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Conference Realignment thread

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On 9/8/2023 at 2:10 PM, Ram1554 said:

It may have already been discussed in the last 1,000+ pages, but what is stopping all 12 MWC members from dissolving our conference via an immediate vote? It says right in the bylaws that we are able to dissolve the conference as an entity. Would it just be that we owe damages to our current TV partners for not providing them content the last two years of our contract? But if all 12 of us are essentially conference-less after this school year, the PAC could take us all in next summer and we could carry on under the PAC banner.

Alternatively, who exactly are we beholden to for exit fees? If we all decide to give notice to “leave” the conference and then each get invited to the PAC, wouldn’t there be no one left in the MWC to collect exit fees thus rendering them moot. 
 

I may be going in circles here, but I am having a hard time concluding why this reverse merger stuff needs to be such a challenge. 

Dissolve the MWC and everybody join a Pac that may or may not exist when the courts are done?  The entirety of our leverage in this game is based on us being a unified conference.  When the time comes, we can always do that, but our status as a conference is the linchpin that holds the whole process together for now.

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On 9/8/2023 at 4:30 PM, Headbutt said:

Dissolve the MWC and everybody join a Pac that may or may not exist when the courts are done?  The entirety of our leverage in this game is based on us being a unified conference.  When the time comes, we can always do that, but our status as a conference is the linchpin that holds the whole process together for now.

He said "unified". 🤪

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On 9/8/2023 at 12:33 PM, RebelRobert said:

PAC-2 will want to have a commitment in hand (when going to court) showing that they have invited others schools to the PAC-12 that are ready to join within the mandated NCAA time frame.

PAC-12
Oregon St
Washington St
UNLV
SDSU
Fresno St
Gonzaga (All Sports but Football)
Hawaii (Football Only)

Boise St
Colorado St
New Mexico
Tulane
Memphis
Wichita St (All Sports but Football)
Air Force (Football Only)

hey bitch...yer never getting away from yer daddy :str8pimp:

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On 9/8/2023 at 2:05 PM, wolfpack1 said:

Why would MWC vote to dissolve the conference if they have no deal or such in place about joining another conference? There would also be the legal issues in regards to TV partner and such. Then if we dissolve some schools would loose money in that circumstance. Without a invite or such schools would become independent no TV deal or anything like that. Then Pac would invite schools they want while leaving other schools out which then puts those schools in further trouble as they would have no conference to where they would have to continue as independent or maybe go to FCS.  Then you will have lawsuits from TV partners about what happened.

Thing is you can't dissolve a conference in a reverse merger before having a deal with another conference you are going to as let's say in this part MWC could bring some of their assets with them to Pac-12 which could also include a TV deal.

I’m not advocating for anyone to get left out. I am asking what are the potential holdups for OSU/WSU not being able to simply invite all 12 MWC members to join the PAC next summer? Thus negating exit fees. 
 

It just seems simpler and more beneficial for us all to carry on under the PAC banner as soon as possible. And I’m not talking about legally merging the two conference entities, which may take awhile to sort out. Instead, I’m referring to us all jumping over to the PAC after this year and leaving the MWC for dead. The only downside I see is potentially getting sued by our current TV partners. 

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On 9/8/2023 at 2:25 PM, masterfrog said:

I wonder if the PAC 12 can even have a legal meeting. I have served on several boards and they all require a quorum to conduct business. It is possible that there are not enough remaining members to constitute a quorum. 

We will see what the courts say, but I would think you would just need OSU and WSU in attendance to have a quorum because they are the only eligible voting members. So you’d have 100% of voting members with those two present. 

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On 9/8/2023 at 3:41 PM, Ram1554 said:

We will see what the courts say, but I would think you would just need OSU and WSU in attendance to have a quorum because they are the only eligible voting members. So you’d have 100% of voting members with those two present. 

That is exactly what the legal filing is all about.  The departing members still think they have voting rights.  Nothing can go forward until that is settled.

