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Conference Realignment thread

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1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Hey MWC fans.  North Texas fan here.
Wow!  296 pages!  That's impressive.   I'll do my part to help it get to 300.   I must admit though, I've only read the last 10 pages or so.  Please forgive me if one of my fellow alumni already came on here and said all of this!

Count me as one who is very hopeful my Alma Mater might join y'all in the MWC.   With the defections of Cincy, Houston & UCF from the AAC, y'all are no longer just competing with them as the best G5 conference... you're head & shoulders above, IMO.

Wanted to highlight utgrizfan's post here as I think he has some great info, and I hope I can supplement.

I think he's spot-on in his assessment of North Texas.   It really sucks that our football team has backslid over the past 2 seasons and all of this conference movement is happening right now.  Believe me, UNT fans are not happy about this and are loudly calling for our HC to be fired.  With Littrell making $2mil/yr, I would think there might be a lot of interest in the job if it came open.   Outside of football results on the gridiron, UNT has just about everything else going for us:  A Conference Champion basketball team that won a game in the NCAA Tourney this past year, very competitive Olympic Sports, Fantastic facilities, and as another poster pointed out, Academically, NT is a Carnegie Tier 1 Research University with a large enrollment (over 42,000 students!)  UNT is the flagship University of our own System.  We're not a Texas, A&M, or TX State system school.  Our athletics budget is 2nd in C-USA behind Old Dominion at over $40mil/yr.
Of course, a draw for you guys is getting back into Texas markets & strengthening your Texas recruiting opportunities (not that y'all aren't drawing from Texas already).  Our University President is former UNLV President Neal Smatresk, who hopefully still has some friends out West!

Looking at other nearby teams, here's kinda how they're perceived in Texas:
UTEP - Obviously they make sense geographically since they're already in the Mountain Time Zone... but I'm here to tell you they're a University of Texas System School that does not have the financial backing to really compete in the MWC.  Heck, they're barely treading water in C-USA.   Geography is the only thing going for these guys in regards to MWC membership.  I can't really see any other reason why the MWC would consider them.    El Paso is not a large market & is way too far away from the types of recruiting hotbeds you're looking for.  It would be an odd move to pick them up IMO.
UTSA - This is an Athletic Department in it's infancy.   They've been playing football for 10.5 seasons total.    Anything they bring to the table is purely potential.  San Antonio is a huge city, and is a very nice recruiting spot.   They just so happen to have hit on their latest football coach hire, and are doing great right now.   They rent the Alamodome and have very very poor facilities (to be expected for such a new, rapidly-built Athletics Department).   They're charging their students a huge Athletics fee, and are still having a hard time financing any of their facilities projects.   Nice potential, but again, a UT system school that does not have the financial backing to compete in the MWC (at least, not right now).  If they can somehow show an actionable plan (re: fundraising) to get their facilities up to MWC standards, they'd be a fine add.
TXSt. - Y'all.   No.   This school is universally recognized in Texas as a "party school".  Not serious about Academics, Arts or Athletics.   They'd bring nothing to the table for the MWC other than the Central Texas market/recruiting grounds, which you'd get with UTSA.  Stay away.
Rice - Everyone loves being associated with Rice academically (who wouldn't be?).  Houston is a huge city and a very fertile recruiting area.   This school has a GIGANTIC endowment, yet their Athletics Department budget lags behind just about every other school in Texas.   They're not serious about Athletics at all.  I'm not sure they'd even be interested in moving to the MWC, honestly.  I think them remaining parked in C-USA after all their old friends left to join the AAC proves my point.   If their leadership ever decided to reverse course and invest in their Athletics Department, they'd be a juggernaut.  I just don't see it happening.
Tulsa - This is a super-tiny school with a struggling Athletics budget (which shows up on the field/court/pitch/track/etc...) despite their AAC media payouts.   Oklahoma has some nice recruits though!   I really don't think they'd be able to cobble together/justify the AAC exit fees, which are extremely high.  They're likely riding with AAC no matter what.
SMU - NT fans friggin hate this school.  They're the antithesis to us in just about every way (haughty private school, trust fund kids, VS Public School, middle-class/Federal-aid kids).   That said, IMO, they'd be the best team for the MWC to go after.   If you liked TCU, you'll like SMU the same.   They have huge-money athletics boosters, located in the heart of Dallas (technically their own little town, University Park).  Obviously a great recruiting spot.   When they're really succeeding in athletics, people in DFW take notice.  Yet despite all of this, when North Texas goes down to Ford Field every other year to play them, our visitor section has more people than their home side.  Our crowd is their largest one every single season we play them there.  There's just not as much DFW interest in SMU as you'd think.
The dark horse/outlier school I think the MWC would be wise to consider (with UNT, of course) is: 
Louisiana Tech - There isn't a school I know of that does more with less than LATech.   LATech spent a while in the WAC, so I think they'd be OK to move West again if it meant elevating their Athletics Department hanging with y'all.   All of their teams are competitive.  Northern Louisiana is not quite the recruiting hotbed you'd want, but East Texas is nearby and there are some ballers out there in the Piney Woods!

