wolfpack1 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 5:37 PM, Brew_Poke said: Right, with the departing schools' legal argument based up the well known legal doctrine of take-backsies. As @Headbutthas said and I have said as well, when something goes before a judge and comes down to wording you don't know what they are going to do. But again this is only the first hearing, if decides either way there will be an appeal but then another hearing whether to make the injunction permanent as well. Working with judges and court system for almost 20 years, nothing is black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utgrizfan Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 5:03 PM, Headbutt said: While we're looking at things that killed a conference. Let's not forget the rampant expansion of the original WAC. It's about finding the right balance and I think 16 teams would be the sweet spot with 2 Texas schools as would give you a 3rd (4th if you count Hawaii) Timezone and new slots for some games. However ONLY if the $$ is there, otherwise get Gonzaga (or another good Oly school) and hold at 14 and call it a day. Why I think UTSA and UNT would be the best options from a Market standpoint, less chance of diluting payments. Texas State is a maybe in that regard, does anyone know if they fall under Austin (#35l or San Antonio (#31) market? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevadaFan Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 5:58 PM, utgrizfan said: It's about finding the right balance and I think 16 teams would be the sweet spot with 2 Texas schools as would give you a 3rd (4th if you count Hawaii) Timezone and new slots for some games. However ONLY if the $$ is there, otherwise get Gonzaga (or another good Oly school) and hold at 14 and call it a day. Why I think UTSA and UNT would be the best options from a Market standpoint, less chance of diluting payments. Texas State is a maybe in that regard, does anyone know if they fall under Austin (#35l or San Antonio (#31) market? There is no money there. End of argument. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headbutt Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 6:58 PM, utgrizfan said: It's about finding the right balance and I think 16 teams would be the sweet spot with 2 Texas schools as would give you a 3rd (4th if you count Hawaii) Timezone and new slots for some games. A. Not sold on the need for the central time zone. B. I don't think there's anybody available in the central or eastern time zone that increases our payday more than they cost us. C. I don't see 16 as a sweet spot. Gloria, when asked, mentioned that everyone seems to be going to 16, so that's probably ideal but she wasn't sure. Commish not married to 16. Especially since she said that prior to the AAC grabbing a couple. D. We're very well situated to win an autobid to the CFP. I don't see what adding teams that will never win that autobid does to make it more likely for the MWC overall. No, they don't improve our SOS. Winning OOC games improves our SOS. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 For bigger conferences I think it works because of money, for smaller conferences it really doesn't work as well for the same reason money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Convert Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 5:27 PM, Headbutt said: Courts love precedents. If the courts find in favor of the departing 10 Pac members, then the MWC bylaws become meaningless, along with everyone else's. I don't see it happening, but it would have huge ripples. Exit rules and fees, could it affect GOR's(?), etc. Nah, one decision? Not really on something like this. I’m sure there’s been other decisions in the past to go off of. Judges tend to go on what the industry standard is and what is determined as reasonable. Certainly it would be a factor, but the judge will look at the industry standard in all conferences in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 6:07 PM, Headbutt said: A. Not sold on the need for the central time zone. B. I don't think there's anybody available in the central or eastern time zone that increases our payday more than they cost us. C. I don't see 16 as a sweet spot. Gloria, when asked, mentioned that everyone seems to be going to 16, so that's probably ideal but she wasn't sure. Commish not married to 16. Especially since she said that prior to the AAC grabbing a couple. D. We're very well situated to win an autobid to the CFP. I don't see what adding teams that will never win that autobid does to make it more likely for the MWC overall. No, they don't improve our SOS. Winning OOC games improves our SOS. The only school off the top of my head that would be an eye riser could be Memphis but