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Conference Realignment thread

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On 9/21/2023 at 1:22 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

Lol! How many times have Wyo, USU, SJSU, etc. been considered for admission to a power conference?

How many times has a school left their conference without a power invite thinking they had one and they didn’t, and then have to beg their ex-slumlord Gloria to let them return…..…and then once back in tell everyone how badass they still are? And then being so badass, their butts in seats count is right there with SJSU? Now THAT is a power school, dammit. 😂😂

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On 9/21/2023 at 5:30 PM, RSF said:

Actually, they can.  The assets are owned by the conference.  And the conference would have 2 members.  And their fiduciary duty is to the conference and its members.  Of which there will be 2 of those.

No, they absolutely can't.  If you have ever sat on a 501c3 board you would know this.  It is one of the first things that you are told.  If the conference dissolves, there would clearly be court cases about the assets and usually, if there is not agreement on all parties, the assets go to an unaffiliated charity.

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On 9/21/2023 at 6:45 PM, dAB said:

No, they absolutely can't.  If you have ever sat on a 501c3 board you would know this.  It is one of the first things that you are told.  If the conference dissolves, there would clearly be court cases about the assets and usually, if there is not agreement on all parties, the assets go to an unaffiliated charity.

I think O/WSU are contending that the conference isn't dissolving.  That's the whole point of rebuilding it instead of just joining the MWC.  We'll see what the courts say.

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On 9/21/2023 at 3:23 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

Actually, it was a great answer since offers of promotion are based almost entirely on the perceived value of the offeree.

You and others similarly afraid of this idea: The Little Dutch Boy Dam About To Burst GIF - The Little Dutch Boy Dam  About To Burst Dam Burst - Discover & Share GIFs

Not preceived value, more like perceived population. For your benefit, at least it’s not actual attendance.

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I know most of the board is rooting for full merger, and I think that’s as likely to happen as anything else, but when I read things like this, I’m still not sure it won’t be a PacX instead of a full merger.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38456400/wsu-osu-anticipate-fuller-pac-12-picture-next-month

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Someone will be fired now but certain jobs are still untouchable. 

Someone's on the chopping block..

On 9/21/2023 at 6:45 PM, Headbutt said:

I think O/WSU are contending that the conference isn't dissolving.  That's the whole point of rebuilding it instead of just joining the MWC.  We'll see what the courts say.

Yes, exactly this. It was a mistake to announce departures without first announcing intention to dissolve the conference. And apparently there are emails stating that the intention of some departing schools was actually NOT to dissolve the conference. Others, of course, saw an opportunity to dissolve the conference and the truth is there was no intention to dissolve the conference until recently, and only by some members. 

And had they not announced that they were leaving, therefore giving up board rights, they could have voted to dissolve the conference in good faith.

The question will come down to whether the 10 departing members have a right to dissolve a public trust, seemingly in a bid to sabotage the remaining two members, or do the public, and other non pac affiliated public institutions have a right to the opportunity to utilize those assets, and to include WSU/OSU more specifically? Especially in lieu of whoever the departing member might prefer as that is either in bad faith, is a coi, and/or an attempt at theft of opportunity from the public and its free market.

It is a decades old institution and these bylaws were written a certain way for a reason. If they are allowed to play out without interference then the conclusions are obvious. 

If assets are dispersed, it is simply bad faith for them to be distributed to any departing member affiliates. The question is of affiliation, can wsu and OSU still be affiliated with those assets should they find the requisite unaffiliated public institution members to which the public assets are to be redistributed?

And so, someone will have to be fired because regardless of outcome, mistakes were made. Some people still can't be fired yet, but some can, and they might be as soon as this passes along in court..

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On 9/21/2023 at 6:56 PM, wyo 1 said:

Not preceived value, more like perceived population. For your benefit, at least it’s not actual attendance.

Not under a relegation model.  Wyoming of all teams should be supporting this option.  Promotion and relegation is based on performance on the field.  If they just pick top conferences then market size comes more into play.

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On 9/21/2023 at 7:45 PM, dAB said:

No, they absolutely can't.  If you have ever sat on a 501c3 board you would know this.  It is one of the first things that you are told.  If the conference dissolves, there would clearly be court cases about the assets and usually, if there is not agreement on all parties, the assets go to an unaffiliated charity.

everybody keeps forgetting that there's only 2 schools.  The board has only 2 members.  Read the bylaws.

