Conference Realignment thread

[818SUDSFan]

On 1/11/2024 at 12:29 PM, HR_Poke said:

It's two separate agreements.  One between the PAC2 and MWC and one between the MWC and member institution.  A scheduling agreement between two conferences isn't going to supersede the bylaws and contract between a school and the conference it is a member of. 

I'll just say this appears to be yet another example of the mismanagement of THE Mountain West Conference.

Until now, I thought Gloria Nevarez was better than this. One, this agreement should have been divulged more than a month ago. The fact it required the media to make a public documents request to hear about it smacks of covert operations. Second, its ambiguity also smacks of covert operations. I hope to hell the MWC now gets sufficient backlash that Nevarez is forced to explain exactly how much members departing to the Pac will be on the hook for over the two years of this new agreement.

[HR_Poke]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:36 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

I'll just say this appears to be yet another example of the mismanagement of THE Mountain West Conference.

Until now, I thought Gloria Nevarez was better than this. One, this agreement should have been divulged more than a month ago. The fact it required the media to make a public documents request to hear about it smacks of covert operations. Second, its ambiguity also smacks of covert operations. I hope to hell the MWC now gets sufficient backlash that Nevarez is forced to explain exactly how much members departing to the Pac will be on the hook for over the two years of this new agreement.

how do you know they aren't already aware?  The presidents would have signed this or agreed to it in a meeting.  The general public didn't know and frankly who cares?  Joe Schmoe small time booster on a message board doesn't need to know exactly how much money his school needs to pony up to leave the conference. 

[Headbutt]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:36 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

I'll just say this appears to be yet another example of the mismanagement of THE Mountain West Conference.

Until now, I thought Gloria Nevarez was better than this. One, this agreement should have been divulged more than a month ago. The fact it required the media to make a public documents request to hear about it smacks of covert operations. Second, its ambiguity also smacks of covert operations. I hope to hell the MWC now gets sufficient backlash that Nevarez is forced to explain exactly how much members departing to the Pac will be on the hook for over the two years of this new agreement.

None of this effects the MWC exit fee, which is expected to increase BTW.

[818SUDSFan]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:40 PM, Headbutt said:

None of this effects the MWC exit fee, which is expected to increase BTW.

You mean increase the exit fee to the point it clearly wasn't intended to make the conference whole for damages caused by a school's departure but rather meant to punish them for having the temerity to want to leave?

[Wyobraska]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:36 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

I'll just say this appears to be yet another example of the mismanagement of THE Mountain West Conference.

Until now, I thought Gloria Nevarez was better than this. One, this agreement should have been divulged more than a month ago. The fact it required the media to make a public documents request to hear about it smacks of covert operations. Second, its ambiguity also smacks of covert operations. I hope to hell the MWC now gets sufficient backlash that Nevarez is forced to explain exactly how much members departing to the Pac will be on the hook for over the two years of this new agreement.

I realize you want SDSU out of the MW so you are viewing this through that lense, however, Gloria has done well in this process.  

The $5.5M from the PAC protects the conference. I doubt very many people care that it wasn't included in press releases.  Presidents and ADs have to have known about that and if they didn't then they should be fired by their universities. 

Like @HR_Poke mentioned, this agreement was about the scheduling agreement with the PAC.  Universities already know what their exit fees are due to conference by-laws.  

There is nothing nefarious going on here and I don't see why anyone would be upset with Gloria for protecting the conference 

[HR_Poke]

On 1/11/2024 at 2:51 PM, Wyobraska said:

I realize you want SDSU out of the MW so you are viewing this through that lense, however, Gloria has done well in this process.  

The $5.5M from the PAC protects the conference. I doubt very many people care that it wasn't included in press releases.  Presidents and ADs have to have known about that and if they didn't then they should be fired by their universities. 

Like @HR_Poke mentioned, this agreement was about the scheduling agreement with the PAC.  Universities already know what their exit fees are due to conference by-laws.  

