Conference Realignment thread

[Nevada Convert]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:10 PM, clydebeav said:

The Mountain West will not pass on them. Get over yourself. Nevarez isn’t stupid. She’s giving them space to figure out their legal issues. If it all falls apart, they will still have a spot in the Mountain West.

By the way, I was talking in hypotheticals. “Maybe” and “might” mean that I’m not stating facts. You saying the MW is our savior and has all the leverage makes you sound arrogant. 

Some people on this board get real butt hurt and defensive when anyone suggests something that they don’t agree with.

It does sound arrogant, and you don’t just say that. But if the twins are the ones acting like they have total control and are too good for the entire MWC or deserve special unequal revenue, then they need to be put in their place with reality. That’s when making that statement is not arrogant. 

[Headbutt]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:26 PM, Nevada Convert said:

It does sound arrogant, and you don’t just say that. But if the twins are the ones acting like they have total control and are too good for the entire MWC or deserve special unequal revenue, then they need to be put in their place with reality. That’s when making that statement is not arrogant. 

We do not have to offer unequal revenue to O/WSU.  They do not have leverage in joining the MWC.  We'd be idiots to not recognize their financial adjustments though.  We assume that whatever they can get from the Pac assets is theirs, and we get together in some form to move forward.

As an aside, I'd put the odds of the P2 taking 9 MWC teams to dissolve the conference at 0%.  It'll be an all or nothing merger.  Any other approach will get way too ugly.

[Nevada Convert]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:08 PM, Headbutt said:

Would you relax?  You're way out over your skis on this one.  The Pac 2 presidents know the current landscape much, much better than us armchair experts.  They will find a way to combine with the entire MWC, or they will join the B12 (not likely) or they will die.  They know their options, but none of their options matter until the courts say they matter.  Nobody knows the ramifications of playing "dickball" more than the NW twins.  They've just been the victims of it multiple times.  This crap isn't going to happen yesterday.  The departing teams appear to not want it to go easy.  At the end of the day OSU and WSU have to join/create/revive a conference.  They can't do that until they get some affirmation from the courts.  Folks just need to slow down.

Over my skis and relax? LOL. So you trust that the twins have gone from the arrogant PAC-12 mindset starting point, then being abandoned yet still delusional and in denial as of recent times to suddenly having pure clarity of their reality? I sure don’t, because they still think there’s a good chance they can rebuild the PAC with just 6 MWC members. 

You don’t just suddenly get clarity having been in a culture of arrogance for decades, and you don’t just get over being dumped in a couple of months. It’s a process, and it’s clear to me they’re still in that process. Sure, they’re both doing well in FB right now, and that’s not helping their top shelf feelings about themselves. But they will demand extra special treatment in any scenario, and it’s going to be Gloria’s job to kindly and diplomatically explain to them that it can’t happen. 

[Headbutt]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:37 PM, Nevada Convert said:

Over my skis and relax? LOL. So you trust that the twins have gone from the arrogant PAC-12 mindset starting point, then being abandoned yet still delusional and in denial as of recent times to suddenly having pure clarity of their reality? I sure don’t, because they still think there’s a good chance they can rebuild the PAC with just 6 MWC members. 

You don’t just suddenly get clarity having been in a culture of arrogance for decades, and you don’t just get over being dumped in a couple of months. It’s a process, and it’s clear to me they’re still in that process. Sure, they’re both doing well in FB right now, and that’s not helping their top shelf feelings about themselves. But they will demand extra special treatment in any scenario, and it’s going to be Gloria’s job to kindly and diplomatically explain to them that it can’t happen. 

I trust that they are not in any way, shape, or form liking their new reality, but their leadership didn't get their jobs by being stupid.  Their options are very, very limited.  They'll try for extra media shares, and special treatment, but I don't think they'll get it.  Hair isn't in charge anymore.  No way in hell, IMO, they can rebuild the Pac without taking the entire MWC.  Somebody will have to find $102 million, and that conference (regardless of the six who go there) will not be recognized by the CFP.  Take a peek at current events, the CFP is replacing the NCAA.

I'm not saying that they're in love with the new reality, just that they are aware of it.  Barring some sort of acceptance into the B12, they don't really have a choice in the matter.  Every single other option reeks of failure.  Any MWC school choosing to make the jump without the rest of the conference is staring down defeat.  I just don't see it happening, and I sure don't see it succeeding.

