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Conference Realignment thread

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On 9/20/2023 at 8:21 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

You misunderstood. Rowing was CREATED to solve the not-enough women's scholarship problem. Rumor has it that at least in SD with Mission Bay, a rowing team can be had on the cheap.

For SD State it’s not scholarships.  SD State has to have participants that equal their percentage of female students.  
 

Men will walk on to play football but that means you have to pay a women to row for every football walk-on.

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On 9/20/2023 at 8:56 PM, wolfpack1 said:

Both options would kill those universities I mean C-USA isn't even getting $1 million a team for their contract I think I read

$1M vs $4M is peanuts for the number of sports programs FBS schools support, and especially when you look at the BiG, SEC, and B12 contracts.  Everyone has been left to the next level for the foreseeable future.  Stanford and Cal understood what being left out meant long term and bought their way in to the AAC.  The G5 schools aren't going anywhere, including moving up to the big leagues.  Settle in and enjoy the ride.  I know Rebel and others envision some best of the rest level between P4 and G5, but it isn't happening.  

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On 9/20/2023 at 8:22 PM, SteedLaw said:

Well…if this is true.
 

Then, yeah, I hope Gloria is working on getting what would be two non-NCAA sanctioned football-only conferences with a promotion/relegation agreement between the two approved by the powers of the CFP. Then, creating one multi-sport conference for BB and the rest of the Oly sports for both leagues. 

As long as the CFP powers accept what would be the top conference champion (i.e., the PAC champion) as an autobid to the CFP, and assuming other bowl tie-ins will not require the blessing of the NCAA, that is all that would matter. 

If this is really doable, then they should make that happen. But only after they get the nod from the CFP powers. Until then it would be undoable.

 

There are no autobids to the CFP.

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On 9/20/2023 at 6:48 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

You're undoubtedly correct. However, these big shot football schools could probably apply a lot of political pressure if reducing the power of Title IX is important enough to them.

Yeah except the timing is wrong with 2024 around the corner. Literally not time for that. 

On a more personal note, my interests are being shaken and changed, they are broken..but now I get to build from the ground up again and with a useful example and a confirmed working model..

Interesting times, I'm trying to see what all has fallen out of all this for me. I've definitely lost some. No more academic conferences from them. Facilities. Capital because I won't be able to meet them anyway now. 

Funny thing, my money is all the same. It's their money that just changed lol

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The Regulation Format could work for football only if they went North, South, East, West 8 teams apiece with 2 tiers.(64 Teams)

Tier 1 West- Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Wyoming, Air Force, Utah State

Tier 2 West- Nevada, UNLV, Colorado State, San Jose State, New Mexico, Hawaii, New Mexico State, UTEP

Tier 1 North- Ohio, Buffalo, Toledo, Northern Illinois, Army, Central Michigan, UConn, Western Kentucky

Tier 2 North- Ball State, Miami of Ohio, Akron, Bowling Green, Kent State, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Middle Tennessee

Tier 1 South- Tulane, North Texas, Tulsa, UAB, UTSA, Memphis, South Alabama, Troy

Tier 2 South- Texas State, Rice, Louisiana Cajuns, Louisiana Monroe, Southern Miss,  Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston State

Tier 1 East- Liberty, Navy, Temple, South Florida, East Carolina, Marshall, App State, Coastal Carolina

Tier 2 East- Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Old Dominion, James Madison, Charlotte, FAU, Jacksonville State, Florida International

 

Schedule 7 teams in same Tier plus 1 form each of the other Tiers and 2 from either Div 2 or Power 5.  7+3+2=12

 

Networks- Big 10 gets: FOX, FS1, Big Ten Net and Amazon Prime.        ACC gets: NBC, ACC NET, CW, and Peacock.   

Big 12 gets: CBS, NFL Net, CBS Sports Net and Paramount+      SEC gets: ABC, SEC Net, FX, Disney Plus and HULU

The Relegation 64 Conference would get: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU, ESPN+ and PAC 12 Network

12 Team Playoff top 3 teams in each Tier 1 Division.  Winners of each Division get a bye week, other 8 teams play first weekend with a random draw for matchups. Winners of those games play the bye week four. Highest ranked team in poll chooses opponent they want until all games are matched up.  It goes that way until League Champion is crowned.

