Conference Realignment thread

[utenation]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:09 AM, WAC_FAN said:

Men's Basketball is a required sport to be a conference--you must sponsor it if you're going to be a D1 conference.  They may not get an auto-bid due to the number of teams, but it's like football to where they can't be just an affiliate member of another conference and not sponsor it.  They need a scheduling alliance.

Maybe the 2 year NCAA grace period overrides the requirement?

 

"They are using a two-year NCAA grace period. Conferences falling below the minimum eight members are allowed two years to return to the eight-member mark before they are no longer recognized as a conference."

[Spazdog]

I wish USU is not included.  They are hated on this board, you know.

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:18 AM, SharkTanked said:

Still seems weird. Ostensibly, it seems WSU and OSU would be paying at least a portion of any MWC team's exit fee in the form of PAC assets. I guess it ensures the pound of flesh is delivered though.

Exactly.  There are folks who keep claiming that no school leaving the MWC would ever end up owing the full $17 million exit fee, and despite the hard stance on the exit fee that the conference took against SDSU in July, Canzano has quoted Nevarez as saying exit fees are typically subject to negotiation.  My guess is that the MWC wants WSU and OSU to be subject to an ironclad poaching penalty that won’t be negotiable.

[SharkTanked]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:25 AM, godogsgo said:

So basically giving away the milk without buying the cow…

The cow is "lease to own."

[WAC_FAN]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:25 PM, godogsgo said:

So basically giving away the milk without buying the cow…

The agreement, expected to include a lucrative financial package for Mountain West members, is likely to feature a long-term commitment to the conference with an intent at a full merger beyond this two-year cycle. Part of the agreement includes a financial penalty that can be levied upon Oregon State and Washington State if the two programs attempt to acquire only a portion of MWC schools in the future.

[Beaver-Poke]

This makes sense but it should be an 8+1. No reason for a 12-team league to only play seven of a possible 11 conference rivals in a 12-game schedule. OOC scheduling is tough for most MWC schools. Play 8 (or 9) conference games plus either OSU and WSU and scheduling becomes much easier. I'd rather watch a league game than Wofford or UC Davis or Northern Colorado. 

[ShoichiKUN808]

full merger being in the plans, without penalties unless OS/WS try to pull teams away. Nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

Will be interesting to see how schedules adjust.

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:57 AM, HawaiiMongoose said:

The fact that OSU and WSU aren’t seeking affiliate memberships in the MWC for non-football sports makes no sense to me.  Why opt to split football and basketball affiliations?  I don’t see how that would benefit them financially or help them in their effort to keep the Pac alive.

Of course side agreements would make sense for niche sports the MWC doesn’t sponsor, but there are only a handful of those.

The only reason I can think of is that they might prefer the WCC for non-football sports because travel would be the cheapest in that conference.  OSU is a natural travel partner for Portland, and WSU is a natural travel partner for Gonzga, and all of their competitions would be in the Pacific time zone.  But it’s not a good long-term play unless the two schools are considering doing a reverse-merger of the Pac with the WCC instead of the MWC… which makes no sense because that would cause the Pac to lose its status as an FBS conference.

 

After thinking this through a little more, I can see why OSU and WSU might prefer to park non-football sports in the WCC or Big West instead of the MWC for the next two years. It will not only minimize travel expense while they continue to negotiate with the MWC over the terms of a full Pac-MWC merger, but will also give the MWC a little less leverage in negotiating those terms.  More specifically, the MWC won’t be in a position to threaten taking away a home for OSU’s and WSU’s non-football sports as a way of squeezing more out of the merger deal.

[SharkTanked]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:54 AM, ShoichiKUN808 said:

full merger being in the plans without penalties if OS/WS try to pull teams away. Nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

Will be interesting to see how schedules adjust.

I am kinda surprised the MWC insisted on that penalty, tbh. They are more closely aligned (maybe even unified?) than I previously gave them credit for. I also think Gloria had a lot to do with it. It is obvious she knows they have the PAC 2 over a barrel and has convinced the MWC leadership of that. I wouldn't go up against her in a game of chicken.

