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halfmanhalfbronco

Frito-Lay strike.

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1 hour ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

I bet you miss the good ole days when men were men and the secretaries were terrified.  IF they did not want their bosses boner pressing up against them all the time they should just walk out the door.

LOL

Whatever.
 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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8 minutes ago, Maji said:

It's not that simple. Better job opportunities in the area are likely limited (for workers of that skillset), and moving is expensive and difficult -- particularly in this housing market.

The world is full of challenges. Nobody said it was simple,or easy. If you want simple and easy, you settle for what you get.  There's nothing wrong with that philosophy of life, just don't expect people to view you as some sort of victim.

 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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10 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

LOL

Whatever.
 

Same.  Exact.  Logic.

An abusive work environment is an abusive work environment.  A boss hinting to the secretary she should sleep with him before her performance review is not OK just because she can "walk out the door".  Mandatory suicide shifts in a 115 degree warehouse is not OK just because you can "walk out the door".

 

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14 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Probably. But nothing wrong with Mirror Pond. It's dated now, for sure, but it was a helluva a beer back in the day.

it was enemy #1 in college. 
ah yes finally a nice ale that isn't an ipa

takes a sip

GODDAMNIT THEY STARTED JUST CALLING THEM PALE ALES NOW!?!?

 

as opposed to

ah yes an IPA. I may not survive

takes a sip

oh, this is just a golden ale with slightly more citrusy notes than usual. delightful!

6 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

The world is full of challenges. Nobody said it was simple,or easy. If you want simple and easy, you settle for what you get.  There's nothing wrong with that philosophy of life, just don't expect people to view you as some sort of victim.

 

wait so you're mad at workers striking to get a better life, but also don't settle for simple and easy?

what point do you even think you have dude?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 hour ago, Bob said:

Avg household income is a better metric because it's more indicative an average person's wealth, not minimum wage.

.

bob do you not understand that people who make less than the average are also still americans and part of the economy?

1 hour ago, Bob said:

 

So, when you use household income it's not as bad? ok. I never said there wasn't a problem with workers seeing their wealth decline, but it's not as bad as what you portrayed

it is literally exactly as bad as I portrayed because all I did was post facts with zero analysis or coloring lmfao

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Just now, Bob said:

Do you understand that not everyone makes minimum wage? geezus

Of course! But why would I be pointing out the difficulty of the median wage earner? 40 years ago a single income minimum wage house could conceivably buy a house and could definitely afford an apartment in most of the country (not even most by area - most by population). that isn't true today. It's canary in the coal mine stuff except instead of a canary it's just a dude who wheezes a little more than the other miners. 

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2 hours ago, happycamper said:

What are you talking about? Workers are using the ones producing, using the technology. Hell, workers are the ones making the technology. 

Again, why would people not be pissed at having a worse standard of living with a pretty clear trendline? You seem to have a very "I got mine so +++++ the rest" attitude here which, I kind of get, but is also historically a great way to get a lot shittier country in 50-100 years. Killing our massive domestic demand because it's guud that rich get rich lawl seems reminiscent of a certain aesop's fable. 

Workers aren't producing the technology, they're users. The technology is designed by engineers and implemented by management, neither of which would be considered  a "typical employee". And in most cases, the typical employee is hesitant to embrace new technology that, with each step forward, moves towards eliminating the jobs of "typical employees". 

I don't have a "I got mine, so +++++ the rest" attitude...I have the attitude that I'm entitled to nothing and that any success that I (actually, anyone) achieve is by hard work (education or otherwise), positioning myself so that I'm ready when opportunities present themselves and some degree of luck. The pie is bigger, for sure, but I don't have any entitlement to any of it, but I do have the opportunity to chase a big piece of it. You, on the other hand, seem to have the attitude that people are entitled to a share of the pie that is equal or greater to the share that their fathers had for no reason other than we're the next generation. And you seem to be confusing standard with living with how big of a piece of the pie we all have. I don't believe that the average standard of living today is lower than it was a generation ago. 