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It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:20 PM, RSF said:

everybody keeps forgetting that there's only 2 schools.  The board has only 2 members.  Read the bylaws.

As I said a month ago...the conference may dissolve, but it will take a judge to do it because membership won't.

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On 9/21/2023 at 10:26 PM, Headbutt said:

As I said a month ago...the conference may dissolve, but it will take a judge to do it because membership won't.

I'm not even concerned about whether it dissolves or not, because its not relevant.  It's about who controls the assets.  The other schools are trying an end-around to bypass the bylaws.  USC and UCLA havent been involved with the board for over a year.  Colorado got the boot the day they announced.  And so on. There will be lots and lots of legal brawling, but the bylaws are a legal document, which they all agreed to.

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It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:28 PM, RSF said:

I'm not even concerned about whether it dissolves or not, because its not relevant.  It's about who controls the assets.  The other schools are trying an end-around to bypass the bylaws.

I suspect that there's something in that for Kliavkoff.  He seems to be neck deep in this.  Needs to secure that buyout, because right now he's a dead man walking.

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On 9/21/2023 at 7:46 PM, CPslograd said:

I know most of the board is rooting for full merger, and I think that’s as likely to happen as anything else, but when I read things like this, I’m still not sure it won’t be a PacX instead of a full merger.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38456400/wsu-osu-anticipate-fuller-pac-12-picture-next-month

That's kind of the first time they have really talked about putting schedules together for next year and getting something together. Staying Pac-2, if stands that way, again may be higher on their list than people think it is

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On 9/21/2023 at 5:30 PM, Nevada Convert said:

OSU and WSU act like they have control and are calling the shots. They aren’t. 

If they gain control of the Pac-12 and the assets, they might be. I say might because I have no idea how valid anything is that people have heard, but if they control the future of the conference, gain the assets and actually play as the Pac-2, they are most definitely in charge of that conference and how they approach the future.

At this point, you’re correct though. Everything is up in the air so they aren’t in charge. But who is?

Seems like that’s yet to be determined.

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On 9/21/2023 at 10:14 PM, clydebeav said:

If they gain control of the Pac-12 and the assets, they might be. I say might because I have no idea how valid anything is that people have heard, but if they control the future of the conference, gain the assets and actually play as the Pac-2, they are most definitely in charge of that conference and how they approach the future.

At this point, you’re correct though. Everything is up in the air so they aren’t in charge. But who is?

Seems like that’s yet to be determined.

I do believe that if the courts uphold the bylaws, then O/WSU completely control the future of the conference.  The outstanding assets and liabilities might be another story.  It'll depend on the judge.  For now, those two need control of the conference.  That's the only way they can move forward in a timely manner.  The assets?  That could take years.

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:14 PM, clydebeav said:

If they gain control of the Pac-12 and the assets, they might be. I say might because I have no idea how valid anything is that people have heard, but if they control the future of the conference, gain the assets and actually play as the Pac-2, they are most definitely in charge of that conference and how they approach the future.

At this point, you’re correct though. Everything is up in the air so they aren’t in charge. But who is?

Seems like that’s yet to be determined.

LOL. More PAC-12 arrogance. The only conference that needs something is the PAC-2, no one else. The PAC-2 conference will cease to exist if they don’t find 6 more members in 2 years. However, the cfb playoff folks have already stated to the PAC-2 that an 8 member conference won’t have playoff access. 

So to survive, they actually need at least 10 to 12 more members. They should be very concerned. If they play dickball with the MWC, the MWC will pass on them, and they’re 100% fvcked. They are 100% doomed. The MWC is their savior, period. They need to be reminded of that. The MWC has nearly 100% of the leverage. 

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On 9/21/2023 at 10:44 PM, Nevada Convert said:

LOL. More PAC-12 arrogance. The only conference that needs something is the PAC-2, no one else. The PAC-2 conference will cease to exist if they don’t find 6 more members in 2 years. However, the cfb playoff folks have already stated to the PAC-2 that an 8 member conference won’t have playoff access. 

