alum93 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 11:09 AM, wolf from 73 said: Further expansion beyond the P2 will depend on the contract and value of adding anybody else. It will be dictated and directed by the media people and not presidents and conference commissioners. Although they hold the final vote to add they are not the mover behind conference expansion. Its all about the money. It's really hard for me to see any contract making it worthwhile to break up the AAC and MWC and join the P2. I just don't see the matchups or fan bases to justify it. Even Corvallis and Pullman are tiny markets relative to the big boys. Would they be a great fit for the MWC? Absolutely. But would they help bring in a huge jump in tv revenue from an ESPN, FOX, or whoever? I guess it just doesn't seem like it. All signs are pointing to a reverse merger with MWC for a solid regional conference and AAC adding Army at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSF Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 11:57 AM, sactowndog said: We would not be the clear 5th best without Memphis and Tulane. That reason is why they both must be included. The clear top 3 are Memphis, Tulane, UTSA. Both Tulane and Memphis have a higher power rating than any MWC school and Tulane is higher than WSU. Last year. Always dangerous to judge such things on 1 year. And last year the top 3 were actually Tulane, Troy, and UTSA. The previous year Cincy, Houston and Louisiana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_season#Rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_season#Rankings Quote It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteedLaw Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:57 AM, sactowndog said: We would not be the clear 5th best without Memphis and Tulane. That reason is why they both must be included. The clear top 3 are Memphis, Tulane, UTSA. Both Tulane and Memphis have a higher power rating than any MWC school and Tulane is higher than WSU. Then we should do what it takes to finalize the reverse merger, renegotiate the contract, and go add those three schools. People are all acting like we are not in a fight for the 5th best position. Clearly we are. Nevarez even said it would be better to go to 16 teams, and I agree. We should use the momentum of reverse merging with WSU and OSU and fuel that momentum into expanding with 1-4 teams to the nearer East. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:19 AM, alum93 said: It's really hard for me to see any contract making it worthwhile to break up the AAC and MWC and join the P2. I just don't see the matchups or fan bases to justify it. Even Corvallis and Pullman are tiny markets relative to the big boys. Would they be a great fit for the MWC? Absolutely. But would they help bring in a huge jump in tv revenue from an ESPN, FOX, or whoever? I guess it just doesn't seem like it. All signs are pointing to a reverse merger with MWC for a solid regional conference and AAC adding Army at this point. Yes, that is correct but they just fell into our lap unexpectedly, we really had nothing to do with it except at the right place and time. All the schools involved with this merger should stand to benefit financially. If we are playing chess and not checkers then you always look at every angel possible and many moves ahead. When realignment hits close to home we need to know what adds value and what does not. Nobody wants to go backwards but forward and that's why schools make moves that seem crazy. Some schools will go backwards because they made the wrong move or didn't make a move when they could've. We all see the results now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingpotato Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 9:20 AM, Chalsean said: UTSA reminds me of BSU in the early days as far as exceptional growth. UTSA didn't sponsor football until 2012. So in 11 years they've gone from FCS to CUSA to AAC and now have an athletic budget that is on SJSU level. Just won their 2nd straight conference title. These guys are on a steep trajectory and it behooves us to invite them. San Antonio market. Already have a 36k football stadium. Learn from the mistakes of the P12, where no university was good enough for them. UTEP I get people dogging them. If they would commit to MWC level athletic funding I'd still like to see them in. Pretty much the only option out there that has a history with several MWC institutions. I'm all for adding UTSA, but I don't see the Boise comparison. They've had five losing seasons in 11 years and have never even won a bowl game and their opponents in those games were New Mexico, Louisiana, SDSU, and Troy. Boise has six losing seasons since 1950 with four of those seasons coming in a six year period in the 90s when they went through five different coaches because of some unfortunate circumstances. Also, the Alamodome is 65k and they average 26k in it... and that was for a top 25 team. They are more like UNLV with a little more football success. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alum93 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 11:27 AM, wolf from 73 said: Yes, that is correct but they just fell into our lap unexpectedly, we really had nothing to do with it except at the right place and time. All the schools involved with this merger should stand to benefit financially. If we are playing chess and not checkers then you always look at every angel possible and many moves ahead. When realignment hits close to home we need to know what adds value and what does not. Nobody wants to go backwards but forward and that's why schools make moves that seem crazy. The moves the big boys made can be justified because of the insane revenue involved. That ship has sailed and the power conferences are even farther away. There is no move the MWC or AAC can make that will get them closer to a BiG, B12, or SEC contract. I'm curious to see if the MWC truly chases a 16 or 18 team model. I don't think they will, mainly because i don't think there will be contracts that justify it. We'll see how it plays out. A strong MWC and a strong AAC (and the other three as well) seem like it would be better for G5 football overall, including fan enthusiasm. But maybe the little guys will keep chasing the same model that just destroyed the PAC and has schools like USC and UCLA playing oly sports in Michigan and Ohio. Sounds lovely, only with much smaller fan bases and less revenue to try and make it work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamSack Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 11:28 AM, kingpotato said: I'm all for adding UTSA, but I don't see the Boise comparison. They've had five losing seasons in 11 years and have never even won a bowl game and their opponents in those games were New Mexico, Louisiana, SDSU, and Troy. Boise has six losing seasons since 1950 with four of those seasons coming in a six year period in the 90s when they went through five different coaches because of some unfortunate circumstances. Also, the Alamodome is 65k and they average 26k in it... and that was for a top 25 team. They are more like UNLV with a little more football success. That attendance is better than what SDSU draws. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:09 AM, wolf from 73 said: Further expansion beyond the P2 will depend on the contract and value of adding anybody else. It will be dictated and directed by the media people and not presidents and conference commissioners. Although they hold the final vote to add they are not the mover behind conference expansion. Its all about the money. If they indicate that there would be added value to the contract if we added a couple or up to 4 schools in Texas guess what we would be doing. We would be talking to some Texas schools. Again you are looking at near term media deals where as I am looking at locking up the 5th playoff invite. Two totally different perspectives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:34 AM, alum93 said: The moves the big boys made can be justified because of the insane revenue involved. That ship has sailed and the power conferences are even farther away. There is no move the MWC or AAC can make that will get them closer to a BiG, B12, or SEC contract. I'm curious to see if the MWC truly chases a 16 or 18 team model. I don't think they will, mainly because i don't think there will be contracts that justify it. We'll see how it plays out. A strong MWC and a strong AAC (and the other three as well) seem like it would be better for G5 football overall, including fan enthusiasm. But maybe the little guys will keep chasing the same model that just destroyed the PAC and has schools like USC and UCLA playing oly sports in Michigan and Ohio. Sounds lovely, only with much smaller fan bases to try and make it work. The model the killed the P-12 was not expanding when they could've. The bigger paycheck for the B-10 is what enticed the departures. Of course we will never compete with or even try to compete with the P4 but if we can weaken our closest rival we should. They tried multiple times to kill us and will try again. We are at our strongest now and should go on the offensive as much as possible. We can solidify ourselves as the 5th best conference and will be rewarded financially and brand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:21 AM, RSF said: Last year. Always dangerous to judge such things on 1 year. And last year the top 3 were actually Tulane, Troy, and UTSA. The previous year Cincy, Houston and Louisiana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_season#Rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_season#Rankings Yes the Sun Belt, AAC and MAC would always be a threat. That is why you do the following: 1) have 3 groups of six so you always have 2 top contenders playing in conference final. 2) have minimums so if you have a bottom feeder not meeting standards they can be dropped and a threat to 5 added. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:39 AM, sactowndog said: Again you are looking at near term media deals where as I am looking at locking up the 5th playoff invite. Two totally different perspectives. I don't see where you get that from? I'm talking about both they can go hand in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:25 AM, SteedLaw said: Then we should do what it takes to finalize the reverse merger, renegotiate the contract, and go add those three schools. People are all acting like we are not in a fight for the 5th best position. Clearly we are. Nevarez even said it would be better to go to 16 teams, and I agree. We should use the momentum of reverse merging with WSU and OSU and fuel that momentum into expanding with 1-4 teams to the nearer East. I would say 1-4 Central Timezone teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:48 AM, wolf from 73 said: I don't see where you get that from? I'm talking about both they can go hand in hand. Yeah I was responding to your last post. Your body of posts is different. But if we have to sacrifice short term revenue to be the clear #5 we should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 It begins, expect lengthy litigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelAlliance Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 12:56 PM, wolf from 73 said: Smart move to prevent the outgoing teams from attempting to disband the conference next Spring and disburse all its assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 11:01 AM, RebelAlliance said: Smart move to prevent the outgoing teams from attempting to disband the conference next Spring and disburse all its assets. Agreed. I would expect the MW to draw-up a scheduling agreement with stipulations that the 2 conferences will fully merge once the court settles the complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 Oregon State, Washington State file complaint against Pac-12 https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38353933/oregon-state-washington-state-file-complaint-pac-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew_Poke Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 11:02 AM, sactowndog said: If the range fans are reflective of their Presidents I am slowly moving in SDSU’s camp we should pay whatever, leave with SDSU, UNLV, Boise, Hawaii, and maybe SDSU and form a best of the rest in the PAC-12 with more visionary aggressive schools. "Visionary" and "aggressive" in the context you're speaking means bad partners. Go ahead and chase that high, I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 11:01 AM, RebelAlliance said: Smart move to prevent the outgoing teams from attempting to disband the conference next Spring and disburse all its assets. "Pac-12 general counsel Scott Petersmeyer had indicated in an email that Wednesday's meeting, internally labeled a "Pac-12 Board Meeting," could include a vote." "The essence of Washington State and Oregon State's concerns are, if the league's 12 schools formally meet, that the current members could vote to dissolve or evenly distribute the remaining assets." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf from 73 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:56 AM, wolf from 73 said: It begins, expect lengthy litigation. "The legal filing offers some insight into the schools' potential interest in fighting to keep both the league's name and assets going forward. One option has always been to use the financial assets, infrastructure and strong brand of the Pac-12 as a lure to invite the 12 Mountain West schools into the league for some type of amicable merger." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...