Relegation Playoff- Tier 2 top 2 teams in each Division play a Division Championship Game. The winners get a chance to play the last place team from their corresponding Tier 1 Cardinal Direction Division.  If the Tier 2 team wins they are Promoted to Tier 1 in that Division and the losing team is Relegated.  If the Tier 2 team loses they stay in Tier 2 and the Tier 1 team remains in Tier 1. 

The 4 Tier 2 winners would finish their playoff before playing the relegation games.

Up to 4 teams can be relegated but they can stave off that relegation by winning the relegation game.  The 4 Relegation games would be played the day before the League Championship game is played. 2 games Saturday, 2 Sunday, Championship game on Monday.

The rest of the teams that don't make either playoff would be eligible for bowl games just like they are nowadays.

Payout- Tier 1 32 Teams would make 6 Mil apiece TV revenue(192 Mil), Tier 2 32 Teams would make 2 Mil apiece TV revenue(64 Mil).

Tier 2 playoff Champ would get 3 Mil, runner up 1 Mil,  Tier 1 playoff Champ would get 10 Mil, runner up would get 5 Mil.(19 Mil)

A total of 275 Million that ESPN would shell out under this new contract.

I think the promotion/relegation system would increase viewership exponentially.  The group of 5 schools should band together and make this happen.  The power 4 will break away eventually anyway. 

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On 9/20/2023 at 10:38 PM, bleachedwheat said:

The Regulation Format could work for football only if they went North, South, East, West 8 teams apiece with 2 tiers.(64 Teams)

Tier 1 West- Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Wyoming, Air Force, Utah State

Tier 2 West- Nevada, UNLV, Colorado State, San Jose State, New Mexico, Hawaii, New Mexico State, UTEP

Tier 1 North- Ohio, Buffalo, Toledo, Northern Illinois, Army, Central Michigan, UConn, Western Kentucky

Tier 2 North- Ball State, Miami of Ohio, Akron, Bowling Green, Kent State, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Middle Tennessee

Tier 1 South- Tulane, North Texas, Tulsa, UAB, UTSA, Memphis, South Alabama, Troy

Tier 2 South- Texas State, Rice, Louisiana Cajuns, Louisiana Monroe, Southern Miss,  Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston State

Tier 1 East- Liberty, Navy, Temple, South Florida, East Carolina, Marshall, App State, Coastal Carolina

Tier 2 East- Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Old Dominion, James Madison, Charlotte, FAU, Jacksonville State, Florida International

 

Schedule 7 teams in same Tier plus 1 form each of the other Tiers and 2 from either Div 2 or Power 5.  7+3+2=12

 

Networks- Big 10 gets: FOX, FS1, Big Ten Net and Amazon Prime.        ACC gets: NBC, ACC NET, CW, and Peacock.   

Big 12 gets: CBS, NFL Net, CBS Sports Net and Paramount+      SEC gets: ABC, SEC Net, FX, Disney Plus and HULU

The Relegation 64 Conference would get: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU, ESPN+ and PAC 12 Network

12 Team Playoff top 3 teams in each Tier 1 Division.  Winners of each Division get a bye week, other 8 teams play first weekend with a random draw for matchups. Winners of those games play the bye week four. Highest ranked team in poll chooses opponent they want until all games are matched up.  It goes that way until League Champion is crowned.

Relegation Playoff- Tier 2 top 2 teams in each Division play a Division Championship Game. The winners get a chance to play the last place team from their corresponding Tier 1 Cardinal Direction Division.  If the Tier 2 team wins they are Promoted to Tier 1 in that Division and the losing team is Relegated.  If the Tier 2 team loses they stay in Tier 2 and the Tier 1 team remains in Tier 1. 

The 4 Tier 2 winners would finish their playoff before playing the relegation games.

Up to 4 teams can be relegated but they can stave off that relegation by winning the relegation game.  The 4 Relegation games would be played the day before the League Championship game is played. 2 games Saturday, 2 Sunday, Championship game on Monday.

The rest of the teams that don't make either playoff would be eligible for bowl games just like they are nowadays.

Payout- Tier 1 32 Teams would make 6 Mil apiece TV revenue(192 Mil), Tier 2 32 Teams would make 2 Mil apiece TV revenue(64 Mil).

Tier 2 playoff Champ would get 3 Mil, runner up 1 Mil,  Tier 1 playoff Champ would get 10 Mil, runner up would get 5 Mil.(19 Mil)

A total of 275 Million that ESPN would shell out under this new contract.

