Conference Realignment thread

[Headbutt]

On 9/23/2023 at 11:30 AM, SteedLaw said:

I get it, man. If he went after my school/team, I would have done the same. 

And for the record, I would really not be interested in any conference for my Aggies that did not include the Rainbow Warriors. A lot of talking heads are really overly-discounting and underestimating what Hawaii brings to the table here. It is a fantastic school (both a public land-grant and a flagship) with a great venue and fans. They also bring a unique culture, flavor and even a bit of an international audience to the league. 

Plus, their logo, helmets and uniforms are routinely some of the coolest in FBS. Anyone saying they don’t bring enough to the table is talking crazy…so I get it. 

Every time a hypothetical chopping block comes up Hawaii will always top the list with most of "look at me, I don't know what I'm talking about" crowd because of the travel.  Even some serious folks that do know what they're talking about put them at the top of the list, because of the travel.  It's not just cost, but the wear and tear on SA's.  They are a much easier target right now due to their recent struggles in finding the right coach, TV contract, and playing in a practice stadium.  CFB is cyclical, and if the state ever gets behind the school Hawaii will be back.

I'm not championing getting rid of Hawaii, just pointing out that they do bring unique challenges to the conference (despite the travel subs and 13th game) making them an easy target for the chopping block for observers outside of the conference.

[renoskier]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:56 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

Hawaii is a Big West Conference team. As an affiliate member in ONE sport, it has no voting rights in the MWC. It adds absolutely nothing for football, other than marginally aiding in scheduling. 

wrong, it's a relatively large market and a good recruiting ground.

as a football only member the travel is negligible and completely overshadowed by the positive scheduling possibilities.

[OzzyOzz]

Mmm..Hawaii does belong somewhere, there is a higher % of people actively participating in sports&athletics there than elsewhere..and the University itself is really nice. They have an extremely underrated law school, in international affairs a law degree from Hawaii puts you in such a unique position (military law, maritime law, usa-asian international relations..it can be leveraged just as advantageously as an ivy league qualification by the right person). They have nice and clean facilities and their scientific research efforts are unique to them because of their geography. It is a university that can never die.

They also were one of the "safest campuses in America" when I was there, and that's a shout out to not just them lol but 99.99999% mostly them lol..actually maybe 105% them lol hqha

I'm not so nice about other aspects of their university however but overall their value is more solid than most any university in America for reasons that people don't really ever consider. I'd recommend that university over many for sure..

[Wyobraska]

I hope to share a conference with Hawaii for as long as there is college football.

[OzzyOzz]

On 9/23/2023 at 11:56 AM, Wyobraska said:

I hope to share a conference with Hawaii for as long as there is college football.

Speaking of another good university, the University is Wyoming would be a dream university for me to have gone to. The geology program there must be something else..

The Universities that don't make sense to me are the City universities. I mean, aren't their charters supposed to be more considerate of their specific localities? They don't have much of a role to play in State politics, none at the federal level, and aren't city jurisdictions mostly concentrated on proper traffic code enforcement? I mean, what business does San Diego have playing the WHOLE state of Washington. The whole state? I mean Pullman is tough enough for many, add in East and West and along the Gorge? 1 San Diego? 

I mean, San Diego should be concerned about Seattle University and Portland State...but idk idk

Don't get me wrong..the first universities were in effect city council universities...there's no shame in it. It's a good thing. I just don't see what their value is in state and federal affairs if not just to train a workforce and provide social commentary, which is what city colleges are meant for..

Commentary and institutional criticism are very critical functions in society. It is an admirable role they play. 

[818SUDSFan]

On 9/21/2023 at 2:59 PM, HR_Poke said:

So you are hanging your superiority hat on a supposed invitation as a desparation backfiller for a dissolving conference?

In part. Just what are you guys hanging your 10-gallon monstrosity on?

[818SUDSFan]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:36 PM, Nevada Convert said:

How many times has a school left their conference without a power invite thinking they had one and they didn’t, and then have to beg their ex-slumlord Gloria to let them return…..…and then once back in tell everyone how badass they still are? And then being so badass, their butts in seats count is right there with SJSU? Now THAT is a power school, dammit.

That was definitely an embarrassment I'll admit.