There is nothing nefarious going on here and I don't see why anyone would be upset with Gloria for protecting the conference 

This!

Her job is to protect the conference, not make it easy for sdsu to bail.

[Headbutt]

On 1/11/2024 at 2:45 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

You mean increase the exit fee to the point it clearly wasn't intended to make the conference whole for damages caused by a school's departure but rather meant to punish them for having the temerity to want to leave?

The exit fee is 3X the conference payout.  The conference payout will increase with a new TV deal.  So, yes, it's going to go up, unless the board changes the policy.

[Someone Else]

2 hours ago, 818SUDSFan said:

I don't read it as $17M each. I read it as now $5.5M each. Ultimately, if the Pac-2 takes 6 current MWC members, the remaining 6 MWC members would receive $100M ($67M + $33M) to revamp their conference. Seems quite fair to me.

No question we are reading it differently. We are on the same page on the part A section but not on the part B section.

To me the 5.5m has nothing to do with schools who are currently in the MWC... that fee is for OSU & WSU to pay if they leave the P12 for some new conference (a conference which is not a P5/4 or the MWC). There is no mention about what a current member of the MWC would have to pay as an exist fee from the MWC since this agreement has nothing to do with that. 

I don't see any change to the amount (3x media revenue) a school like SDSU would have to pay if they leave... that isn't referenced as far as I can see.

I could be wrong of course.

 

[Headbutt]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:44 PM, Someone Else said:

No question we are reading it differently. We are on the same page on the part A section but not on the part B section.

To me the 5.5m has nothing to do with schools who are currently in the MWC... that fee is for OSU & WSU to pay if they leave the P12 for some new conference (a conference which is not a P5/4 or the MWC). There is no mention about what a current member of the MWC would have to pay as an exist fee from the MWC since this agreement has nothing to do with that. 

I don't see any change to the amount (3x media revenue) a school like SDSU would have to pay if they leave... that isn't referenced as far as I can see.

I could be wrong of course.

 

One tiny correction.  It's not 3X media revenue.  It's 3X total conference per team distribution.  That includes NCAA BB credits, etc.  Like I said, tiny.

[Someone Else]

Again I could be wrong but the fact that there is an ' OR' between A and B leads me to believe that if the two P12 members disband the P12 and create some other conference they will only owe 5.5 mil to the MWC.  So it's almost pushing them to disband the P12 and create a new conference if they want to take only some of the MWC teams. 

 

Maybe I'm reading that incorrectly though.... wouldn't be the first time. lol

[Headbutt]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:53 PM, Someone Else said:

Again I could be wrong but the fact that there is an ' OR' between A and B leads me to believe that if the two P12 members disband the P12 and create some other conference they will only owe 5.5 mil to the MWC.  So it's almost pushing them to disband the P12 and create a new conference if they want to take only some of the MWC teams. 

 

Maybe I'm reading that incorrectly though.... wouldn't be the first time. lol

I read it the same way in section 7.03 of the document.

Section 7.03 Termination. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement,
if any Pac-12 Member Institution joins, or announces that it will join, a conference other than
MWC prior to the expiration or termination of this Agreement pursuant to Article IV, this
Agreement shall automatically terminate and be of no further force or effect with respect to the
departing Pac-12 Member Institution on the first August 1 to occur thereafter; provided, however,
that such Pac-12 Party’s covenants, agreements and obligations that survive termination of this
Agreement (including in respect of the Departure Fee, if triggered) shall survive in accordance
with their respective terms.

It appears that the Pac teams can join another conference and void the agreement other than paying the $5.5 million.

[utgrizfan]

On 1/11/2024 at 4:15 PM, Headbutt said:

I read it the same way in section 7.03 of the document.