UNT Facilities:
Apogee Stadium - built in 2011, a 32k-seat stadium built with the idea to be expanded later.
unt-stadium.jpg?w=600

UNT Coliseum (The Super Pit)  - An older facility, NT already has plans for a new B-ball arena to be built after our Athletic Center expansion project.  The renderings of this proposed arena reminds me a lot of UNM's Pit, which is very nice (saw NT beat the Lobos there back in 2018)!
SUPERPITEXT1.JPG?width=600&height=360&mo
UNT-Coliseum-Super-Pit-Interior-400x284.

Indoor Practice Facility - Completed in 2019.  One of the best IPF's in America.
636f48_52869fcb7f174d50bda0d23d1a8af8d2~

Welcome to the board Mean Green and an excellent presentation. From what I've heard your school is at the top of the list. 

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20 minutes ago, ViAggie said:

I wonder why the MWC didn't hold onto SMU and TCU in the first place after they bailed on the WAC and the Texas schools joined C-USA? Sure they eventually took TCU, who lasted for a hot minute, but why didn't they replace them with SMU if they are so desirable?

SMU's football program still hadn't recovered from the death penalty yet when the MWC formed (and they were still another decade away from their first bowl appearance since the scandal). Their basketball program hasn't had any real success since the 1960s, so they weren't going to pick up the slack either. They're a good school, but if the MWC wanted a "Vanderbilt," which is what SMU would have been at the time, they could have just picked Rice instead.

TCU was the victim of unlucky timing. They were terrible in football their first couple years in the WAC and started getting good immediately after the MWC had just formed without them.

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I would like to see UNT and UTSA added at this time and let them build their programs until the next go around. Then see who or if anybody leaves the MW or AAC. Depending on who, how many or if anybody leaves we can look at another round of adjustments at that time along with our new contract.

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2 minutes ago, wolf from 73 said:

I would like to see UNT and UTSA added at this time and let them build their programs until the next go around. Then see who or if anybody leaves the MW or AAC. Depending on who, how many or if anybody leaves we can look at another round of adjustments at that time along with our new contract.

I'm inclined to think that we should build while we are in a relatively good position at this time.    

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Ukrainian postage stamp honoring Snake Island soldiers

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1 hour ago, nvspuds said:

I think the presidents and the AD's do talk frequently..Thompson too..What might be the case, though, is a lack of consensus on how to proceed..

I would guess there are most likely a lot of moving parts at the moment. You have MWC presidents discussing the next move they might make, AAC presidents talking about the moves they have to make, and several schools caught in between talking with both of them as well as each other.

Right now it feels like both CT and Aresco are delivering the same message in different ways. CT is basically saying, "we have several schools just dying to join," and Aresco is saying, "we can take lesser known programs and elevate them." Both in effect trying to communicate from a position of power that they're adding 'lesser schools'.

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18 hours ago, Billings said:

Aresco continues his spin.  What a carnival barker. Aresco instead pointed to a new model. Instead of bringing in established schools, he believes the conference can survive by bringing in lesser schools and raising their profile once they are in the conference. 

Yeah, like UConn and ECU.

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18 hours ago, nvspuds said:

What would you like to see Thompson do?

It's wrong to say the Hairmeister never did anything positive for the MW. In 2005, he brought in TCU and created The Mtn network. Both were proactive events which greatly raised the visibility of the conference.

Since then the only positive things Thompson has done were reactive additions to the conference and none can be called much of an accomplishment because nobody else was offering those schools admission to their conference. Not only that but the unnecessary addition of SJSU mitigated the benefits achieved by those additions.

Although I know your opinion differs, the majority of folks who have been on this board for any length of time agree with me that Thompson should have been fired half a dozen years ago.

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1 hour ago, UTSAMarineVet09 said:

There is a lot of misconceptions that you threw out there. UTSA does not rent the Alamodome. Renting the Alamodome would suggest that we are paying to use it, which we are not. The City of San Antonio keeps concession and alcohol sales. UTSA keeps ticket sales.