[SteedLaw]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:18 PM, OzzyOzz said:

Speaking of another good university, the University is Wyoming would be a dream university for me to have gone to. The geography program there must be something else..

The University's that don't make sense to me are the City universities. I mean, aren't their charters supposed to be more considerate of their specific localities? They don't have much of a role to play in State politics, none at the federal level, and aren't city jurisdictions mostly concentrated on proper traffic code enforcement? I mean, what business does San Diego have playing the WHOLE state of Washington. The whole state? I mean Pullman is tough enough for many, add in East and West and along the Gorge? 1 San Diego? 

I mean, San Diego should be concerned about Seattle University and Portland State...but idk idk

Don't get me wrong..the first universities were in effect city council universities...there's no shame in it. It's a good thing. I just don't see what their value is in state and federal affairs if not just to train a workforce and provide social commentary, which is what city colleges are meant for..

Commentators and institutional criticism is a very critical function in society. It is an admirable role they play. 

They only start this way. After a time, the universities with more local charters (Boise State, San Jose State, etc.) can also take on a life of their own (USC, Boston College, etc.) despite not being a state flagship or a land-grant. This does not always happen, but it obviously can happen.

[818SUDSFan]

On 9/22/2023 at 6:40 AM, The Brent Vigen Diet said:

Are fans of the most “valuable” programs for it? UNLV CSU and even SDSU might not be in the top tier. I personally am all for it. I am sick of seeing my team out perform schools with bigger budgets in football and basketball and still get referred to as a  “bottom feeder.” 

Seems as though most SDSU fans think it was some merit. However, on the pre-game radio show last night, JD Wicker was asked his opinion and he said SDSU's administration is "fine with the way things are now, with San Diego State winning more championships than any other school in the conference." No way does President de la Torre have sufficient knowledge about sports to be able to make a valid analysis of such an idea so I'm sure Wicker was speaking for himself. IOW, I'm pretty sure he knows he effed up badly in how he handled negotiations with the Pac-10 (probably believed every lie Kliavkoff told him) and that he effed up at least as badly in extending Brady Hoke's contract through the 2026 season. So to save his own job, it's in Wicker's best interest to oppose any chance of Hoke coaching the Aztecs to relegation rather than merely bowl ineligibility.

[818SUDSFan]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:22 PM, Brew_Poke said:

You value is demonstrated by the conference you are in.  If you had received any "offer" (which you haven't), your administration would've fallen all over themselves to have accepted it.  You've received the same amount of offers as any one else here, zero.  Wake up, dude.

Maybe it's you that needs to wake up. It's a fact that SDSU was invited to the Big East for football and when that invitation was made and accepted, the Big East was still a "power" conference.

[Brew_Poke]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:51 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

Maybe it's you that needs to wake up. It's a fact that SDSU was invited to the Big East for football and when that invitation was made and accepted, the Big East was still a "power" conference.

You guys would have had to beg your way back in after the Big East predictably imploded. That shit was hilarious. Literally everyone could see it from a million miles away except you guys. You guys kill me.

[818SUDSFan]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:18 PM, OzzyOzz said:

Speaking of another good university, the University is Wyoming would be a dream university for me to have gone to. The geology program there must be something else..

The Universities that don't make sense to me are the City universities. I mean, aren't their charters supposed to be more considerate of their specific localities? They don't have much of a role to play in State politics, none at the federal level, and aren't city jurisdictions mostly concentrated on proper traffic code enforcement? I mean, what business does San Diego have playing the WHOLE state of Washington. The whole state? I mean Pullman is tough enough for many, add in East and West and along the Gorge? 1 San Diego? 

I mean, San Diego should be concerned about Seattle University and Portland State...but idk idk

Don't get me wrong..the first universities were in effect city council universities...there's no shame in it. It's a good thing. I just don't see what their value is in state and federal affairs if not just to train a workforce and provide social commentary, which is what city colleges are meant for..

Commentary and institutional criticism are very critical functions in society. It is an admirable role they play. 

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or a smart ass or you're simply uninformed but I'll bite my tongue and treat your post as fitting in the latter category.

I don't know what the situation is in your state but most of the California State University campuses began as what were called "normal" schools designed by the state to educate public school teachers. The first two were in San Jose and Los Angeles. The former normal school became San Jose State College and eventually SJSU. The latter normal school eventually became the southern branch of the original University of California system in Los Angeles. I'm not sure about other UC campuses but UCSB was similarly originally a campus of what became the California State Colleges (now CSU) system.