[clydebeav]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:26 PM, Nevada Convert said:

It does sound arrogant, and you don’t just say that. But if the twins are the ones acting like they have total control and are too good for the entire MWC or deserve special unequal revenue, then they need to be put in their place with reality. That’s when making that statement is not arrogant. 

If the Pac-12 dissolves, they will join the Mountain West as an equal member. There’s no question about that. I also believe that a reverse merger is the safest, most reasonable and most likely outcome if they gain control of the Pac-12.

At the same time, it sounds like playing as the Pac-2 is something that’s at least being considered. I’m not suggesting that it’s wise (the idea kind of scares the crap out of me), but if they have more than one option, they can at least claim that they are in control of what THEY do.

I understand your point though. They need to be in a conference in the near future and that will require them and the other teams involved to agree to the terms. So I don’t see a scenario where they get to have unequal revenue.

[fanhood]

On 9/22/2023 at 8:58 AM, clydebeav said:

If the Pac-12 dissolves, they will join the Mountain West as an equal member. There’s no question about that. I also believe that a reverse merger is the safest, most reasonable and most likely outcome if they gain control of the Pac-12.

At the same time, it sounds like playing as the Pac-2 is something that’s at least being considered. I’m not suggesting that it’s wise (the idea kind of scares the crap out of me), but if they have more than one option, they can at least claim that they are in control of what THEY do.

I understand your point though. They need to be in a conference in the near future and that will require them and the other teams involved to agree to the terms. So I don’t see a scenario where they get to have unequal revenue.

@clydebeav welcome to the Mountain West/New Pac 12, where we all despise each other. It is great, frankly. It is exactly how conferences are supposed to be. We'll find reasons to hate your program soon enough. 

 

[WarriorTyme]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:58 AM, clydebeav said:

If the Pac-12 dissolves, they will join the Mountain West as an equal member. There’s no question about that. I also believe that a reverse merger is the safest, most reasonable and most likely outcome if they gain control of the Pac-12.

At the same time, it sounds like playing as the Pac-2 is something that’s at least being considered. I’m not suggesting that it’s wise (the idea kind of scares the crap out of me), but if they have more than one option, they can at least claim that they are in control of what THEY do.

I understand your point though. They need to be in a conference in the near future and that will require them and the other teams involved to agree to the terms. So I don’t see a scenario where they get to have unequal revenue.

There will be other proposals released to the public using the media to get discussions and reactions. But we have to remember that it takes votes and agreement among all parties in some capacity. Not everyone will get want they want with the 14 schools, negotiations, arbitrations, collaborations and compromises will have to occur to get a Full Merger between the MWC/PAC. 

I believe the lawsuit will go in favor of WSU/OSU and either a settlement or court ruling in favor of WSU/OSU will happen pretty quickly. If for some reason all hell breaks loose, and the lawsuit doesn't produce the results needed to make the PAC12 solvent. Then we the MWC will welcome WSU/OSU with open arms to the MWC conference.

At least you know that you have a true partner in the MWC during your times of uncertainty. And we look forward to competing against WSU/OSU going forward. 

[Billings]

WSU and OSU joint press conference.   Long

 

 

[The Brent Vigen Diet]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:05 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

Of course the networks would be in favor of it. Just like fans of the most valuable MWC members are in favor of it. Indeed, today a Boise administrator opined on a somewhat different theme that contains the kind of out-of-the-box thinking that all the best G5 football schools should be considering:

https://frontofficesports.com/first-proposal-for-relegation-in-college-football/

Are fans of the most “valuable” programs for it? UNLV CSU and even SDSU might not be in the top tier. I personally am all for it. I am sick of seeing my team out perform schools with bigger budgets in football and basketball and still get referred to as a  “bottom feeder.” 

[SparkysDad]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:44 PM, Nevada Convert said:

LOL. More PAC-12 arrogance. The only conference that needs something is the PAC-2, no one else. The PAC-2 conference will cease to exist if they don’t find 6 more members in 2 years. However, the cfb playoff folks have already stated to the PAC-2 that an 8 member conference won’t have playoff access. 

So to survive, they actually need at least 10 to 12 more members. They should be very concerned. If they play dickball with the MWC, the MWC will pass on them, and they’re 100% fvcked. They are 100% doomed. The MWC is their savior, period. They need to be reminded of that. The MWC has nearly 100% of the leverage. 

I'm glad you're not running this negotiation on behalf of the MWC!