The only facilities that need upgrading are our basketball arena, baseball and softball stadiums. They already have plans to upgrade our baseball and softball fields. In the meantime, the baseball team can go play at Wolfe Stadium, which currently does a couple of times a year when they will be expecting a large crowd.

San-Antonio-Missions-Overview-1-e1506483

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http://knrgarch.com/portfolio-item/utsa-baseball-and-softball-fields/

Track and field along with soccer plays at our Park West Campus, which broke ground in 2016. 

parkwest340.jpg

And cant forget about our new RACE facility that just opened up this year. 

https://goutsa.com/news/2021/8/4/athletics-utsa-opens-state-of-the-art-facility-to-promote-success-of-student-athletes.aspx

And being part of the UT system has nothing to do with funds, UNT's budget is currently $40mil, UTSA's is $32mil. 

Also, UTSA's annual athletic fee is less than of UNT's. 

Like I said, a lot of misconceptions that you are throwing out there. 

Hey MarineVet09!  I remember you from GoMeanGreen.com.  I shoulda known someone from UTSA would come on here & cut down what I was saying...

Sorry for the "renting" misnomer.  Whatever agreement you have with the city is working for y'all.  That's great!  The Alamodome would be getting no use otherwise.
Ideally though (and I think you guys have it in your eventual plans?), UTSA would be better served with an on-campus stadium. 
However, I think that's where the "misconceptions" end.
  
I didn't want to be specific about your b-ball gym, but yeah...
Is that baseball pic the Missions' place?  Y'all have a separate agreement with them, I suppose (not "renting").
The RACE facility is very nice!  I see it's not quite done though... when do you think y'all will have that practice field covered?
The difference between $40mil/yr and $32mil/yr in budget is pretty significant!   It would put NT at 8th in the MWC, but UTSA would be last (Over $2mil/yr less than SJSU)!  https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

And according to this link, y'all's Student Athletics fee is a flat $20/hr.  
NT charges $16.50/hr for traditional students, and only $10/hr if you're a smarty & can graduate on an accelerated program.  So, no, UTSA's is not less than UNT's.

Still, I love what y'all are putting together down there.  Keep it up!   
Definitely wouldn't mind y'all as a travel partner if we could join MWC together!    :cheers:

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1 hour ago, ViAggie said:

I wonder why the MWC didn't hold onto SMU and TCU in the first place after they bailed on the WAC and the Texas schools joined C-USA? Sure they eventually took TCU, who lasted for a hot minute, but why didn't they replace them with SMU if they are so desirable?  Adding UNT and SMU would be a good grab.  I'm with our UNT visitor, I hate private schools, all of them (and I send my youngest to a private HS, but that is a whole other issue), spoiled trust funders.    

I think it would be tough to justify taking 2 schools that are within 40 miles of each other, right?
UNT fans kinda see this as a WIN/win situation for us.
If we move to MWC, obviously a big WIN.  A much more stable conference with some kicka** competition!
If MWC were to snatch SMU instead, obviously the AAC would want to keep that DFW presence (they're HQ'd in DFW), so UNT would be a lock to join as SMU's replacement.   Anything is better than being stuck in C-USA with Commissioner Judy.  She's awful!

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2 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

@MeanGreenTexanDoes UTSA suffer somewhat in funding since they are a UT school and Austin doesn't want to give up resources and wants less competition in state (not that UTSA would truly be in competition with them)?

 

I'd defer the reasons why to my UTSA friend.   
IMO, I think it's because they're relatively new to D1/FBS Athletics.   Building up a donor base is going to take them some time.  I don't think they're completely reliant on the UT system to fund them.

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35 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

It's wrong to say the Hairmeister never did anything positive for the MW. In 2005, he brought in TCU and created The Mtn network. Both were proactive events which greatly raised the visibility of the conference.

Since then the only positive things Thompson has done were reactive additions to the conference and none can be called much of an accomplishment because nobody else was offering those schools admission to their conference. Not only that but the unnecessary addition of SJSU mitigated the benefits achieved by those additions.

Although I know your opinion differs, the majority of folks who have been on this board for any length of time agree with me that Thompson should have been fired half a dozen years ago.

I have no problem with firing Thompson..I am not sure he is the all powerful dictator you believe him to be..However, maybe a new person would have some new ideas..

I see the biggest problem as the dearth of schools in the Pst and Mst zones available..I also think the there has been a lot of turnover in the presidents..