I think the promotion/relegation system would increase viewership exponentially.  The group of 5 schools should band together and make this happen.  The power 4 will break away eventually anyway. 

image.png.82baefb4130023511d08c2d8f810de74.png

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On 9/20/2023 at 10:38 PM, bleachedwheat said:

The Regulation Format could work for football only if they went North, South, East, West 8 teams apiece with 2 tiers.(64 Teams)

Tier 1 West- Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Wyoming, Air Force, Utah State

Tier 2 West- Nevada, UNLV, Colorado State, San Jose State, New Mexico, Hawaii, New Mexico State, UTEP

Tier 1 North- Ohio, Buffalo, Toledo, Northern Illinois, Army, Central Michigan, UConn, Western Kentucky

Tier 2 North- Ball State, Miami of Ohio, Akron, Bowling Green, Kent State, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Middle Tennessee

Tier 1 South- Tulane, North Texas, Tulsa, UAB, UTSA, Memphis, South Alabama, Troy

Tier 2 South- Texas State, Rice, Louisiana Cajuns, Louisiana Monroe, Southern Miss,  Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston State

Tier 1 East- Liberty, Navy, Temple, South Florida, East Carolina, Marshall, App State, Coastal Carolina

Tier 2 East- Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Old Dominion, James Madison, Charlotte, FAU, Jacksonville State, Florida International

 

Schedule 7 teams in same Tier plus 1 form each of the other Tiers and 2 from either Div 2 or Power 5.  7+3+2=12

 

Networks- Big 10 gets: FOX, FS1, Big Ten Net and Amazon Prime.        ACC gets: NBC, ACC NET, CW, and Peacock.   

Big 12 gets: CBS, NFL Net, CBS Sports Net and Paramount+      SEC gets: ABC, SEC Net, FX, Disney Plus and HULU

The Relegation 64 Conference would get: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU, ESPN+ and PAC 12 Network

12 Team Playoff top 3 teams in each Tier 1 Division.  Winners of each Division get a bye week, other 8 teams play first weekend with a random draw for matchups. Winners of those games play the bye week four. Highest ranked team in poll chooses opponent they want until all games are matched up.  It goes that way until League Champion is crowned.

Relegation Playoff- Tier 2 top 2 teams in each Division play a Division Championship Game. The winners get a chance to play the last place team from their corresponding Tier 1 Cardinal Direction Division.  If the Tier 2 team wins they are Promoted to Tier 1 in that Division and the losing team is Relegated.  If the Tier 2 team loses they stay in Tier 2 and the Tier 1 team remains in Tier 1. 

The 4 Tier 2 winners would finish their playoff before playing the relegation games.

Up to 4 teams can be relegated but they can stave off that relegation by winning the relegation game.  The 4 Relegation games would be played the day before the League Championship game is played. 2 games Saturday, 2 Sunday, Championship game on Monday.

The rest of the teams that don't make either playoff would be eligible for bowl games just like they are nowadays.

Payout- Tier 1 32 Teams would make 6 Mil apiece TV revenue(192 Mil), Tier 2 32 Teams would make 2 Mil apiece TV revenue(64 Mil).

Tier 2 playoff Champ would get 3 Mil, runner up 1 Mil,  Tier 1 playoff Champ would get 10 Mil, runner up would get 5 Mil.(19 Mil)

A total of 275 Million that ESPN would shell out under this new contract.

I think the promotion/relegation system would increase viewership exponentially.  The group of 5 schools should band together and make this happen.  The power 4 will break away eventually anyway. 

I’m a fan of the EPL and the English FA system in general (Champoinship-National league). I lived in Europe and I’ve followed these leagues for more than twenty years and trying to implement this system in college football is as stupid as a screen door on a submarine. Let me count the ways. 
 

1) Doing it on your own without all of FBS going along is cutting your own throat.  

2) Once your team is demoted and all your players transfer out (remember the portal?) you are SOL and never recovering. Soccer teams are professional clubs with contracts and they get paid when players leave. Then they can buy new players. 

3) Recruiting will be a wasteland. Soccer clubs are just that, clubs with developmental academies. You can grown your own great players in this system. Many clubs stay economically viable by having great academies and selling young players. Then buying more players. 
 