Entities need to be cautious and respectful in these ego-laden big business negotiations. While it is true that Gloria has the hammer, it's not the end all/be all hammer. If the MWC were to play extreme hardball (or "dickball" if you will), the PAC 2 are not "100% f'd" nor "100% doomed"...the Pac 2 could easily reverse merge with the AAC for similar finances and a bit more travel expense, then come hunting for a couple of the top MWC programs, at least partially out of spite due to the MWC's "arrogance". Suddenly the '100% f'd" shoe is on the other foot. You can bet that Aresco would respectfully listen.

I absolutely trust that Gloria won't make the hypothetical mis-step above. She's got her job on merits, skill and smarts...and you (and I) are posting on college football message boards!

[FresnoFacts]

So the Big 12 used what was basically a little piece of candy to help lure Colorado.

"Meanwhile, the Big 12 paid Colorado a $2.5 million signing bonus in late July as it began a new round of expansion, a document obtained from Colorado under an open-records request shows."

 

Long article from open records requests about the deals behind some of the moves for schools including Texas/Oklahoma/Colorado/etc.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/big12/2023/09/22/texas-oklahoma-big-12-sec-espn-role-realignment/70910157007/

[Nevada Convert]

On 9/22/2023 at 8:13 AM, SparkysDad said:

I'm glad you're not running this negotiation on behalf of the MWC!

Entities need to be cautious and respectful in these ego-laden big business negotiations. While it is true that Gloria has the hammer, it's not the end all/be all hammer. If the MWC were to play extreme hardball (or "dickball" if you will), the PAC 2 are not "100% f'd" nor "100% doomed"...the Pac 2 could easily reverse merge with the AAC for similar finances and a bit more travel expense, then come hunting for a couple of the top MWC programs, at least partially out of spite due to the MWC's "arrogance". Suddenly the '100% f'd" shoe is on the other foot. You can bet that Aresco would respectfully listen.

I absolutely trust that Gloria won't make the hypothetical mis-step above. She's got her job on merits, skill and smarts...and you (and I) are posting on college football message boards!

Why in the world would you assume I’d talk like that if I were the commish? That’s silly. 

If you really think about it, I mean really think about it, the full reverse merger with the MWC or just joining the MWC are their only 2 best options, by far. Otherwise they are 100% screwed. 100%. 

They don’t just need schools, they need good schools, they need 10 to 12 schools to make the cfb playoff happy, and they need 10 to 12 good schools that are close enough geographically and make sense with geographical rivals and matchups people will watch on TV. 

If they went to get UNT, Rice, UTSA, South Florida, Memphis, FIU, etc, the twins would have to put their BB and Olympic Sports into an FCS conference because of the travel costs and time. And no MWC school is going to join that. It’s just undoable. And the AAC schools would have to worry about the twins jumping ship in the future with such a small conference. 

With the MWC schools, the twins get the best FB and BB, no Olympic sport issues, travel is reasonable, regional rivalries keep attendance strong, solid seat at the playoff, etc. It’s their only move. 

[dAB]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:48 AM, Billings said:

WSU and OSU joint press conference.   Long

 

 

I did not have a chance to listen to all of this, but early in the PC, they said something disconcerting.  They said that they have not had meaningful discussions with any possible media partners.  

I would think that due diligence would dictate that working with media partners on the highest-value conference in terms of schools would be at the top of the list of things to do.

Going to possible media partners with "what if" scenarios early in the decision process seems to me to be the most important thing to do.

[SteedLaw]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:48 AM, dAB said:

I did not have a chance to listen to all of this, but early in the PC, they said something disconcerting.  They said that they have not had meaningful discussions with any possible media partners.  

I would think that due diligence would dictate that working with media partners on the highest-value conference in terms of schools would be at the top of the list of things to do.

Going to possible media partners with "what if" scenarios early in the decision process seems to me to be the most important thing to do.

Of course they are not taking to media partners. Why would they? They have zero intent to go it alone. Zero. And, despite what others say, there is also a zero chance they are cherry-picking a new PAC too. 

How many times for they have to say it before people will believe them? They are working on partnering with the MWC moving forward in some fashion and are allowing the conference to talk to the media partners, as they should. 

[OzzyOzz]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:37 PM, Nevada Convert said:

Over my skis and relax? LOL. So you trust that the twins have gone from the arrogant PAC-12 mindset starting point, then being abandoned yet still delusional and in denial as of recent times to suddenly having pure clarity of their reality? I sure don’t, because they still think there’s a good chance they can rebuild the PAC with just 6 MWC members. 

