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Conference Realignment thread

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On 9/20/2023 at 6:16 PM, utgrizfan said:

If they get 9 to vote on disbanding (still think a simple merger is more likely one way or another) I think the remaining 3 would try and rebuild rather then go to CUSA as someone else mentioned.

From the different lists I've seen on here and other forums it seems that  SJSU, Nevada and New Mexico would be on the chopping block more then the rest of the schools. They'd just have to add:

NMSU, UTEP, Montana, MSU, UC-Davis (or) Sac State, Idaho

That would get then to 9 teams with a full 8 game Conference Schedule, could also potentially add the following either as Football/Oly only or as full members:

SHSU, Tarleton State, NDSU, SDSU, GCU

Regardless of what happens or whatever combination of teams are left behind I feel as long as the MWC has anywhere from 3-6 schools (again not a very likely scenario in my opinion) they will be able to rebuild.

Nevada is not on the chopping block with the PAC-2. With Stanford and CAL involved as the PAC-4, yes, we were. When there were the 10 schools still, we were at #5 or #6 in the PAC MWC pecking order. It appears we are still seen as about a #5 or #6 with the PAC-2 right based on OSU/WSU writers and recruiting site writers. 

With CAL & Stanford so close together, then you had SJSU, Nevada and Fresno St. as regional markets. Obviously, they didn’t want SJSU for a lot of reasons including being in the same market, but apparently they felt we were too close to their market. So they were OK with just Fresno in the region. Weird. 

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On 9/20/2023 at 11:24 PM, OzzyOzz said:

My question is, who are these people writing this and why do they get paid to throw out ideas that might change people's lives?

The Pac was the public ivy league of the West and they will fight it all the way up to retain that status, even if they have to drag up 10 schools with them to do so.

It's patronizing to be presented with NFL2kFifa weekend league type conference formats, and in the national media regardless. Do these people not get embarrassed? They talk as if there is no fight to be had. Have you ever met a coug? People are way too many steps ahead. The pac2 will affirm their assets first and then they will affirm their academic standing. It will hope to retain that stature and beyond anything, that will be the first priority. Not money. Not football.

And so,

My questions are..

..what exactly is the relationship between the the cfb board and the NCAA? 

How does voting work with each and how are the pac 2 potentially impacted? 

And with money?

I have a general idea as to what those answers are but also I pay a lot more attention than most obviously. 

A journalist might try to write an article in that vein then, instead of whatever hypothetical Cinderella rabbit hole football anime drama of theirs that they want to make reality.

And with chatgpt, they can do it in 10 mins. It's easier than ever to make sense, it's a wonder why people still insist on not doing so....

I'm trying to convince myself that absurdity is part of the process here though..

Carry on..

You certainly can't be expected to know this so I'll clue you in. Good or bad, among the attributes of this board is that fans of schools like SDSU, Boise State, formerly Utah, BYU, and TCU and more recently Fresno State and UNLV, want out of the MWC. We see it as a conference that is slowly but surely dying, at least when it comes to football. Therefore, if we can't get a promotion, we want changes made within the conference which will reflect our greater value to the conference while simultaneously having the potential to improve it as a whole. In contrast, fans of MWC schools who see the conference as the pinnacle of their sports potential understandably don't want any changes.

Until a couple months ago, I was very optimistic that SDSU would be leaving for a Pac-whatever. Contrary to what so many fans of USU, SJSU, and particularly Wyoming argued, I thought that even if SDSU wasn't added to the Pac, there was no way that every school but OSU and WSU would leave the Pac. I thought there was even less chance that if that occurred, you "twins" would join the MWC as many Aggies, Spartans and Cowboys said would occur. Being left behind was beyond the control of OSU and WSU. However, if you just roll over now and allow yourselves to be subsumed by an inferior league simply because of its numbers - and it thankfully appears that you are doing the opposite - those of us who support the most valuable members of the MWC will lose a lot of respect for you.

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My idea of what I called the 2 tiered conference with an upper Power Division and a lower West Division was just to get whoever was peaking into one division to be considered semi-power like BYU was considered with the Big-10, for example. 

Why? Because:

1. It will create a much tougher strength of schedule for the best performing teams. 

2. The better teams which some will be ranked will generate better match-up ratings for the conference TV deal. That means more $ for everyone.

3.  It will allow for better bowl games and $ payouts for the conference. 

4. It should make access easier to the cfb playoff. 

5. The rebuilding teams are going to be sitting at the bottom of the conference regardless. Might as well be in a lower division so the conference makes more money. 