4) The system is tied to the transfer system and economics of international Football. 


5) Lower division revenue is a fraction of Top Flight revenue.
 

6) Teams that can’t move up go broke and sell to new owners who then invest their own money to improve (Ryan and Rob). Who is going to buy your team, oh wait…nobody can. 
 

7) Scheduling can’t be balanced or fair with College football. In a soccer league, it is a true round robin. Every team plays everyone else at home and away.  Not possible in CFB and not everyone gets an equal shot. 
 

8) Smaller teams can stay relevant by competing in national open tournaments (the FA cup in England). They get to go up against the big teams and quite often knock them off. Again not possible in CFB. 

9) It’s un-American. Not in the way that you think. This system has been in place for a century and a half in England. If Man City has an awful season the fans will scream and throw a fit but they will accept the outcome. No way a college football program can survive the economic blow of a demotion. Can you imagine Bama going down as accepting it. Well, Newcastle United (4xchamps 2x runner up) did and so did Aston Villa (7xchamps 10x runner up). 
 

There’s more but I’m tired.
 
 

 

 

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On 9/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, RSF said:

Yeah, they are - Tell that to the youth academies and womens teams at all those Euro clubs.  No pay-to-play in Europe.  All subsidized by the senior team.

 

 

Funny how people running this down because of the money when they have no idea how the money would be structured.  Because its just an idea right now.

Ah, I see we are just ignoring my point about soccer clubs being able to slash their player payroll and there’s no analog of that in college athletics. Cool cool cool.

But sure, point taken about women’s clubs. The “point” re: youth academies is pretty weak though, as they can financially benefit the senior team indirectly (by producing talent for the senior team) and directly (by selling players to other clubs). A good softball team does not help a football program at all, except for potentially harming it by requiring the school to pay the softball coaching staff more, which takes resources away from football.
 

But anyways, I’m not “running” shit down. I’m pointing out a big potential issue even if there is “only” a difference of a couple million in revenue, while pointing out that NCAA football teams subsidized a hell of a lot more programs than Eurpean soccer clubs, so it’s silly to say the only thing keeping NCAA conferences from adopting pro-rel is “fear”, as if it’s some irrational thing. No, there are some big structural differences between NCAA athletics and European soccer clubs. 
 

And I say all this as someone that thinks pro-rel for NCAA football conferences would be pretty cool. 

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My question is, who are these people writing this and why do they get paid to throw out ideas that might change people's lives?

The Pac was the public ivy league of the West and they will fight it all the way up to retain that status, even if they have to drag up 10 schools with them to do so.

It's patronizing to be presented with NFL2kFifa weekend league type conference formats, and in the national media regardless. Do these people not get embarrassed? They talk as if there is no fight to be had. Have you ever met a coug? People are way too many steps ahead. The pac2 will affirm their assets first and then they will affirm their academic standing. It will hope to retain that stature and beyond anything, that will be the first priority. Not money. Not football.

And so,

My questions are..

..what exactly is the relationship between the the cfb board and the NCAA? 

How does voting work with each and how are the pac 2 potentially impacted? 

And with money?

I have a general idea as to what those answers are but also I pay a lot more attention than most obviously. 

A journalist might try to write an article in that vein then, instead of whatever hypothetical Cinderella rabbit hole football anime drama of theirs that they want to make reality.

And with chatgpt, they can do it in 10 mins. It's easier than ever to make sense, it's a wonder why people still insist on not doing so....

I'm trying to convince myself that absurdity is part of the process here though..

Carry on..

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I feel like there should be a much better vetting process to positions and appointments in general. A lot of people seem to have jobs that they aren't capable of doing. Elitism, nepotism, in/out clubs and networks and social spheres, titles and degrees and social rep..it all stems from the fundamental fear of social rejection. 

And a lot of these people are cowards.

They hide behind a desk, get paid, but when they actually have to make decisions, they don't know how because they didn't get there by merit or good decision making. 

Good looks, social charm, and a crippling fear of people not liking them that they couldn't get over in healthy ways in their childhood and so it manifested in ugly ways in their adulthood. 

Not aptitude at all. 

I wish everyone would be allowed to do what they are actually good at, and not be forced to busy themselves with just making money. I think some people should be encouraged to do so as a result of all these talks, even as they go forth. It might be time for some to be given the opportunity to explore their talents in a different capacity. 