So to survive, they actually need at least 10 to 12 more members. They should be very concerned. If they play dickball with the MWC, the MWC will pass on them, and they’re 100% fvcked. They are 100% doomed. The MWC is their savior, period. They need to be reminded of that. The MWC has nearly 100% of the leverage. 

Would you relax?  You're way out over your skis on this one.  The Pac 2 presidents know the current landscape much, much better than us armchair experts.  They will find a way to combine with the entire MWC, or they will join the B12 (not likely) or they will die.  They know their options, but none of their options matter until the courts say they matter.  Nobody knows the ramifications of playing "dickball" more than the NW twins.  They've just been the victims of it multiple times.  This crap isn't going to happen yesterday.  The departing teams appear to not want it to go easy.  At the end of the day OSU and WSU have to join/create/revive a conference.  They can't do that until they get some affirmation from the courts.  Folks just need to slow down.

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:44 PM, Nevada Convert said:

LOL. More PAC-12 arrogance. The only conference that needs something is the PAC-2, no one else. The PAC-2 conference will cease to exist if they don’t find 6 more members in 2 years. However, the cfb playoff folks have already stated to the PAC-2 that an 8 member conference won’t have playoff access. 

So to survive, they actually need at least 10 to 12 more members. They should be very concerned. If they play dickball with the MWC, the MWC will pass on them, and they’re 100% fvcked. They are 100% doomed. The MWC is their savior, period. They need to be reminded of that. The MWC has nearly 100% of the leverage. 

The Mountain West will not pass on them. Get over yourself. Nevarez isn’t stupid. She’s giving them space to figure out their legal issues. If it all falls apart, they will still have a spot in the Mountain West.

By the way, I was talking in hypotheticals. “Maybe” and “might” mean that I’m not stating facts. You saying the MW is our savior and has all the leverage makes you sound arrogant. 

Some people on this board get real butt hurt and defensive when anyone suggests something that they don’t agree with.

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On 9/21/2023 at 10:08 PM, Headbutt said:

Would you relax?  You're way out over your skis on this one.  The Pac 2 presidents know the current landscape much, much better than us armchair experts.  They will find a way to combine with the entire MWC, or they will join the B12 (not likely) or they will die.  They know their options, but none of their options matter until the courts say they matter.  Nobody knows the ramifications of playing "dickball" more than the NW twins.  They've just been the victims of it multiple times.  This crap isn't going to happen yesterday.  The departing teams appear to not want it to go easy.  At the end of the day OSU and WSU have to join/create/revive a conference.  They can't do that until they get some affirmation from the courts.  Folks just need to slow down.

That is what I have been saying for a bit, people need to cool their jets. We need Step 1 to be finished before moving onto Step 2 then Step 3 and all that. And really we have to wait until the court rules again or some settlement between the schools is made. For all we know the judge is trying to get them to settle it among themselves in some form so they don't have to take a more active role in this which could also lead to appeals and more injunctions as well.

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:31 PM, Headbutt said:

I do believe that if the courts uphold the bylaws, then O/WSU completely control the future of the conference.  The outstanding assets and liabilities might be another story.  It'll depend on the judge.  For now, those two need control of the conference.  That's the only way they can move forward in a timely manner.  The assets?  That could take years.

I agree with you on that. The primary objective is to take control of the conference entity and brand. At that point, they could hopefully find out what the assets and liabilities really are. I would hope that after August of 2024, when the other teams join their other conferences, they will move on. I don’t have faith that they will though.

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On 9/21/2023 at 11:15 PM, clydebeav said:

I agree with you on that. The primary objective is to take control of the conference entity and brand. At that point, they could hopefully find out what the assets and liabilities really are. I would hope that after August of 2024, when the other teams join their other conferences, they will move on. I don’t have faith that they will though.

I don't think they have any choice.  As of now, they are complaining to the court as a competitive entity.  Not a member of the Pac12.  They surrendered that position without duress.  They participated in setting the precedence in not having any say in the direction of the conference.  In short, they went to work for GM and can no longer have any say in the future activities of Ford.  Make your bed, and you sleep in it.  It's a pretty comfy bed for most of them, I don't see where they get anywhere with their efforts.

Assets can be settled over time.  It should be quick, but it might not be.  Control of the conference is laid out in black and white and that's the most critical part of the whole equation in the short term.

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