wolfpack1 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 2:01 PM, 818SUDSFan said: That's an excellent question. However, there are several steps to be completed before that's decided. As I understand it, the very first hurdle is George Koughkough pimping for the 10 schools which left the Pac. Most of the speculation I've seen is that the twins will again clean their clock with the TRO turning into a permanent injunction with clarification that any action taken will require all 12 "Pac" schools to agree. If that permanent injunction is granted, because the departing 10 (and particuarly U$C) won't want the discovery process to begin and because the twins will have leverage over the other 10, settlement discussions will ensue and at least half of the Pac-12's treasury - if that's the right word - will go to the twins. Then the twins will immediately fire good 'ol GK and the very deserving Gloria Nevarez will be named commissioner of the Pac while still remaining commissioner of the MWC. Even then, the new conference setup will have to be approved in some manner. My guess on that is it will be decided in what will likely be a contentious private meeting (neither conference is a public entity so they can do business in private). When the voters come out of their meeting, although it won't necessarily be the truth, Nevarez will announce that the 14 have unanimously approved the new plan. Not until after that will the issue you raise be decided. No one involved in the court case wants discovery however again, some discovery people are waiting for probably won't be in that especially if a lot of it was in phone calls. Pretty much they would have to expand the case to get everything people are looking for. However a permanent injunction would be painful for WSU and OSU because doesn't solve the issues that were brought up but second unless there is unanimous agreement really no Pac business would get done until August of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorTyme Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 6:07 PM, SteedLaw said: Yep. Which is my point exactly and which is why it is not getting off the ground. No one is going to give a rat’s ass about a Western-only relegated league with FCS and low-tier CUSA teams as filler. I can’t even believe I need to say it, but that is moronic. It would need to be a BOR league with established FBS athletic departments that bring a national interest to the relegation…or it is DOA. I'm hearing the NCAA is asking for help from the Federal Government. I don't know the details but from what I gathered is a College Ladies Volleyball want their NIL deals to the comparable to Men's teams like Football and Basketball. The equal amount of paying scholarships between Mens and Womens sports, Title IX strikes again. So, knowing that's coming down the road, is everyone ready to pay more for all sports in NIL deals? Relegation grading all sports might be worst for WSU/OSU because are not powerhouses in Oly sports either. WSU and OSU better be careful what they are considering, because they DJ U and Cam Ward will not be there forever. So are they going to like it when they get relegated down and lose money. Don't forget the MWC is on the rise, and it won't take long before WSU/OSU end up in down years. Look at this Potential future Football only grading metric. In 2026 it could be: PAC: Boise State Fresno State Air Force San Diego State Wyoming San Jose State Colorado State Utah State MWC: Oregon State Washington State Hawaii Nevada UNLV New Mexico Expansion team #1 Expansion Team #2 Are WSU and OSU going to be fine with this? They really don't understand the MWC attitude, we are the one folks write off. But we don't fold like a lawn chair, we play for keeps until the end of the game. I like the competition aspect of the relegation conferences because it drives teams to perform better but is WSU/OSU going to be Ok with it during their down years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Some tidbits came out today: The Washington St AD was asked again today about the litigation going on, and said he expects it to last weeks to months, and the loose October 1st deadline to have something decided was probably more hopeful than anything And Oregon St feels they can make a two-team conference happen for 2024. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 4:57 PM, WarriorTyme said: I'm hearing the NCAA is asking for help from the Federal Government. I don't know the details but from what I gathered is a College Ladies Volleyball want their NIL deals to the comparable to Men's teams like Football and Basketball. The equal amount of paying scholarships between Mens and Womens sports, Title IX strikes again. So, knowing that's coming down the road, is everyone ready to pay more for all sports in NIL deals? Relegation grading all sports might be worst for WSU/OSU because are not powerhouses in Oly sports either. WSU and OSU better be careful what they are considering, because they DJ U and Cam Ward will not be there forever. So are they going to like it when they get relegated down and lose money. Don't forget the MWC is on the rise, and it won't take