The lower West Division is for those that are rebuilding with new coaches, but everyone in the conference gets the same money and chance to be successful. And with my idea, if a lower team surprises and say goes undefeated or loses one game, they can get moved up early to the Power Division to access a chance at the better bowl games. 

 

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:43 AM, Nevada Convert said:

My idea of what I called the 2 tiered conference with an upper Power Division and a lower West Division was just to get whoever was peaking into one division to be considered semi-power like BYU was considered with the Big-10, for example. 

Why? Because:

1. It will create a much tougher strength of schedule for the best performing teams. 

2. The better teams which some will be ranked will generate better match-up ratings for the conference TV deal. That means more $ for everyone.

3.  It will allow for better bowl games and $ payouts for the conference. 

4. It should make access easier to the cfb playoff. 

5. The rebuilding teams are going to be sitting at the bottom of the conference regardless. Might as well be in a lower division so the conference makes more money. 

The lower West Division is for those that are rebuilding with new coaches, but everyone in the conference gets the same money and chance to be successful. And with my idea, if a lower team surprises and say goes undefeated or loses one game, they can get moved up early to the Power Division to access a chance at their bowl games. 

To you Wolf Pack fans who aren't afraid of the prospect of change, I say :Clapping:

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On 9/21/2023 at 10:42 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

You certainly can't be expected to know this so I'll clue you in. Good or bad, among the attributes of this board is that fans of schools like SDSU, Boise State, formerly Utah, BYU, and TCU and more recently Fresno State and UNLV, want out of the MWC. We see it as a conference that is slowly but surely dying, at least when it comes to football. Therefore, if we can't get a promotion, we want changes made within the conference which will reflect our greater value to the conference while simultaneously having the potential to improve it as a whole. In contrast, fans of MWC schools who see the conference as the pinnacle of their sports potential understandably don't want any changes.

Until a couple months ago, I was very optimistic that SDSU would be leaving for a Pac-whatever. Contrary to what so many fans of USU, SJSU, and particularly Wyoming argued, I thought that even if SDSU wasn't added to the Pac, there was no way in the world that every school but OSU and WSU would leave the Pac. I thought there was even less chance that if that occurred, you "twins" would join the MWC as many Aggies, Spartans and Cowboys said would occur. Being left behind was beyond the control of OSU and WSU. However, if you just roll over and allow yourselves to be subsumed by an inferior league simply because of its numbers - and it thankfully appears that you are doing the opposite - those of us who support the most valuable members of the MWC will lose a lot of respect for you.

I'm all for maximizing as much value as we can out of the MW but at this point, what do you think is a realistic option for schools who want out of the MW beyond a PAC 2 + MW?  

Maybe a PAC 2+MW+a few AAC schools?  But that is still just a G5 league.  

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:46 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

To you Wolf Pack fans who aren't scared of the prospect of change, I say :Clapping:

And our budget is also drastically being razed. If you think your school would never drop down the lower division when being down, you’re kidding yourself. Every school would end up down there at times. 

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:46 AM, Wyobraska said:

I'm all for maximizing as much value as we can out of the MW but at this point, what do you think is a realistic option for schools who want out of the MW beyond a PAC 2 + MW?  

Maybe a PAC 2+MW+a few AAC schools?  But that is still just a G5 league.  

None of us here should be naive enough to think that our school's football program will have any reasonable chance to become of the elite of the sport when the big boys break away from the NCAA. (Maybe within 50 years? I doubt that because that long from now there may no longer be any college football as we know it because the NFL will just develop its own minor league.)

However, there is now a chance to create the best non-power league in the country. One good enough to have its champion play in the CFP annually. Let's not blow it.

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On 9/21/2023 at 9:53 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

None of us here should be naive enough to think that our school's football program will have any reasonable chance to become of the elite of the sport when the big boys break away from the NCAA. (Maybe within 50 years? I doubt that because that long from now there may no longer be any college football as we know it because the NFL will just develop its own minor league.)

However, there is now a chance to create the best non-power league in the country. One good enough to have its champion play in the CFP annually. Let's not blow it.

A BOR, if it occurs should be coast-to-coast with regional divisions and take in the top of the Sun Belt, MAC, AAC and MWC. 

Personally, I think WSU and OSU find their way into the Big 12 somehow.

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On 9/21/2023 at 8:40 AM, sactowndog said:

so much wrong in this….

1) scheduling would be more fair as all teams in the top would play each other and all teams in the bottom play each other.

2) you seem to think all players will transfer out.  Will they transfer in to the team moving up? 

3) you have no idea on the planned revenue split and the delta between leagues.  I doubt the top makes more than a 30-40% bump.  