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On 9/8/2023 at 4:41 PM, Ram1554 said:

We will see what the courts say, but I would think you would just need OSU and WSU in attendance to have a quorum because they are the only eligible voting members. So you’d have 100% of voting members with those two present. 

I was on a county appraisal board once and we had three of our five members resign. We had to wait until their replacements were elected before we could meet again because we had to have four members present to make a quorum. It took eight months until the elections were done to replace those board members.  Sometimes the rules in place also stipulate a minimum number present to make a quorum. 

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8. Quorum. A majority of the entire CEO Group must be present to provide a quorum for the transaction of business at any meeting of the CEO Group. As used in this Constitution and Bylaws, “entire CEO Group” means the total number of CEO Group members entitled to vote. (8/85, 12/95, 6/10)

 

https://pac-12compliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2021-22-P12-Handbook.V1.pdf

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In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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On 9/8/2023 at 2:48 PM, masterfrog said:

I was on a county appraisal board once and we had three of our five members resign. We had to wait until their replacements were elected before we could meet again because we had to have four members present to make a quorum. It took eight months until the elections were done to replace those board members.  Sometimes the rules in place also stipulate a minimum number present to make a quorum. 

Here are the PAC12 bylaws: https://pac-12compliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2021-22-P12-Handbook.V1.pdf

"8. Quorum.
A majority of the entire CEO Group must be present to provide a quorum for the transaction of business at any meeting of the CEO Group. As used in this Constitution and Bylaws, “entire CEO Group” means the total number of CEO Group members entitled to vote."

"CHAPTER 7—CONFERENCE ACTIONS 1. Action at a Meeting.
Except as otherwise provided by law or in this Constitution and Bylaws, the act of the CEO Group, the Council or a committee means action at a meeting of the CEO Group, the Council or committee by vote of a majority of the members present at the time of the vote, if a quorum is present at such time. If there are an insufficient number of votes to approve or reject an action, the Commissioner shall contact the members who were not present to obtain the outstanding vote(s) necessary to decide the issue. All responses to such inquiries must be submitted in writing to the Commissioner. "

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Doesn't the NCAA have some rules that require conferences to have a certain amount of members to exist as a "conference" ???

I realize there's a lot of legal issues to sort out, but the PAC-12 can't carry on with 2 members for very long..........unless they are granted some waiver due to the sudden defections 

Also in the branding area...........yeah, the PAc 12 has more "name recognition" than the MWC, but adding 12 MWC to the 2 PAC & calling it the PAC-12/14 is just putting lipstick on a pig & opens the future PAC-12/14/16/18/20 to derision for being a mere shell of what it once was...........so at that point, rather than being a national punchline & punching bag, wouldn't the better route be to combine the PAC orphans & the MWC into a new conference entity ?!?!?! 

Merge the PAC 2 with the MWC 12 into a new 14 school conference under a new legal entity & allow the 2 & 12 to maintain past revenues due & start the new entity with equal distribution going forward 

Division I

Under NCAA regulations, all Division I conferences defined as "multisport conferences" must meet the following criteria:[1]

  • A total of at least seven active Division I members.
  • Separate from the above, at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball.
  • Sponsorship of at least 12 NCAA Division I sports.
  • Minimum of six men's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Men's basketball is a mandatory sport, and at least seven members must sponsor that sport.
    • Non-football conferences must sponsor at least two men's team sports other than basketball.
    • At least six members must sponsor five men's sports other than basketball, including either football or two other team sports.
  • Minimum of six women's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Women's basketball is a mandatory sport, with at least seven members sponsoring that sport.
    • At least two other women's team sports must be sponsored.
    • At least six members must sponsor five women's sports other than basketball, including two other team sports. If a conference officially sponsors an NCAA "emerging sport" for women (as of 2023, acrobatics & tumbling, equestrianism, rugby union, stunt, triathlon, or wrestling), that sport will be counted if five members (instead of six) sponsor it.
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On 9/8/2023 at 2:41 PM, mugtang said:

So none of the schools have official notice?