long before WSU/OSU end up in down years. Look at this Potential future Football only grading metric. In 2026 it could be: PAC: Boise State Fresno State Air Force San Diego State Wyoming San Jose State Colorado State Utah State MWC: Oregon State Washington State Hawaii Nevada UNLV New Mexico Expansion team #1 Expansion Team #2 Are WSU and OSU going to be fine with this? They really don't understand the MWC attitude, we are the one folks write off. But we don't fold like a lawn chair, we play for keeps until the end of the game. I like the competition aspect of the relegation conferences because it drives teams to perform better but is WSU/OSU going to be Ok with it during their down years? NCAA asked for help earlier this year from Federal Government with regards to the NIL, Title IX and other matters or maybe guidance as this is fairly new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818SUDSFan Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 4:40 PM, wolfpack1 said: No one involved in the court case wants discovery however again, some discovery people are waiting for probably won't be in that especially if a lot of it was in phone calls. Pretty much they would have to expand the case to get everything people are looking for. However a permanent injunction would be painful for WSU and OSU because doesn't solve the issues that were brought up but second unless there is unanimous agreement really no Pac business would get done until August of next year. In Canzano's column today, he mentioned having contacted a retired ESPN executive by the name of Dave Brown to get his take on OSU and WSU. Brown told him it would be easy as pie for the two to fill in their football schedule for merely the 2024 season because there are so many schools that still haven't scheduled 12 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:06 PM, 818SUDSFan said: In Canzano's column today, he mentioned having contacted a retired ESPN executive by the name of Dave Brown to get his take on OSU and WSU. Brown told him it would be easy as pie for the two to fill in their football schedule for merely the 2024 season because there are so many schools that still haven't scheduled 12 games. Ah he's weird lol. I miss that fight he was having with the Arizona beat writer though those were fun reads. But like I said before if you are a good AD or University President they should have a couple of plans out depending on what goes on for 2024. I do believe there are four less schools now that what posted two weeks ago of who needs games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR_Poke Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 7:58 PM, wolfpack1 said: Some tidbits came out today: The Washington St AD was asked again today about the litigation going on, and said he expects it to last weeks to months, and the loose October 1st deadline to have something decided was probably more hopeful than anything And Oregon St feels they can make a two-team conference happen for 2024. How are they going to make a 2 team conference work even for 1 season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818SUDSFan Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:01 PM, wolfpack1 said: NCAA asked for help earlier this year from Federal Government with regards to the NIL, Title IX and other matters or maybe guidance as this is fairly new. Title IX is a big problem. When the Civil Rights Act was amended to add Title IX in 1972, the NCAA controlled all telecasts of football games and its contract paid the NCAA only $12.1M: https://vault.si.com/vault/1971/02/01/a-grim-run-to-fiscal-daylight . That's only about $88M in today's money, or not even double what every B1G school will earn during this academic year. So back then, it would have cost the average big boy school only a small fraction as much to fund women's sports equal to men's compared to today. Add to that the cost of covering medical bills for football injuries now that players are so must bigger than they were back then and it's high time that Congress amends Title IX to reflect those huge changes occurring over the last half century. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:19 PM, HR_Poke said: How are they going to make a 2 team conference work even for 1 season? Its not impossible, 7-8 schools could make a three way deal with NMSU as well to take some of the schools they have to cut off their schedule and fill in the rest on that. Olympic sports they have time to do as well or could get an agreement as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgaucho Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:25 PM, 818SUDSFan said: Title IX is a big problem. When the Civil Rights Act was amended to add Title IX in 1972, the NCAA controlled all telecasts of football games and its contract paid the NCAA only $12.1M: https://vault.si.com/vault/1971/02/01/a-grim-run-to-fiscal-daylight . That's only about $88M in today's money, or not even double what every B1G school will earn during this academic year. So back then, it would have cost the average big boy school only a small fraction as much to fund women's sports equal to men's compared to today. Add