that won't be happening but just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utgrizfan Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 7:07 PM, wolfpack1 said: For bigger conferences I think it works because of money, for smaller conferences it really doesn't work as well for the same reason money. Not at all wrong, why the $$ would have to be there for it to be possible. Earlier an Article/Tweet mentioned how 10 million per team seems to be the max the MWC+PAC could achieve, why if expansion outside of Wazzu and OSU is pursued I feel it'd have to be primarily market based. UTSA in particular being considered an up and coming team in recent years is a just a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 5:28 PM, Brew_Poke said: There's no more money for 2-4 additional schools. We already have two more coming in (Wazzu $ ORST) that we have to split revenue with. You guys are so eager to destroy the cash flow of the members here it's insane. Army for Christ's Sake. Gonzaga, M-Fing North Texas. Laughable, man! I mean not to be a dick buy why are Cowboy and Nevada fans bringing up no room at the trough for additional schools? San Antonio MSA: 2.6M. DMA: 31 FPI:1.9 Memphis MSA: 1.34M DMA: 51 FPI: 1.3 New Orleans MSA: 1.26M DMA: 50 FPI: 3.8 Wyoming State: 581K DMA: duplicate FPI:-3.3 Reno MSA: 531k DMA: 102 FPI: -14.1 I mean good god. No one but Robert is saying to kick people out but here is the range FPI: New Mexico: -18.0 CSU: -15.3 AF: -5.1 Wyoming: -3.3 1 1 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Convert Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 6:07 PM, Headbutt said: A. Not sold on the need for the central time zone. B. I don't think there's anybody available in the central or eastern time zone that increases our payday more than they cost us. C. I don't see 16 as a sweet spot. Gloria, when asked, mentioned that everyone seems to be going to 16, so that's probably ideal but she wasn't sure. Commish not married to 16. Especially since she said that prior to the AAC grabbing a couple. D. We're very well situated to win an autobid to the CFP. I don't see what adding teams that will never win that autobid does to make it more likely for the MWC overall. No, they don't improve our SOS. Winning OOC games improves our SOS. If Memphis moves the needle on a TV contract, then 15 makes sense. Same with UTSA. I know you don’t like it, but tough. If Gonzaga wants in, no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 I mean getting an injunction to stop the meeting on Wednesday is one thing about this filing and there are others as well. Judge could possibly be like granting the injunction until we get the other merits in the lawsuit figured out. Kind of kicking the can down the road a little further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorTyme Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 I recall some former PAC12 fans posting here that the outgoing members would like to preserve the PAC12 and help WSU/OSU. But the reality is that the backstabbing continues with these schools. They wanted to hold a meeting to vote on PAC12 to vote possibly dissolved the PAC12 to split up the assets? WSU/OSU had to file for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) to abstain from any voting, which will be granted by the courts next week. This shouldn't be too hard to prove damages and a precedence has already been set by removing USC, UCLA and Colorado from the board. Everyone has stated that this is a solid case for WSU/OSU and I agree with them. I think there will be a settlement in favor of WSU/OSU by either the lawyers coming to an agreement or the courts giving a favorable ruling. This might not be a 2-year court battle as some think? I think resolution will be swift. Smart move by WSU/OSU to cutoff Klown Kliavkoff and 10 former PAC 12 schools from acting in their own interest and their new conference interest. How does anybody know that the B10, B12 and ACC would have strongly suggested to their incoming new conference members to vote to dissolve the PAC12. Effectively, killing off and reducing the money and power to the P4 forever, and those outgoing members also get an asset split with that killing off of the PAC12. That is 2 very powerful motives right there alone. The MWC/PAC Full Merger will happen and the new PACX will be born in 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew_Poke Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 6:38 PM, OzzyOzz said: The word "automatically" in the bylaws make it a cut and dry case. BUT.. ..there are problems still. It says that with independence or re-allegiance assets are forfeited. Scheduling ooc games with the MWC will be deemed to be a merger in all but name, and it will underline the need for considerations