Section 7.03 Termination. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement,
if any Pac-12 Member Institution joins, or announces that it will join, a conference other than
MWC prior to the expiration or termination of this Agreement pursuant to Article IV, this
Agreement shall automatically terminate and be of no further force or effect with respect to the
departing Pac-12 Member Institution on the first August 1 to occur thereafter; provided, however,
that such Pac-12 Party’s covenants, agreements and obligations that survive termination of this
Agreement (including in respect of the Departure Fee, if triggered) shall survive in accordance
with their respective terms.

It appears that the Pac teams can join another conference and void the agreement other than paying the $5.5 million.

The PAC2 waiting for what happens with the ACC:

[Headbutt]

On 1/11/2024 at 4:19 PM, utgrizfan said:

The PAC2 waiting for what happens with the ACC:

The only way the Pac2 are moving to another conference besides the MWC is to make their own not named the Pac.  I don't think they'll do that to save $11 million.

[NorNevLifer]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:51 PM, Headbutt said:

The only way the Pac2 are moving to another conference besides the MWC is to make their own not named the Pac.  I don't think they'll do that to save $11 million.

Especially since that would forfeit all of the NCAA tourney credits to the schools that earned it for the PAC.

[Headbutt]

The whole thing reads like an unofficial but binding agreement to merge after the '25-'26 season to me.  I think that's a foregone conclusion now, but still playing the legal games to keep the 10 that left from having a hand in the process.  Also, the Pac2 leaving options open for a little while to see how CFB shakes out before then.  Things could break any direction, but it at least appears like an eventual done deal.

[Someone Else]

44 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

The whole thing reads like an unofficial but binding agreement to merge after the '25-'26 season to me.  I think that's a foregone conclusion now, but still playing the legal games to keep the 10 that left from having a hand in the process.  Also, the Pac2 leaving options open for a little while to see how CFB shakes out before then.  Things could break any direction, but it at least appears like an eventual done deal.

I am not reading it the same way... I will still be very surprised if there is a full merger between the P2 and the entire MWC.  To me there are way too many moving parts to know.

[Headbutt]

On 1/11/2024 at 6:52 PM, Someone Else said:

I am not reading it the same way... I will still be very surprised if there is a full merger between the P2 and the entire MWC.  To me there are way too many moving parts to know.

Like I said, we're putting one scenario against the field.  The field always has the advantage statistically, so that's a solid bet.  However, this deck appears to be stacked.

It's a financial hurt for the Pac to take anything but the entire MWC.  Less of a hurt if they only take SDSU, for instance, but that gains them nothing.  It'll take nine MWC teams to void that deal, and there ain't nine that will make the leap. The Pac has pretty much been told that they are no longer welcome at the grown up table for the CFP.  The OSU prez has made it clear that they want to minimize travel for their Oly's (which discounts the AAC).  If the Big12 needed them they'd be there.  If the AAC wanted to pay them to show up, they wouldn't be charging admission to SMU.

If the bet is a Pac/MWC merger vs any other possibility, then the smart money is on any other possibility, obviously.  However, it's going to take 4 years to do something other than merge with money that isn't currently (or expected) on the table.  I'd call that a stacked deck and go with the merger option.

[818SUDSFan]

On 1/11/2024 at 5:06 PM, Headbutt said:

The whole thing reads reeks like an unofficial but binding agreement to merge after the '25-'26 season

Fixed for accuracy

[Headbutt]

On 1/11/2024 at 9:18 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

Fixed for accuracy

My bad.  I forgot to include the part where SDSU should go to the B1G.

Better now?

[Brew_Poke]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:36 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

I'll just say this appears to be yet another example of the mismanagement of THE Mountain West Conference.

Until now, I thought Gloria Nevarez was better than this. One, this agreement should have been divulged more than a month ago. The fact it required the media to make a public documents request to hear about it smacks of covert operations. Second, its ambiguity also smacks of covert operations. I hope to hell the MWC now gets sufficient backlash that Nevarez is forced to explain exactly how much members departing to the Pac will be on the hook for over the two years of this new agreement.

Sure, sure...it makes it harder for your thirsty school to vaingloriously quest for more money and status, must be "covert operations".