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Just now, Bob said:

I agree that there is a wage problem. The only thing that will fix it is to bring manufacturing back to the USA through nationalist policies.

I disagree.

First, it isn't *just* a wage problem. It's a cost problem too. Lots of stuff is now reachable for minimum wage earners that weren't at all in the '80s - say, giant color TVs are 200 bucks and cell phones are what, 80 for a flip phone? but housing is a necessity. 

Second, I don't really think that bringing in manufacturing will help lower wages. Manufacturing had had higher earnings often by union efforts more than anything. That isn't there any more. 

Anyway back to the cost problem, because it's #1 in my argument the same way Alabama was the title favorite last year. That is a thorny ass problem. Housing is expensive for just so damn many reasons. First materials are more expensive. Second, people are buying much larger houses, so the supply of affordable houses is slowly eroding away. Third, government regulations are accidentally designed to prevent affordable housing construction. They all make sense individually. Sure, more setbacks for houses. Sure, more fire protection. Sure, higher live and snow loads. Sure, zone commercial vs residential. But... the cumulative effect means it isn't cost-effective to build the little 2 bed, 750 square foot houses that dot Laramie. People don't (and often can't) build mother in law houses in their backyards for renters that can eventually be subdivided when housing rates skyrocket. I mean, yeah, that means the average quality of houses is higher. But... no house is a mess. Then we get on to a lack of skilled workers - not just carpenters and concrete workers but up to designers and drafters in areas that require them, in government who can actually review building applications... it's a disaster. Then you get on to an economy that concentrates professional jobs only into the large urban agglomerations so everyone is competing against each other in limited areas....

goddamn now I'm all depressed

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Just now, Slapdad said:

Workers aren't producing the technology, they're users. The technology is designed by engineers and implemented by management, neither of which would be considered  a "typical employee". And in most cases, the typical employee is hesitant to embrace new technology that, with each step forward, moves towards eliminating the jobs of "typical employees". 

I don't have a "I got mine, so +++++ the rest" attitude...I have the attitude that I'm entitled to nothing and that any success that I (actually, anyone) achieve is by hard work (education or otherwise), positioning myself so that I'm ready when opportunities present themselves and some degree of luck. The pie is bigger, for sure, but I don't have any entitlement to any of it, but I do have the opportunity to chase a big piece of it. You, on the other hand, seem to have the attitude that people are entitled to a share of the pie that is equal or greater to the share that their fathers had for no reason other than we're the next generation. And you seem to be confusing standard with living with how big of a piece of the pie we all have. I don't believe that the average standard of living today is lower than it was a generation ago. 

but you are literally acting entitled to not have to deal with what other workers deal with lol

and we have both less of a standard of living AND less of the overall pie.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Just now, happycamper said:

but you are literally acting entitled to not have to deal with what other workers deal with lol

and we have both less of a standard of living AND less of the overall pie.

I am literally not. In no way do I feel entitled to anything. I know that everything I have, I've worked for and everything that I want I have to continue to work for, as I clearly said in my previous post. That is the antithesis of the word "entitled". 

Our standard of living today is better than it was a generation ago and that is reflected in most studies conducted by researchers who are worth their salt. People having a smaller piece of a much larger pie has zero effect on those people. A bigger pie doesn't come at an expense of others, it just means more for those with a bigger piece. Anyone complaining about not having the same percentage of a larger pie as their parents had a smaller pie are spending too much time crying about what they think should be given to them instead of working to get that bigger piece. Why makes you think that you should be handed a bigger piece of a pie that others were more responsible for baking? 

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41 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Same.  Exact.  Logic.

An abusive work environment is an abusive work environment.  A boss hinting to the secretary she should sleep with him before her performance review is not OK just because she can "walk out the door".  Mandatory suicide shifts in a 115 degree warehouse is not OK just because you can "walk out the door".