to those bylaws as necessary, in such extreme extenuating circumstances as this has turned out to be.. And independence is not an option either, it says it right there. And if that is the rebuff, the counter suit is still a claim for the ongoing damages in proportion to payouts as justified by the agreed upon bylaws. What might that look like will probably just be mediated, and will be with consideration to the then situation. It might be a lot just because of how the words were written. Official notices are impossible with automatic qualifiers. The king is dead..long live the king etc..that's hard to get around. I won't outlay the departing members counter suit as it will end with the same conclusion; a grant of extenuating circumstances...but it could result in 4 schools squeezing out 8 and making out like bandits lol.. But they won't agree to it, so mediation it is. And the scales are set. $ . Can someone translate this beatnik? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 5:37 PM, Brew_Poke said: Right, with the departing schools' legal argument based up the well known legal doctrine of take-backsies. I’m on WSU’s side. My wife is a WSU alum. The filed suit for a reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Convert Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 6:11 PM, sactowndog said: I mean not to be a dick buy why are Cowboy and Nevada fans bringing up no room at the trough for additional schools? San Antonio MSA: 2.6M. DMA: 31 FPI:1.9 Memphis MSA: 1.34M DMA: 51 FPI: 1.3 New Orleans MSA: 1.26M DMA: 50 FPI: 3.8 Wyoming State: 581K DMA: duplicate FPI:-3.3 Reno MSA: 531k DMA: 102 FPI: -14.1 I mean good god. No one but Robert is saying to kick people out but here is the range FPI: New Mexico: -18.0 CSU: -15.3 AF: -5.1 Wyoming: -3.3 Dude, bringing up FPI is incredibly stupid unless it’s averaged out over many years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew_Poke Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 7:11 PM, sactowndog said: I mean not to be a dick buy why are Cowboy and Nevada fans bringing up no room at the trough for additional schools? San Antonio MSA: 2.6M. DMA: 31 FPI:1.9 Memphis MSA: 1.34M DMA: 51 FPI: 1.3 New Orleans MSA: 1.26M DMA: 50 FPI: 3.8 Wyoming State: 581K DMA: duplicate FPI:-3.3 Reno MSA: 531k DMA: 102 FPI: -14.1 I mean good god. No one but Robert is saying to kick people out but here is the range FPI: New Mexico: -18.0 CSU: -15.3 AF: -5.1 Wyoming: -3.3 Probably because Nevada and Wyoming are already in the MW, duh. It's a Mensa convention in this thread. Got any more straw men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack1 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 6:11 PM, sactowndog said: I mean not to be a dick buy why are Cowboy and Nevada fans bringing up no room at the trough for additional schools? San Antonio MSA: 2.6M. DMA: 31 FPI:1.9 Memphis MSA: 1.34M DMA: 51 FPI: 1.3 New Orleans MSA: 1.26M DMA: 50 FPI: 3.8 Wyoming State: 581K DMA: duplicate FPI:-3.3 Reno MSA: 531k DMA: 102 FPI: -14.1 I mean good god. No one but Robert is saying to kick people out but here is the range FPI: New Mexico: -18.0 CSU: -15.3 AF: -5.1 Wyoming: -3.3 Because MWC was told by their partners when approached last year there was no one out there that moved the needle for the conference for payment. And you won't invited more schools if there is not an increase in TV money or enough to move the needle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headbutt Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 7:14 PM, Nevada Convert said: If Memphis moves the needle on a TV contract, then 15 makes sense. Same with UTSA. I know you don’t like it, but tough. If Gonzaga wants in, no brainer. Gonzaga, LMAO! They are completely meaningless in this discussion. It would be fantastic to add them, but they bring little financially and don't play football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Convert Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 6:17 PM, Brew_Poke said: Can someone translate this beatnik? He thinks the twins vs. 10’s is going to be settled with a mediator instead by a judge in court. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headbutt Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 7:09 PM, Nevada Convert said: Nah, one decision? Not really on something like this. I’m sure there’s been other decisions in the past to go off of. Judges tend to go on what the industry standard is and what is determined as reasonable. Certainly it would be a factor, but the judge will look at the industry standard in all conferences in my opinion. If they go by the industry standard, then it's already settled and the twins win. My concern is that the judge will set a new standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...