4) never come back??  What do you think the MWC/WAC split represented?  Fresno came back just fine.

1) Home and away? Come on, you know some year conference schedules are tougher than others. It’s not balanced 

2) You haven’t a clue either. May be they transfer up. Maybe they transfer out to that other league (the P5/4 that still exists). 
 

3) Relegated teams with no shot at the playoff will generate no TV money. Look at our contract vs the P4. Or better yet us vs an FCS conference. You are talking fractional revenue. The money is a pipe dream. Pure fantasy but if this is your windmill so be it.
 

4) A break away is not a relegation.  Fresno was not formally placed in a lower ‘tier’. There is no weight to a false comparison. 
 

I don’t mean to come off as harsh but nothing you said here makes any sense. 

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On 9/21/2023 at 10:42 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

You certainly can't be expected to know this so I'll clue you in. Good or bad, among the attributes of this board is that fans of schools like SDSU, Boise State, formerly Utah, BYU, and TCU and more recently Fresno State and UNLV, want out of the MWC. We see it as a conference that is slowly but surely dying, at least when it comes to football. Therefore, if we can't get a promotion, we want changes made within the conference which will reflect our greater value to the conference while simultaneously having the potential to improve it as a whole. In contrast, fans of MWC schools who see the conference as the pinnacle of their sports potential understandably don't want any changes.

Until a couple months ago, I was very optimistic that SDSU would be leaving for a Pac-whatever. Contrary to what so many fans of USU, SJSU, and particularly Wyoming argued, I thought that even if SDSU wasn't added to the Pac, there was no way that every school but OSU and WSU would leave the Pac. I thought there was even less chance that if that occurred, you "twins" would join the MWC as many Aggies, Spartans and Cowboys said would occur. Being left behind was beyond the control of OSU and WSU. However, if you just roll over now and allow yourselves to be subsumed by an inferior league simply because of its numbers - and it thankfully appears that you are doing the opposite - those of us who support the most valuable members of the MWC will lose a lot of respect for you.

My opinion is they will not be subsumed. rather, the rising tide lifts all boats. 

Here is how I see this playing out in the most likely scenario:

  1. W/OSU first win their dec action suit determining they are in control of the PAC decision-making moving forward.
  2. The first item of business will be to effectuate a reverse merger with the MWC to create a PAC-14. However, there will be caveats as follows:
  • All MWC teams will agree to a one-time distribution pre-merger that the MWC teams will not participate in. 
  • All MWC teams will agree to dissolve the MWC and those assets will be contributed to the new league as a “full member buy in” for the MWC schools. 
  • All MWC teams will receive a full member invite to the PAC, with caveats that each team increases its athletic and research spending budgets by a certain minimum percentage amount over a period of years.

After this is done, they will consider adding more teams to either (a) increase the number of teams to 16 or 18, or (b) add even more teams to create a two-league promotion/relegation league. (However, the latter simply cannot happen if the CFP powers do not first approve — both for auto if purposes and bowl-tie ins. Without their express approval in writing, this is a lost cause.) Regardless, any new teams added would have to agree to the same minimum percentage increases to their athletic and research budgets as the MWC. Newly added schools/teams (not including the MWC teams) would also likely have to agree to a reduced payout for a period of years as their “buy in”.

Once this is completed, the final step would be to renegotiate the media contracts. 

In essence, it still has a powerful chance to be a very good league at the top of the G5 and/or the bottom of the P5. 

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It's going to suck when a relegated team improves drastically over the course of one season (or was like a QB away from being really good) from going undefeated but is sabotaged by their own conference from being in the upper division and doesn't get a playoff spot.

It's going to happen more than you think.  So will the "weaker" conference being stronger than the "strong" division.

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On 9/21/2023 at 11:40 AM, SteedLaw said:

My opinion is they will not be subsumed. rather, the rising tide lifts all boats. 

Here is how I see this playing out in the most likely scenario:

  1. W/OSU first win their dec action suit determining they are in control of the PAC decision-making moving forward.
  2. The first item of business will be to effectuate a reverse merger with the MWC to create a PAC-14. However, there will be caveats as follows:
  • All MWC teams will agree to a one-time distribution pre-merger that the MWC teams will not participate in. 
  • All MWC teams will agree to dissolve the MWC and those assets will be contributed to the new league as a “full member buy in” for the MWC schools. 
  • All MWC teams will receive a full member invite to the PAC, with caveats that each team increases its athletic and research spending budgets by a certain minimum percentage amount over a period of years.