 

Sure.

just remember there is likely two sides to this specific story.

in regards to an ealrlier post you made about a millinial backlash against the wealthy due to housing costs and so on. I think that is a legit concern, but I doubt it pertains to this strike.  First I doubt most of the workers are young people, and Kansas has cheap housing.

im just saying be careful before you get wrapped up in Robin Hood shit

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3 minutes ago, Slapdad said:

I am literally not. In no way do I feel entitled to anything. I know that everything I have, I've worked for and everything that I want I have to continue to work for, as I clearly said in my previous post. That is the antithesis of the word "entitled". 

Our standard of living today is better than it was a generation ago and that is reflected in most studies conducted by researchers who are worth their salt. People having a smaller piece of a much larger pie has zero effect on those people. A bigger pie doesn't come at an expense of others, it just means more for those with a bigger piece. Anyone complaining about not having the same percentage of a larger pie as their parents had a smaller pie are spending too much time crying about what they think should be given to them instead of working to get that bigger piece. Why makes you think that you should be handed a bigger piece of a pie that others were more responsible for baking? 

Lol people have to pay a larger share of their income for food, housing, education, and medical care.

Who cares if consumer electronics is 1000 times cheaper? We literally do not have enough houses

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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2 minutes ago, CPslograd said:

Sure.

just remember there is likely two sides to this specific story.

in regards to an ealrlier post you made about a millinial backlash against the wealthy due to housing costs and so on. I think that is a legit concern, but I doubt it pertains to this strike.  First I doubt most of the workers are young people, and Kansas has cheap housing.

im just saying be careful before you get wrapped up in Robin Hood shit

 

Fair.  Always two sides.  IF the allegations are true it, it's bad.  SDSUfan seems to think that even if all allegations are true, it's whatever, because they can just walk out the door.  I disagree.

 

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

it was enemy #1 in college. 
ah yes finally a nice ale that isn't an ipa

takes a sip

GODDAMNIT THEY STARTED JUST CALLING THEM PALE ALES NOW!?!?

 

as opposed to

ah yes an IPA. I may not survive

takes a sip

oh, this is just a golden ale with slightly more citrusy notes than usual. delightful!

Mirror Pond is not an IPA, though. It's a 5% ABV pale with a balanced 40 IBUs. Very much a pale, as opposed to that "light" citrusy IPA that is probably 6.5% with 60 IBUs or more. (Mirror Pond has also been around since the late 1980s). I was no different in college than you. I thought Sierra Nevada Pale Ale tasted like pine trees (still do really), and I couldn't believe people actually drank it. By the time I first had a Mirror Pond, though, my tastes had changed.

I will say, the move to juicier IPAs with all those citrusy notes, rather than the earlier piney iterations of IPAs and american pales, has been excellent. I do not disagree. This isn't because they are lighter, though, like a golden ale. It's because brewers are using different kinds of hops (hurray citra hops!) than the Cascade hops-heavy IPAs of the past. Also, of note, the hop that is the backbone of Sierra Nevada and  Mirror Pond? Cascade hops. That's the reason you don't like Mirror Pond. The natural bitterness of the cascade hop, coupled with the crystal malt. More bitter than Bob at a vaccination clinic.

Sorry, beer geek rant now over.

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

oh, this is just a golden ale with slightly more citrusy notes than usual. delightful!

wait so you're mad at workers striking to get a better life, but also don't settle for simple and easy?

what point do you even think you have dude?

His point is to rage at people he views as beneath him.

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1 hour ago, NVGiant said:

Mirror Pond is not an IPA, though. It's a 5% ABV pale with a balanced 40 IBUs. Very much a pale, as opposed to that "light" citrusy IPA that is probably 6.5% with 60 IBUs or more. (Mirror Pond has also been around since the late 1980s). I was no different in college than you. I thought Sierra Nevada Pale Ale tasted like pine trees (still do really), and I couldn't believe people actually drank it. By the time I first had a Mirror Pond, though, my tastes had changed.