You don’t just suddenly get clarity having been in a culture of arrogance for decades, and you don’t just get over being dumped in a couple of months. It’s a process, and it’s clear to me they’re still in that process. Sure, they’re both doing well in FB right now, and that’s not helping their top shelf feelings about themselves. But they will demand extra special treatment in any scenario, and it’s going to be Gloria’s job to kindly and diplomatically explain to them that it can’t happen. 

You don't know what it's like to be a coug..Cougs hate Huskies because in Seattle, in high school, all the cool kids go off to get away and party for 4 more years in Pullman (work hard, party hard lol, as they say..) and all the nerdy kids with good grades go to UW. Those are the types that end up at WSU, as well as lots of legacies, and then highly recruited international students from the weirdest places...all brought to an off the wall place. It's an interesting admixture, even the professors are from random places..

It's usually people who just want to get away and focus on their goals who end up in Pullman. Kids who have either rejected or have been rejected by the status quo so far..but good kids nontheless. I mean, they're kids lol it's actually a good thing at times. And also kids, even international, that were overshadowed a bit but still want to work..

And I'd say the next most hated teams in Pullman are Stanford, Cal, and USC..for those same elitist attitudes you purport we display.

wsu is constantly getting overshadowed, far from elitist..that's UW thinking they are Stanford lol..

 

[Nevada Convert]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:48 AM, Billings said:

WSU and OSU joint press conference.   Long

 

 

That poor lady in the lower left looks like she needs some medical attention. 

[OzzyOzz]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:52 PM, Headbutt said:

I trust that they are not in any way, shape, or form liking their new reality, but their leadership didn't get their jobs by being stupid.  Their options are very, very limited.  They'll try for extra media shares, and special treatment, but I don't think they'll get it.  Hair isn't in charge anymore.  No way in hell, IMO, they can rebuild the Pac without taking the entire MWC.  Somebody will have to find $102 million, and that conference (regardless of the six who go there) will not be recognized by the CFP.  Take a peek at current events, the CFP is replacing the NCAA.

I'm not saying that they're in love with the new reality, just that they are aware of it.  Barring some sort of acceptance into the B12, they don't really have a choice in the matter.  Every single other option reeks of failure.  Any MWC school choosing to make the jump without the rest of the conference is staring down defeat.  I just don't see it happening, and I sure don't see it succeeding.

I don't understand why any program would decline p status even if in language only, and possibly permanently, if offered it under the banner of the newPac12. 

Especially if the practical outcome will be the same.

If the MWC will need clarification as to whether a dissolution of their conference and a subsequent joining of the pac might change their individual school's status, then it should be pursued. 

It's the next question that needs to be answered for wsu/OSU anyway..

If there are more power spots about to open, it wont be WSU/OSU who would choose them anyway..I'd think theyd open up 10+2 spots and draw them from everywhere, perhaps only 5 mwc teams get invites..who knows..

[masterfrog]

Why is the Mountain West so interested in Washington State?  It fits the general profile, but what do they really bring to the conference?  It isn’t an easy place to get to. In fact, I saw during the Wisconsin game that the Badgers were the first Power 5 school to visit Pullman for a non conference game since 1998. That doesn’t scream big nonconference television matchups for the tv partners. 

[OzzyOzz]

^ Yeah maybe wsu should pursue Canadian collegiate affiliations, how dare they be an out of the way college town?

Again, this isn't a business. These are public institution with public obligations. So, that's why..

 

[bigd]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:53 AM, masterfrog said:

Why is the Mountain West so interested in Washington State?  It fits the general profile, but what do they really bring to the conference?  It isn’t an easy place to get to. In fact, I saw during the Wisconsin game that the Badgers were the first Power 5 school to visit Pullman for a non conference game since 1998. That doesn’t scream big nonconference television matchups for the tv partners. 

We aren't the SEC. WSU brings a top 25 football team and one of the two flagships in the second most populated state out west. Plus they're a land grant that would raise the leagues academic profile. They're a perfect fit along with OSU. 

Sure they're a long ways from Seattle, but Spokane is a pretty good market, and much of their student body and alumni are from/in Seattle. 

Plus, adding WSU and OSU gives us members in every western state except AZ and MT. There's definitely value in that.