[818SUDSFan]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:08 PM, Brew_Poke said:

You guys would have had to beg your way back in after the Big East predictably imploded. That shit was hilarious. Literally everyone could see it from a million miles away except you guys. You guys kill me.

You Little Dutch Boys BORE me.

[WarriorTyme]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:00 PM, Headbutt said:

Every time a hypothetical chopping block comes up Hawaii will always top the list with most of "look at me, I don't know what I'm talking about" crowd because of the travel.  Even some serious folks that do know what they're talking about put them at the top of the list, because of the travel.  It's not just cost, but the wear and tear on SA's.  They are a much easier target right now due to their recent struggles in finding the right coach, TV contract, and playing in a practice stadium.  CFB is cyclical, and if the state ever gets behind the school Hawaii will be back.

I'm not championing getting rid of Hawaii, just pointing out that they do bring unique challenges to the conference (despite the travel subs and 13th game) making them an easy target for the chopping block for observers outside of the conference.

The wear and tear of the Hawaii student athletes or the opponents students athletes? The Hawaii student athletes actually travel more milage than pretty much everyone else. I don't hear the Hawaii student athletes making excuses for the travel because it's mainly a direct flight to fall asleep on from many west coast airports. Of course, Hawaii student athletes do get to study and play in paradise, as well as visiting opponents to Hawaii get a chance to visit a place they may never get to in their life. 

I admit the coaching choice could have been June Jones with Timmy Chang as the head coach in waiting but the Hawaii AD had his prejudices against June Jones. So, he hired an inexperienced head coach in Timmy Chang and Timmy has made some rookie mistakes. He didn't hire some serious veteran coaches but hired most of his friends from his Hawaii football days. 

While, the Hawaii AD took the wrong path, at the same time the Fresno State AD hired ex head coach Tedford and look how that turned out!

That Hawaii AD had to retire, he was just too unpopular with that not hiring June Jones debacle. Timmy Chang has some learning to do, but his contract states he has to make a bowl game next season (3rd Season) or no contract extension (for a 5th season). With a new Hawaii AD Timmy Chang doesn't have the top cover anymore, so his job is really on the line next season. 

[Headbutt]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:17 PM, WarriorTyme said:

The wear and tear of the Hawaii student athletes or the opponents students athletes? The Hawaii student athletes actually travel more milage than pretty much everyone else. I don't hear the Hawaii student athletes making excuses for the travel because it's mainly a direct flight to fall asleep on from many west coast airports. Of course, Hawaii student athletes do get to study and play in paradise, as well as visiting opponents to Hawaii get a chance to visit a place they may never get to in their life. 

I admit the coaching choice could have been June Jones with Timmy Chang as the head coach in waiting but the Hawaii AD had his prejudices against June Jones. So, he hired an inexperienced head coach in Timmy Chang and Timmy has made some rookie mistakes. He didn't hire some serious veteran coaches but hired most of his friends from his Hawaii football days. 

While, the Hawaii AD took the wrong path, at the same time the Fresno State AD hired ex head coach Tedford and look how that turned out!

That Hawaii AD had to retire, he was just too unpopular with that not hiring June Jones debacle. Timmy Chang has some learning to do, but his contract states he has to make a bowl game next season (3rd Season) or no contract extension (for a 5th season). With a new Hawaii AD Timmy Chang doesn't have the top cover anymore, so his job is really on the line next season. 

I realize that Hawaii athletes travel more than pretty much anyone.  I'm just saying that a lot of AD's feel like it's a pain in the ass to travel to Hawaii.  Our former AD is on record that he would like to see Hawaii out of the conference for just that reason.  I'm not endorsing that opinion, just pointing out that it does exist and that kind of travel is a burden on SA's.  Yes, Hawaii more than anyone.

Chang will need more time.  I think he's got a real future, but he took over a hot mess.

[WarriorTyme]

On 9/23/2023 at 4:27 PM, Headbutt said:

I realize that Hawaii athletes travel more than pretty much anyone.  I'm just saying that a lot of AD's feel like it's a pain in the ass to travel to Hawaii.  Our former AD is on record that he would like to see Hawaii out of the conference for just that reason.  I'm not endorsing that opinion, just pointing out that it does exist and that kind of travel is a burden on SA's.  Yes, Hawaii more than anyone.