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On 9/20/2023 at 11:24 PM, OzzyOzz said:

My question is, who are these people writing this and why do they get paid to throw out ideas that might change people's lives?

The Pac was the public ivy league of the West and they will fight it all the way up to retain that status, even if they have to drag up 10 schools with them to do so.

It's patronizing to be presented with NFL2kFifa weekend league type conference formats, and in the national media regardless. Do these people not get embarrassed? They talk as if there is no fight to be had. Have you ever met a coug? People are way too many steps ahead. The pac2 will affirm their assets first and then they will affirm their academic standing. It will hope to retain that stature and beyond anything, that will be the first priority. Not money. Not football.

And so,

My questions are..

..what exactly is the relationship between the the cfb board and the NCAA? 

How does voting work with each and how are the pac 2 potentially impacted? 

And with money?

I have a general idea as to what those answers are but also I pay a lot more attention than most obviously. 

A journalist might try to write an article in that vein then, instead of whatever hypothetical Cinderella rabbit hole football anime drama of theirs that they want to make reality.

And with chatgpt, they can do it in 10 mins. It's easier than ever to make sense, it's a wonder why people still insist on not doing so....

I'm trying to convince myself that absurdity is part of the process here though..

Carry on..

Well Cal and Stanford thought they were and tried to act like it which is/was part of the issues that Pac-12 had

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On 9/20/2023 at 6:18 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

European football clubs aren’t subsidizing entire athletic departments. They are just, you know, football clubs. If they get relegated they can always reduce their payroll by selling players. Sure it would suck, but it’s doable. 
 

For an athletic department there is no player payroll to reduce, it’s mainly coaches. A school gets relegated in football after 5 years in the top league what are they going to do? Fire their successful woman’s basketball and baseball coaches because they just can’t afford them anymore?

Structure contracts with a base pay plus incentives.  This structure isn’t nearly has hard as many make it out to be. 
 

btw the promotion relegation is just for football

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On 9/20/2023 at 10:45 PM, Kirbycreekpoke said:

I’m a fan of the EPL and the English FA system in general (Champoinship-National league). I lived in Europe and I’ve followed these leagues for more than twenty years and trying to implement this system in college football is as stupid as a screen door on a submarine. Let me count the ways. 
 

1) Doing it on your own without all of FBS going along is cutting your own throat.  

2) Once your team is demoted and all your players transfer out (remember the portal?) you are SOL and never recovering. Soccer teams are professional clubs with contracts and they get paid when players leave. Then they can buy new players. 

3) Recruiting will be a wasteland. Soccer clubs are just that, clubs with developmental academies. You can grown your own great players in this system. Many clubs stay economically viable by having great academies and selling young players. Then buying more players. 
 

4) The system is tied to the transfer system and economics of international Football. 


5) Lower division revenue is a fraction of Top Flight revenue.
 

6) Teams that can’t move up go broke and sell to new owners who then invest their own money to improve (Ryan and Rob). Who is going to buy your team, oh wait…nobody can. 
 

7) Scheduling can’t be balanced or fair with College football. In a soccer league, it is a true round robin. Every team plays everyone else at home and away.  Not possible in CFB and not everyone gets an equal shot. 
 

8) Smaller teams can stay relevant by competing in national open tournaments (the FA cup in England). They get to go up against the big teams and quite often knock them off. Again not possible in CFB. 

9) It’s un-American. Not in the way that you think. This system has been in place for a century and a half in England. If Man City has an awful season the fans will scream and throw a fit but they will accept the outcome. No way a college football program can survive the economic blow of a demotion. Can you imagine Bama going down as accepting it. Well, Newcastle United (4xchamps 2x runner up) did and so did Aston Villa (7xchamps 10x runner up). 
 

There’s more but I’m tired.
 
 

 

 

so much wrong in this….

1) scheduling would be more fair as all teams in the top would play each other and all teams in the bottom play each other.

2) you seem to think all players will transfer out.  Will they transfer in to the team moving up? 

3) you have no idea on the planned revenue split and the delta between leagues.  I doubt the top makes more than a 30-40% bump.  

4) never come back??  What do you think the MWC/WAC split represented?  Fresno came back just fine.

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On 9/20/2023 at 8:00 PM, jdgaucho said:

 

Ironic that rowing was eventually cut because there were too many female athletes vis a vis the rest of the student population.