to that the cost of covering medical bills for football injuries now that players are so must bigger than they were back then and it's high time that Congress amends Title IX to reflect those huge changes occurring over the last half century. Any attempts to modify Title IX will be met with fierce resistance. I have no faith this modern Congress has the stomach for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:25 PM, 818SUDSFan said: Title IX is a big problem. When the Civil Rights Act was amended to add Title IX in 1972, the NCAA controlled all telecasts of football games and its contract paid the NCAA only $12.1M: https://vault.si.com/vault/1971/02/01/a-grim-run-to-fiscal-daylight . That's only about $88M in today's money, or not even double what every B1G school will earn during this academic year. So back then, it would have cost the average big boy school only a small fraction as much to fund women's sports equal to men's compared to today. Add to that the cost of covering medical bills for football injuries now that players are so must bigger than they were back then and it's high time that Congress amends Title IX to reflect those huge changes occurring over the last half century. Yea but honestly I wouldn't be hoping for a lot of help from Feds about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyobraska Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:57 PM, WarriorTyme said: I'm hearing the NCAA is asking for help from the Federal Government. I don't know the details but from what I gathered is a College Ladies Volleyball want their NIL deals to the comparable to Men's teams like Football and Basketball. The equal amount of paying scholarships between Mens and Womens sports, Title IX strikes again. So, knowing that's coming down the road, is everyone ready to pay more for all sports in NIL deals? Relegation grading all sports might be worst for WSU/OSU because are not powerhouses in Oly sports either. WSU and OSU better be careful what they are considering, because they DJ U and Cam Ward will not be there forever. So are they going to like it when they get relegated down and lose money. Don't forget the MWC is on the rise, and it won't take long before WSU/OSU end up in down years. Look at this Potential future Football only grading metric. In 2026 it could be: PAC: Boise State Fresno State Air Force San Diego State Wyoming San Jose State Colorado State Utah State MWC: Oregon State Washington State Hawaii Nevada UNLV New Mexico Expansion team #1 Expansion Team #2 Are WSU and OSU going to be fine with this? They really don't understand the MWC attitude, we are the one folks write off. But we don't fold like a lawn chair, we play for keeps until the end of the game. I like the competition aspect of the relegation conferences because it drives teams to perform better but is WSU/OSU going to be Ok with it during their down years? I don't know how they could compel the same NIL deals. Players from the same football teams don't always get the same deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgaucho Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 For Title IX to be fixed @818SUDSFan, I think we'll need more women's teams being cut across the nation to meet compliance, like what happened to SDSU's women's rowing. That was so rare, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headbutt Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 6:34 PM, Wyobraska said: I don't know how they could compel the same NIL deals. Players from the same football teams don't always get the same deals. They got no shot. NIL is not controlled by the NCAA, it's member schools, or congress. It's a private agreement between an athlete and a business. Title IX has absolutely no bearing on NIL. There's a lot to address with NIL, but none of it has anything to do with Tittle IX. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteedLaw Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:25 PM, 818SUDSFan said: C'mon man, you've got a brain, use it. "With FCS AND low-tier CUSA teams?" Other then the Boise associate AD, nobody has mentioned such a setup. Instead, there would be two 8-team divisions or whatever name is given to them. Accordingly, only two FCS or CUSA schools would be added and to my understanding, that would be for football only. And if you're actually concerned that one of the two additions would manage to lift itself up to the P-8 division, see this: http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm If USU or any other current MWC school is shaking in its boots about this idea, they should investigate bailing to CUSA or the MAC with all possible haste. I was responding, in part, to the Boise State AD’s article where he was talking about 24 teams. I should have made that more clear. And, I have yet to hear any rational argument as to how this could work? I still don’t see how this could even work with comprehensive athletic departments and multiple sports. I mean, unless schools would agree to be relegated or promoted as one based solely on football’s performance, but then who on their right mind under this model is paying any amount of money whatsoever for their