My solution is to encourage the schools who are unhappy to leave and build back with schools who want to be here..

Like the WAC 10 before it, the current MWC just doesn't work all that well..

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:


TXSt. - Y'all.   No.   This school is universally recognized in Texas as a "party school".  Not serious about Academics, Arts or Athletics.   They'd bring nothing to the table for the MWC other than the Central Texas market/recruiting grounds, which you'd get with UTSA.  Stay away.
for a new B-ball arena to be built after our Athletic Center expansion project.  The renderings of this proposed arena reminds me a lot of UNM's Pit, which is very nice (saw NT beat the Lobos there back in 2018)!
 

I do like party schools more than art losers. But NT and UTSA sound fine.

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Interesting to hear a North Texas fan bag on Texas State's academics.  A pot/kettle situation.

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In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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48 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I think it would be tough to justify taking 2 schools that are within 40 miles of each other, right?
UNT fans kinda see this as a WIN/win situation for us.
If we move to MWC, obviously a big WIN.  A much more stable conference with some kicka** competition!
If MWC were to snatch SMU instead, obviously the AAC would want to keep that DFW presence (they're HQ'd in DFW), so UNT would be a lock to join as SMU's replacement.   Anything is better than being stuck in C-USA with Commissioner Judy.  She's awful!

The MW needs at most one school from Texas and now having discovered that you guys are not only like SDSU in being a giant public university but in another way as well, I'm pullin' for ya:

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Were the MW to add schools at this time would this change the minds of the schools who want to leave?  My guess is no..

If the MW just rolled with the members they have now, would this change the mind of the schools who want to leave..my guess is no.

If the conference contracted, would that change the mind of the schools who want to leave..Gotta go with no

If Thompson were fired this afternoon, would that change the mind of the schools who want to leave...not bloody likely..

The MW has lots of schools who just don't want to be in this conference..

I like the MW and I am not looking to see it shredded but I am not sure how many schools feel the same way..

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Looks like a UNT Homer is throwing shade. Who cares if a school is known as a party school? Plus that's an old image from the 90s. What is UNT known for.....::crickets:: I guess the music program. Having lived in DFW 18 years I can say they aren't even a blip on the radar. They have improved facilities lately but they don't get support.  It they are the best option in that part of the state so I see them as a viable option. UTSA is a concrete commuter school with a nice football stadium the city handed them. Without having to spend on a foot all stadium they have still refused to spend on other facilities and most 3A high schools have better basketball, softball, and baseball facilities.

TXST has sucked at football but then again it's not like the other two are blowing anyone's socks off. UTSA looks better this year for now. We have a recently renovated (2012) football stadium, basketball arena (2018 or 2019), and baseball/softball (in the last 15 years). Additional renovations are planned to upgrade the end zone complex as funding is raised.

Not sure why UNT is trying to brag about academics. None of the schools are viewed as anything other than fallback schools. 

All that said, I doubt TXST gets an invite. UNT and UTSA make more sense and TXST is happy in the SBC. I wouldn't mind joining but also not desperate to get out a conference that appears to be imploding. 

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3 minutes ago, nvspuds said:

Now we have done it..We have Texas schools coming to the MW board to bad mouth each other..At least the dudes from NDSU just rip on MW schools..

CT has made public statements that we are looking to get into Texas and that a number of schools have made a case for joining the Conference. It would seem that fans of these schools would inform us about their schools strengths as additions and can't resist a shot at their competition. You do what you gotta do to win the prize.

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I wouldn't mind the Texas Twins getting back together with the old WAC gang. We've ayer Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming as well. Wyoming games in San Marcos were a lot of fun and the Cowboys brought a great crowd. We recently played at UNLV and Air Force in basketball. So there is some recent history with a lot of the teams. Selfishly I'd enjoy more trips to Colorado and San Diego in my life.

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3 hours ago, ViAggie said:

I wonder why the MWC didn't hold onto SMU and TCU in the first place after they bailed on the WAC and the Texas schools joined C-USA? Sure they eventually took TCU, who lasted for a hot minute, but why didn't they replace them with SMU if they are so desirable?  Adding UNT and SMU would be a good grab.  I'm with our UNT visitor, I hate private schools, all of them (and I send my youngest to a private HS, but that is a whole other issue), spoiled trust funders.    

THE MWC had to leave at least 8 teams in the WAC so it was a functioning conference or face a nasty lawsuit.  It was a legal decision and staying with old rivalries for the most part in choosing the 8 original members.  SMU later had no interest to join the MWC or go west a second time as I remember it.

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