Rowing only started because of the ratio.  The funny thing about Title IX as implemented in the Cal States is it only hurts women.   Because participants must match the student population percentage the first thing schools do as they become more popular is balance the ratio of men and women.  

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On 9/21/2023 at 2:24 AM, OzzyOzz said:

My question is, who are these people writing this and why do they get paid to throw out ideas that might change people's lives?

The Pac was the public ivy league of the West and they will fight it all the way up to retain that status, even if they have to drag up 10 schools with them to do so.

It's patronizing to be presented with NFL2kFifa weekend league type conference formats, and in the national media regardless. Do these people not get embarrassed? They talk as if there is no fight to be had. Have you ever met a coug? People are way too many steps ahead. The pac2 will affirm their assets first and then they will affirm their academic standing. It will hope to retain that stature and beyond anything, that will be the first priority. Not money. Not football.

And so,

My questions are..

..what exactly is the relationship between the the cfb board and the NCAA? 

How does voting work with each and how are the pac 2 potentially impacted? 

And with money?

I have a general idea as to what those answers are but also I pay a lot more attention than most obviously. 

A journalist might try to write an article in that vein then, instead of whatever hypothetical Cinderella rabbit hole football anime drama of theirs that they want to make reality.

And with chatgpt, they can do it in 10 mins. It's easier than ever to make sense, it's a wonder why people still insist on not doing so....

I'm trying to convince myself that absurdity is part of the process here though..

Carry on..

if it makes you feel any better if you're under 40 you'll probably live long enough to see television revenues collapse and another drastic realignment of conferences based on cost/location again

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 9/20/2023 at 11:45 PM, Kirbycreekpoke said:

I’m a fan of the EPL and the English FA system in general (Champoinship-National league). I lived in Europe and I’ve followed these leagues for more than twenty years and trying to implement this system in college football is as stupid as a screen door on a submarine. Let me count the ways. 
 

1) Doing it on your own without all of FBS going along is cutting your own throat.  

2) Once your team is demoted and all your players transfer out (remember the portal?) you are SOL and never recovering. Soccer teams are professional clubs with contracts and they get paid when players leave. Then they can buy new players. 

3) Recruiting will be a wasteland. Soccer clubs are just that, clubs with developmental academies. You can grown your own great players in this system. Many clubs stay economically viable by having great academies and selling young players. Then buying more players. 
 

4) The system is tied to the transfer system and economics of international Football. 


5) Lower division revenue is a fraction of Top Flight revenue.
 

6) Teams that can’t move up go broke and sell to new owners who then invest their own money to improve (Ryan and Rob). Who is going to buy your team, oh wait…nobody can. 
 

7) Scheduling can’t be balanced or fair with College football. In a soccer league, it is a true round robin. Every team plays everyone else at home and away.  Not possible in CFB and not everyone gets an equal shot. 
 

8) Smaller teams can stay relevant by competing in national open tournaments (the FA cup in England). They get to go up against the big teams and quite often knock them off. Again not possible in CFB. 

9) It’s un-American. Not in the way that you think. This system has been in place for a century and a half in England. If Man City has an awful season the fans will scream and throw a fit but they will accept the outcome. No way a college football program can survive the economic blow of a demotion. Can you imagine Bama going down as accepting it. Well, Newcastle United (4xchamps 2x runner up) did and so did Aston Villa (7xchamps 10x runner up). 
 

There’s more but I’m tired.
 
 

 

 

Thank you...even though your spot on rebuttal won't put this promotion/relegation nonsense to rest! 

 

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On 9/21/2023 at 8:48 AM, OzzyOzz said:

I just realized that all of this might make me drop my American citizenship all together, sooner rather than later.

I'll be a member, no matter what they choose. I already am. 

So now I'll probably end up finishing up my adventures elsewhere ...I don't need America like that. Way to ruin a good thing people, lol. Think I'm headed to Europe now.

This is done, apparently.

People want to make stupid decisions? Now I have to move this trillion dollar industry straight to England just because of bs like this. 

It is what it is. Feel like I'm being excluded from the club, and so be it. I'm a winner by nature and if you want to stand in my way, I'll welcome that challenge. Kings College of London it is...+++++ a duck lol. Bye.

 

 

 

 

What is done?

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