non-football sports programs? This would single-handedly kill the quality of any non-football programs these schools have. And, the NCAA rules do not allow you to have football only (single sport) conferences. Just not seeing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utgrizfan Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 11:24 AM, sactowndog said: That is assuming 9 don’t come together and vote to disband. If they get 9 to vote on disbanding (still think a simple merger is more likely one way or another) I think the remaining 3 would try and rebuild rather then go to CUSA as someone else mentioned. From the different lists I've seen on here and other forums it seems that SJSU, Nevada and New Mexico would be on the chopping block more then the rest of the schools. They'd just have to add: NMSU, UTEP, Montana, MSU, UC-Davis (or) Sac State, Idaho That would get then to 9 teams with a full 8 game Conference Schedule, could also potentially add the following either as Football/Oly only or as full members: SHSU, Tarleton State, NDSU, SDSU, GCU Regardless of what happens or whatever combination of teams are left behind I feel as long as the MWC has anywhere from 3-6 schools (again not a very likely scenario in my opinion) they will be able to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew_Poke Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 5:36 PM, EvilPoke said: Based off last year's standings, the Pac-8 would be: - WSU - OSU - Fresno - Boise - Air Force - SJSU - SDSU and Wyoming. Wyoming getting into the PAC before CSU and UNLV? CSU is ranked too high. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalinasSpartan Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 10:07 AM, RSF said: In the EPL, relegated clubs get parachute payments the year(s) after relegation to lessen budgetary problems. I believe those payments are over 3 years and decrease each year - unless, of course, said team immediately gets promoted back up. In the case of the PacMWC proposal, the dollar amounts in question aren't nearly as big as the EPL. There have been multiple attempts (one just recently) in Europe to create a 'European Super League' that would have much more limited pro/rel because - stop if this sounds familiar - the big clubs want more money and keep it among themselves. They have invariably failed because of the political and public backlash. It's a workable idea, but it's unlikely to happen because of the fear factor, not the money or logistics. European football clubs aren’t subsidizing entire athletic departments. They are just, you know, football clubs. If they get relegated they can always reduce their payroll by selling players. Sure it would suck, but it’s doable. For an athletic department there is no player payroll to reduce, it’s mainly coaches. A school gets relegated in football after 5 years in the top league what are they going to do? Fire their successful woman’s basketball and baseball coaches because they just can’t afford them anymore? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteedLaw Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 7:18 PM, SalinasSpartan said: European football clubs aren’t subsidizing entire athletic departments. They are just, you know, football clubs. If they get relegated they can always reduce their payroll by selling players. Sure it would suck, but it’s doable. For an athletic department there is no player payroll to reduce, it’s mainly coaches. A school gets relegated in football after 5 years in the top league what are they going to do? Fire their successful woman’s basketball and baseball coaches because they just can’t afford them anymore? Yep, this. The people pitching this have not even remotely thought this through. I have yet to hear how this could even work. And it is even worse. This poorly concocted scheme does not take into consideration the fact that nobody in this league would spend a single dime more than they absolutely had to on non-football athletics—and that would be true even for the winning teams. It would take all of two years for the PAC/MWC to become the worst league in the country for all non-football sports. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSF Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 8:18 PM, SalinasSpartan said: European football clubs aren’t subsidizing entire athletic departments. They are just, you know, football clubs. If they get relegated they can always reduce their payroll by selling players. Sure it would suck, but it’s doable. For an athletic department there is no player payroll to reduce, it’s mainly coaches. A school gets relegated in football after 5 years in the top league what are they going to do? Fire their successful woman’s basketball and baseball coaches because they just can’t afford them anymore? Yeah, they are - Tell that to the youth academies and womens teams at all those Euro clubs. No pay-to-play in Europe. All subsidized by the senior team. Funny how people running this down because of the money when they have no idea how the money would be structured. Because its just an idea right now. 1 1 Quote It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...