After this is done, they will consider adding more teams to either (a) increase the number of teams to 16 or 18, or (b) add even more teams to create a two-league promotion/relegation league. (However, the latter simply cannot happen if the CFP powers do not first approve — both for auto if purposes and bowl-tie ins. Without their express approval in writing, this is a lost cause.) Regardless, any new teams added would have to agree to the same minimum percentage increases to their athletic and research budgets as the MWC. Newly added schools/teams (not including the MWC teams) would also likely have to agree to a reduced payout for a period of years as their “buy in”.

Once this is completed, the final step would be to renegotiate the media contracts. 

In essence, it still has a powerful chance to be a very good league at the top of the G5 and/or the bottom of the P5. 

Sounds like a solid G5 conference based out west.  Top teams will be battling it out with top teams from G5 conferences in other parts of the country for the 1 playoff spot once the playoff committee updates the format.  Nothing wrong with that.  Media contract should get a nice bump, nothing remotely competitive with the big leagues but still better than it is today.

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On 9/21/2023 at 10:42 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

You certainly can't be expected to know this so I'll clue you in. Good or bad, among the attributes of this board is that fans of schools like SDSU, Boise State, formerly Utah, BYU, and TCU and more recently Fresno State and UNLV, want out of the MWC. We see it as a conference that is slowly but surely dying, at least when it comes to football. Therefore, if we can't get a promotion, we want changes made within the conference which will reflect our greater value to the conference while simultaneously having the potential to improve it as a whole. In contrast, fans of MWC schools who see the conference as the pinnacle of their sports potential understandably don't want any changes.

Until a couple months ago, I was very optimistic that SDSU would be leaving for a Pac-whatever. Contrary to what so many fans of USU, SJSU, and particularly Wyoming argued, I thought that even if SDSU wasn't added to the Pac, there was no way that every school but OSU and WSU would leave the Pac. I thought there was even less chance that if that occurred, you "twins" would join the MWC as many Aggies, Spartans and Cowboys said would occur. Being left behind was beyond the control of OSU and WSU. However, if you just roll over now and allow yourselves to be subsumed by an inferior league simply because of its numbers - and it thankfully appears that you are doing the opposite - those of us who support the most valuable members of the MWC will lose a lot of respect for you.

What greater value? Demonstrate it.

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https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football-pac-12-mountain-west-promotion-relegation-234810955.html

There's several reasons why I really like this promotion/relegation model:

1. Inclusion: Every team is associated on the schedule with the sports that matter the most to TV money (FB/BB) with incentive to improve. This model has worked in Europe for decades already.

2. Expansion: This is a time when AAC members are in transition and presents the MWC a reason to move to 16 teams without outlandish consequences. If a C-USA or AAC team wants to come out west, they can jump on without a lot strife at a time when the AAC is weaker. Everyone in the MWC will want to play games in Texas and everyone recruits there.

3. Clean slate and no liquidation: Assuming the media deal is funded and cut 60/40, and all other entities are kept as they are, teams headed to the PAC division are basically receiving what the MWC already provides them in sweetheart deal form. Boise's extra cut deal precedent could finally be wiped with an elevated payout in the PAC division, which they surely would be elected to. It evaporates a necessary evil from a time of less stability.

4. More reasons to watch non-championship games: Watching the stakes of a relegation game or a promotion game would be an extra treat for people with vested interest in the conference. Lots of drama. I would watch the crap out them. 

Detractions: 

I think it was irresponsible of Dellenger to spitball "obvious" expansion candidates like SDSU and NDSU, which subsequent piggy backing articles latched on-to. There are other teams with much richer recruiting areas to invite than the Dakotas, Montanas, or other aspiring FCS squads.  

A soccer styled point system is absurd to speculate over in the college football game, where ties are non-existent.

The article also assumes that ADs won't know how to do their jobs: if you don't know how much money you're getting between the divisions, budgeting for the lowest possible payout (and possibly getting a surplus) seems common sense to me. 

Let's do it. 

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On 9/21/2023 at 11:20 AM, WAC_FAN said:

It's going to suck when a relegated team improves drastically over the course of one season (or was like a QB away from being really good) from going undefeated but is sabotaged by their own conference from being in the upper division and doesn't get a playoff spot.

It's going to happen more than you think.  So will the "weaker" conference being stronger than the "strong" division.

Not unless that team pulls a Coach Prime or Oregon State Dennis Erickson move.

Edit: Shoulda said not unless that team CAN pull off such a move. CU and Oregon State sucked pre-Prime and pre-Dennis but THOSE schools were each members of a power conference. The Pac-8/MWC-8 won't be one.

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