Chang will need more time.  I think he's got a real future, but he took over a hot mess.

I know the MWC fans understand the benefit of the travel to Hawaii. I like to think of the year over year of thousands of very young 18y/o to 24 y/o student athletes that come from disadvantage socioeconomic backgrounds that may never get the chance to visit Hawaii ever, period. They play a sport that the school will send them for a few days to visit paradise and experience something special. The competition of sports is important but these very young student athletes may never get to experience Hawaii, the 50th State that can only be travel to by plane or boat.

I feel the way older well-salaried, well-traveled AD's and Coaches are complaining about is a disservice to the not so well-salaried, well-traveled student athletes. The student athletes are young and can bounce back faster from jet lag, than the way older AD's, Coaches and support staff. Believe me I understand those AD's, coaches and support staff, I could bounce back faster when I was 18 to 24 y/o, now I'm an old geezer from those days. I don't bounce back from jet lag or long travel as fast. It's not the student athletes that are complaining about travel to Hawaii, it's the old geezers like me that hold the authority to make decisions for the young adults. 

[OzzyOzz]

On 9/23/2023 at 8:03 AM, sactowndog said:

What they add is visibility into all of Polynesia and on to Asia.  Hawaii is a good add.  They are down currently but are coming back and Aloha Stadium will get rebuilt.   For schools like OSU and WSU who recruit poly kids having Hawaii will matter. 

also remember the other west coast schools will have more east coast games which a 12:00 pm start is 6:00 am Hawaii time.  5:00 am in Samoa.  

WSU recruitment would likely suffer in this scenario, maybe..

Recruitment areas will change because of all this. WSU will need a new rebrand, but it's a chance to shed the small brother school attachement, and the I'm not even going to continue...

Anyway, hello Canada? and where is Alaska? Ice rink? Options for them..

[sactowndog]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:18 PM, OzzyOzz said:

Speaking of another good university, the University is Wyoming would be a dream university for me to have gone to. The geology program there must be something else..

The Universities that don't make sense to me are the City universities. I mean, aren't their charters supposed to be more considerate of their specific localities? They don't have much of a role to play in State politics, none at the federal level, and aren't city jurisdictions mostly concentrated on proper traffic code enforcement? I mean, what business does San Diego have playing the WHOLE state of Washington. The whole state? I mean Pullman is tough enough for many, add in East and West and along the Gorge? 1 San Diego? 

I mean, San Diego should be concerned about Seattle University and Portland State...but idk idk

Don't get me wrong..the first universities were in effect city council universities...there's no shame in it. It's a good thing. I just don't see what their value is in state and federal affairs if not just to train a workforce and provide social commentary, which is what city colleges are meant for..

Commentary and institutional criticism are very critical functions in society. It is an admirable role they play. 

UC Los Angeles didn’t seem to bother you??

[sactowndog]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:27 PM, Headbutt said:

I realize that Hawaii athletes travel more than pretty much anyone.  I'm just saying that a lot of AD's feel like it's a pain in the ass to travel to Hawaii.  Our former AD is on record that he would like to see Hawaii out of the conference for just that reason.  I'm not endorsing that opinion, just pointing out that it does exist and that kind of travel is a burden on SA's.  Yes, Hawaii more than anyone.

Chang will need more time.  I think he's got a real future, but he took over a hot mess.

That’s why we need to expand. Personally I prefer playing Hawaii to you all and your AD can have games in Texas instead.  

[Beaver-Poke]

How many MWC teams actually took advantage of the 13th game in 2022? One? Two? At what point will the state of Hawaii begin to support their state university? They certainly haven't done much of that of over the past couple decades. And when will Aloha Stadium be rebuilt, 2030? Will Hawaii continue to play in a glorified DIII stadium until then?

BTW, I have no idea who this other guy you think I am is. I just joined this forum because it's pretty obvious the Pac-2 will have some sort of relationship with the MWC going forward. 

And I've followed the MWC for more than two decades, and the WAC before that. My wife is a Wyo grad who played in the marching band, we visit Wyoming for a week or two at least once every summer, a kid of a very close family friend played at Wyo, and we just got our Albany County property tax bill in the mail yesterday.