because their models are different. Those conferences still have "room" to fill out their national identities. The ACC is in no position to expand because they are already reactive to the other 2 P4s. As such the ACC is the pool that will feed those other two.

Back to NorCalCougs post: 

The Big 12 has done everything right. The four they added (BYU, Cincinnati, UCF, Houston) transformed their Central-Midwest identity to a legitimately more national group. When the Big 12 jumped the line and re-signed with ESPN and Fox it validated those moves (in much the same way the Rutgers/MD moves were validated financially in the B1G) and set the table for the 2nd expansion: to fill in the footprint (between BYU and the Central schools) with Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Utah. 

None of that happens without the structure the Big 12 built with it's first expansion wave.

What is scary for ACC fans is the B1G and Big 12 are ideally positioned to unleash the 1-2 punch they gave the Pac 12; and their national frameworks almost demands that they pick which teams they want to finish their media models.

[NorCalCoug]

On 2/7/2024 at 2:13 PM, AztecSU said:

Now that the MW is a power conference in basketball, who are we likely adding in the future?

OSU/WSU/ZAGS/GAELS/DONS? Or do we avoid small private schools altogether? 

The MWC is not a power conference in basketball.   

[SteedLaw]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:12 AM, NorCalCoug said:

The MWC is not a power conference in basketball.   

It is easily in the top 4 to 6...define what is not a "power conference" in BB. (Not defending him, though, as it is a silly statement. Just saying it is easily one of the "better conferences" for BB.)

 

[SteedLaw]

On 2/9/2024 at 10:05 PM, Headbutt said:

How long since UTEP brought the Sun Bowl?  It's been a low level ACC/Pac12 matchup for better than a decade now.  We've all got our preferences, and I respect others opinions.  However, my preference is hell no to UTEP and I don't see any real value in GCU or even Gonzaga.

You know what they say about "birds of a feather"...

My take is that the MWC appears to be becoming part of the new PAC/MWC once Washington State and Oregon State join.

Look, it is University Presidents (i.e., academics/researchers/administrators) who are making these decisions. And, for most of these institutions, research and academics IS the game -- athletics is really just a small sideshow by comparison in total revenue, budget and expenditure dollars anyway.

I see no way that non-research or low research schools like GCU and Gonzaga would get an invite to the new PAC/MWC -- regardless of how good their basketball programs are. Colorado State is pushing half a billion a year in research now with Utah State and New Mexico not far behind. (And, this says nothing about wholly-owned research subsidiaries or joint venture subsidiaries.) Even Boise State (i.e., currently the lowest in the conference in research) is now a Carnegie R2 with a research and expenditure budget creeping up to being on par with their athletics budget -- and they are currently the lowest in research in the conference.

WSU and OSU would fit right at home here with us. In fact, they would be 2nd (Washington State) and 5th (Oregon State) place in overall R&D revenue, budgets and expenditures -- (i.e., Colorado State would still be 1st, Utah State would be 3rd, New Mexico would be 4th and Hawaii would be 6th). GCU and Gonzaga? They would not even make this list and would be far below even Boise State. Unlike Oregon State and Washington State, UTEP would be above Boise State, but would still be at the near bottom of the conference -- so I don't think that would at all be exciting to these University presidents. Again...birds of a feather and I just don't see it.

I know MANY on these forums would disagree -- but I still see schools like Texas State and UTSA being far more likely candidates given their Carnegie R1 research statuses. Even the two Montana Schools and U. Idaho would be far more likely adds to the conference than schools like Gonzaga, UTEP, and GCU. 

 

Just my two cents anyway...

Source: https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=rankingBySource&ds=herd

[Headbutt]

There will be one primary western conference in 2-3 years.  Not a power conference, but likely a key player and leader among the non semi pro conferences.  That will be the Pac/MWC conglomerate.  Don't just invite folks because they're hot today and it feels right.  I don't think anybody needs to be invited to be honest, but academics, culture, regionality all need to be taken into account if we do.  Yeah, California and Nevada have a much different culture than the rest of the conference, but also a lot in common and generally a lot of history.  Any additions need to help bridge some of the differences, not exacerbate them by adding an entirely different culture and lowering academic standards.

[SteedLaw]

On 2/11/2024 at 2:51 PM, Headbutt said:

There will be one primary western conference in 2-3 years.  Not a power conference, but likely a key player and leader among the non semi pro conferences.  That will be the Pac/MWC conglomerate.  Don't just invite folks because they're hot today and it feels right.  I don't think anybody needs to be invited to be honest, but academics, culture, regionality all need to be taken into account if we do.  Yeah, California and Nevada have a much different culture than the rest of the conference, but also a lot in common and generally a lot of history.  Any additions need to help bridge some of the differences, not exacerbate them by adding an entirely different culture and lowering academic standards.

Agreed. Though, give it 10 years and it will be a power conference. It will take time, but it will get there. 

People want to watch regional rivalries still. And, the West is growing too fast as a whole. 
 
Add Oregon State, add Washington State, and watch it grow. These Universities are in it for the long-game anyway. 
 

 

[RSF]

On 2/11/2024 at 3:20 PM, SteedLaw said:

It is easily in the top 4 to 6...define what is not a "power conference" in BB. (Not defending him, though, as it is a silly statement. Just saying it is easily one of the "better conferences" for BB.)

 

Anybody but the Big 5 + the Big East is not a power conference.

[Headbutt]

On 2/11/2024 at 7:38 PM, RSF said:

Anybody but the Big 5 + the Big East is not a power conference.

In basketball?  Are you referring to $$ or performance?

[RSF]

On 2/11/2024 at 8:55 PM, Headbutt said:

In basketball?  Are you referring to $$ or performance?

Both.

[Did I hear a WOOSH?]

The Massey Composite rankings have the MWC rated as the 7th best conference this season, most closely aligned with the A10 conference (8th).  That is a very good spot.  The PAC is on an island in 6th place, but the majority of them are leaving for the runaway top two conferences in the XII and BIG, respectively.

Obviously there’s some room for a little upward mobility once the PAC disappears completely.  Some things that really need to happen that would help is overall better/more consistent performance in March*, improving the OOC schedules with more power conference schools, getting involved more out east in the form of early season tournaments/invitationals, and alliances if possible.  I would expand the conference in basketball also if possible.  Think Gonzaga is falling off but if you can grab them and St. Mary’s or GCU you go for it.  

*SDSU did a great job last year and would’ve done well Covid year, but I’m talking down the line, need more than one school making out of the round of 64 for example, have consistent performers in the NIT, etc.  Perception to most bball eyes is that SDSU was a Cinderella team, not someone expected to perform well.  They have a chance to perhaps change that perception a bit this year.  Really need a strong performance from two teams in March this year.

[Spaztecs]

On 2/11/2024 at 2:20 PM, SteedLaw said:

It is easily in the top 4 to 6...define what is not a "power conference" in BB. (Not defending him, though, as it is a silly statement. Just saying it is easily one of the "better conferences" for BB.)

 

Tell us how good the MW is after the first round NCAAT  games.