I really want to say but I won't. There is an escape route for them, but the Pac2 would have to counter sue on the grounds of legal countenance* and be accounted for regardless in that scenario, either way a paycheck will be wrought..

by legal countenance i just mean damages due for the wider fallout and for the occurrences that have happened after the fact as fair resolution is sought..it isn't the right term for it but im not a lawyer lol

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On 9/8/2023 at 4:00 PM, UNLV2001 said:

Doesn't the NCAA have some rules that require conferences to have a certain amount of members to exist as a "conference" ???

I realize there's a lot of legal issues to sort out, but the PAC-12 can't carry on with 2 members for very long..........unless they are granted some waiver due to the sudden defections 

Also in the branding area...........yeah, the PAc 12 has more "name recognition" than the MWC, but adding 12 MWC to the 2 PAC & calling it the PAC-12/14 is just putting lipstick on a pig & opens the future PAC-12/14/16/18/20 to derision for being a mere shell of what it once was...........so at that point, rather than being a national punchline & punching bag, wouldn't the better route be to combine the PAC orphans & the MWC into a new conference entity ?!?!?! 

Merge the PAC 2 with the MWC 12 into a new 14 school conference under a new legal entity & allow the 2 & 12 to maintain past revenues due & start the new entity with equal distribution going forward 

Division I

Under NCAA regulations, all Division I conferences defined as "multisport conferences" must meet the following criteria:[1]

  • A total of at least seven active Division I members.
  • Separate from the above, at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball.
  • Sponsorship of at least 12 NCAA Division I sports.
  • Minimum of six men's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Men's basketball is a mandatory sport, and at least seven members must sponsor that sport.
    • Non-football conferences must sponsor at least two men's team sports other than basketball.
    • At least six members must sponsor five men's sports other than basketball, including either football or two other team sports.
  • Minimum of six women's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Women's basketball is a mandatory sport, with at least seven members sponsoring that sport.
    • At least two other women's team sports must be sponsored.
    • At least six members must sponsor five women's sports other than basketball, including two other team sports. If a conference officially sponsors an NCAA "emerging sport" for women (as of 2023, acrobatics & tumbling, equestrianism, rugby union, stunt, triathlon, or wrestling), that sport will be counted if five members (instead of six) sponsor it.

I dont think this would take precedence over the 2 year grace period the PAC will have to add schools. 

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On 9/8/2023 at 5:00 PM, UNLV2001 said:

Doesn't the NCAA have some rules that require conferences to have a certain amount of members to exist as a "conference" ???

I realize there's a lot of legal issues to sort out, but the PAC-12 can't carry on with 2 members for very long..........unless they are granted some waiver due to the sudden defections 

Also in the branding area...........yeah, the PAc 12 has more "name recognition" than the MWC, but adding 12 MWC to the 2 PAC & calling it the PAC-12/14 is just putting lipstick on a pig & opens the future PAC-12/14/16/18/20 to derision for being a mere shell of what it once was...........so at that point, rather than being a national punchline & punching bag, wouldn't the better route be to combine the PAC orphans & the MWC into a new conference entity ?!?!?! 

Merge the PAC 2 with the MWC 12 into a new 14 school conference under a new legal entity & allow the 2 & 12 to maintain past revenues due & start the new entity with equal distribution going forward 

Division I

Under NCAA regulations, all Division I conferences defined as "multisport conferences" must meet the following criteria:[1]

  • A total of at least seven active Division I members.
  • Separate from the above, at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball.
  • Sponsorship of at least 12 NCAA Division I sports.
  • Minimum of six men's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Men's basketball is a mandatory sport, and at least seven members must sponsor that sport.
    • Non-football conferences must sponsor at least two men's team sports other than basketball.
    • At least six members must sponsor five men's sports other than basketball, including either football or two other team sports.
  • Minimum of six women's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Women's basketball is a mandatory sport, with at least seven members sponsoring that sport.
    • At least two other women's team sports must be sponsored.
    • At least six members must sponsor five women's sports other than basketball, including two other team sports. If a conference officially sponsors an NCAA "emerging sport" for women (as of 2023, acrobatics & tumbling, equestrianism, rugby union, stunt, triathlon, or wrestling), that sport will be counted if five members (instead of six) sponsor it.