[WAC_FAN]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:27 PM, HawaiiMongoose said:

Exactly.  There are folks who keep claiming that no school leaving the MWC would ever end up owing the full $17 million exit fee, and despite the hard stance on the exit fee that the conference took against SDSU in July, Canzano has quoted Nevarez as saying exit fees are typically subject to negotiation.  My guess is that the MWC wants WSU and OSU to be subject to an ironclad poaching penalty that won’t be negotiable.

It also potentially tries to block the 'invite enough members to disband the conference' plan.

[SharkTanked]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:58 AM, HawaiiMongoose said:

After thinking this through a little more, I can see why OSU and WSU might prefer to park non-football sports in the WCC or Big West instead of the MWC for the next two years. It will not only minimize travel expense while they continue to negotiate with the MWC over the terms of a full Pac-MWC merger, but will also give the MWC a little less leverage in negotiating those terms.  More specifically, the MWC won’t be in a position to threaten taking away a home for OSU’s and WSU’s non-football sports as a way of squeezing more out of the merger deal.

Could be. I am stronger on the money reason. I think they are looking for the cheapest way to take care of the situation while the financials are still so unknown (though with the ruling, things are clearer than before). Also might explain their dalliance with the Sun Belt for a scheduling agreement. I am not sure it has to do with MWC negotiations, but it could.

[Nickp1991]

 PAC 2 options are very limited, with the MWC TV deal coming up the MWC is the best option and in the best position

[TheTedfordTrain]

New PAC-10

OSU

WSU

BOISE 

UNLV

FRESNO

CSU

SDSU

Wyoming 

AFA 

USU

 

Any other configuration doesn’t make much sense. Time to drop the leeches. 

[818SUDSFan]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:54 AM, Spaztecs said:

This is good news for all MW Schools. There are financial penalties if OS-WSU try to cherry pick MW Schools for the new Pac. It's an all or nothing deal on merger matters.

 

Four Schools, Boise, Fresno, Sparty, and SUDS will play both Pac Schools as they already have one game scheduled in the next two years.

SDSU has already cancelled/rescheduled their game against Portland State to add OSU to their schedule next year. They play Cal, OSU, and Wazzu OOC next year.

Not only is that not how I interpret it, when JD Wicker was asked at his presser yesterday afternoon what he had heard about the recent MWC-P2 talks, he said this: "feels more like a scheduling alliance at this point."

[AztecSU]

Why don't they just merge now? It seems like they are still hoping to join the B12.

[AztecSU]

Seems like the MW wouldn't agree to a scheduling alliance without additional penalties beyond exit fees if WSU/OSU decided to poach schools. It doesn't mean they are joining the MW in two seasons. More like the PAC2 want a chance to reevaluate their options in 2 seasons...just in case. 

[Chalsean]

On 11/16/2023 at 1:12 PM, AztecSU said:

Seems like the MW wouldn't agree to a scheduling alliance without additional penalties beyond exit fees if WSU/OSU decided to poach schools. It doesn't mean they are joining the MW in two seasons. More like the PAC2 want a chance to reevaluate their options in 2 seasons...just in case. 

That's what I read as well.

[SangerBulldog]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:12 PM, AztecSU said:

It doesn't mean they are joining the MW in two seasons. More like the PAC2 want a chance to reevaluate their options in 2 seasons...just in case. 

I see no problem with that, it's a pretty cutthroat business right now in college athletics. At least in the mean time we both benefit somewhat.

[agswin]

I am just not sure I see or agree with the desire or urgency to kick out any current MWC programs.

I am fully supportive if the MWC wants to establish some attendance standards and facility size minimums with some time granted to the institutions to work on meeting those standards.

I am also fully in favor of establishing minimums and upping the ante MWC revenue expectations.

We all need to be progressing if the league is going to progress.  

[agswin]

I am also OK if the PAC2 want to reserve their right to review the landscape before they jump.  They basically can't jump for several years anyway, right?

The truth is that the US Map and Collegiate Athletic Conference alignments are not going to change much in two years.  But if it makes the PAC2 feel better, sure.  Why not? 

Perhaps as the old PAC history fades away a bit, and as the cold reality of the new PAC2 comes a bit more into clear view, the PAC2 will begin to realize that their 5#!+ does not really smell a lot better than many of the MWC programs.

I am not holding my breath for them to come to that realization all on their own, but I think that day is coming.