There is a 2 year grace period for compliance.

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In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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On 9/8/2023 at 4:00 PM, UNLV2001 said:

Doesn't the NCAA have some rules that require conferences to have a certain amount of members to exist as a "conference" ???

I realize there's a lot of legal issues to sort out, but the PAC-12 can't carry on with 2 members for very long..........unless they are granted some waiver due to the sudden defections 

Also in the branding area...........yeah, the PAc 12 has more "name recognition" than the MWC, but adding 12 MWC to the 2 PAC & calling it the PAC-12/14 is just putting lipstick on a pig & opens the future PAC-12/14/16/18/20 to derision for being a mere shell of what it once was...........so at that point, rather than being a national punchline & punching bag, wouldn't the better route be to combine the PAC orphans & the MWC into a new conference entity ?!?!?! 

Merge the PAC 2 with the MWC 12 into a new 14 school conference under a new legal entity & allow the 2 & 12 to maintain past revenues due & start the new entity with equal distribution going forward 

Division I

Under NCAA regulations, all Division I conferences defined as "multisport conferences" must meet the following criteria:[1]

  • A total of at least seven active Division I members.
  • Separate from the above, at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball.
  • Sponsorship of at least 12 NCAA Division I sports.
  • Minimum of six men's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Men's basketball is a mandatory sport, and at least seven members must sponsor that sport.
    • Non-football conferences must sponsor at least two men's team sports other than basketball.
    • At least six members must sponsor five men's sports other than basketball, including either football or two other team sports.
  • Minimum of six women's sports, with the following additional restrictions:
    • Women's basketball is a mandatory sport, with at least seven members sponsoring that sport.
    • At least two other women's team sports must be sponsored.
    • At least six members must sponsor five women's sports other than basketball, including two other team sports. If a conference officially sponsors an NCAA "emerging sport" for women (as of 2023, acrobatics & tumbling, equestrianism, rugby union, stunt, triathlon, or wrestling), that sport will be counted if five members (instead of six) sponsor it.

They do.  The Pac has two years to get back to 8 members to remain a viable NCAA conference.  They have time to figure this out.  They don't have time to start making schedules for the interim.

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On 9/8/2023 at 2:45 PM, Headbutt said:

That is exactly what the legal filing is all about.  The departing members still think they have voting rights.  Nothing can go forward until that is settled.

I realize that. But it sounds optimistic that the voting rights issue should be a relatively quick decision - "The filings include a request for a hearing on the temporary restraining order on Monday, which could give clarity before the scheduled meeting two days later." So this may be concluded by early next week.

After that, OSU/WSU should be able to control the destiny of the PAC and they would be the sole decision makers in the CEO Group. As I said before, they should start with inviting all 12 MWC members to begin PAC conference play in fall 2024. No merging conference entities, just a straight invitation for all of us.  

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On 9/8/2023 at 4:19 PM, Ram1554 said:

I realize that. But it sounds optimistic that the voting rights issue should be a relatively quick decision - "The filings include a request for a hearing on the temporary restraining order on Monday, which could give clarity before the scheduled meeting two days later." So this may be concluded by early next week.

After that, OSU/WSU should be able to control the destiny of the PAC and they would be the sole decision makers in the CEO Group. As I said before, they should start with inviting all 12 MWC members to begin PAC conference play in fall 2024. No merging conference entities, just a straight invitation for all of us.  

And that would work, but until the rights to the assets and liabilities are settled I don't think they want us there.  I'm not sure we want to be there until we know for sure we're not assuming any Pac liabilities.  I think a scheduling agreement for now allows all the legal stuff to get settled while we start the process of merging...one direction or the other.

The smartest thing the MWC can do is put out the welcome mat, bake some cookies, and decide who's moving into who's house once the remodeling is finished.

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