I will say, the move to juicier IPAs with all those citrusy notes, rather than the earlier piney iterations of IPAs and american pales, has been excellent. I do not disagree. This isn't because they are lighter, though, like a golden ale. It's because brewers are using different kinds of hops (hurray citra hops!) than the Cascade hops-heavy IPAs of the past. Also, of note, the hop that is the backbone of Sierra Nevada and  Mirror Pond? Cascade hops. That's the reason you don't like Mirror Pond. The natural bitterness of the cascade hop, coupled with the crystal malt. More bitter than Bob at a vaccination clinic.

Sorry, beer geek rant now over.

ugh i remember it tasting like crappy gin and as bitter as 90 minute IPA without the malt to balance it. That old school IPA had to be a barleywine to be a truly good beer. 

just like @Brew_Poke the older I get the maltier I love. unlike him, I prefer german style beers. gimme them nice banana esters, maybe some doppelbock. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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2 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Same.  Exact.  Logic.

An abusive work environment is an abusive work environment.  A boss hinting to the secretary she should sleep with him before her performance review is not OK just because she can "walk out the door".  Mandatory suicide shifts in a 115 degree warehouse is not OK just because you can "walk out the door".

 

"suicide" shifts are perfectly OK as long as you can walk out the door.  You just buy this crap hook, line and sinker.  115degrees! SUICIDE SHIFTS! Dogs and Cats Living together!

No wonder you're a lefty.

LOL

dogs-and-cats-living-together.gif

 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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21 minutes ago, happycamper said:

ugh i remember it tasting like crappy gin and as bitter as 90 minute IPA without the malt to balance it. That old school IPA had to be a barleywine to be a truly good beer. 

just like @Brew_Poke the older I get the maltier I love. unlike him, I prefer german style beers. gimme them nice banana esters, maybe some doppelbock. 

I like some of those old Northwest IPAs, though the hop bombs of the late 2000s and early 2010s were pretty ridiculous. And I enjoy a nice balanced pale, too. I consider Mirror Pond pretty balanced, but there are more interesting options than a single-hopped Cascade pale out there these days. 

My beer tastes change by the season. Summer, I like lighter styles. Fall I geek out on the fresh hopped beers of just about any style, and winter I prefer heavier, maltier styles. Spring is when I lean into IPAs. Speaking of malty and old-school Deschutes beers, I still enjoy a Black Butte Porter when the mood strikes. I would also like to see more brown ales, but a lot of brewers have sort of abandoned the style.

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1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

I like some of those old Northwest IPAs, though the hop bombs of the late 2000s and early 2010s were pretty ridiculous. And I enjoy a nice balanced pale, too. I consider Mirror Pond pretty balanced, but there are more interesting options than a single-hopped Cascade pale out there these days. 

My beer tastes change by the season. Summer, I like lighter styles. Fall I geek out on the fresh hopped beers of just about any style, and winter I prefer heavier, maltier styles. Spring is when I lean into IPAs. Speaking of malty and old-school Deschutes beers, I still enjoy a Black Butte Porter when the mood strikes. I would also like to see more brown ales, but a lot of brewers have sort of abandoned the style.

heh you sound like me. Right now my go to is surprisngly the Kona 4-pack from Costco. all fantastic summer beers, nice body, super sessionable. I often also like true pilsners and hefs in the summer but Wenatchee is kind of a beer wasteland. Fall is about candy for me - I love marzen style beer all year around, but fall it hits right. I gotta agree about brown ales. Great Divide (I think) made a wonderful brown that they discontinued. I think anchor still makes a single malt single hop brown that I enjoy when I can find it. I go hoppier in the winter too, my archetypal winter beer is Elysian Bifrost. man that beer is great. Spring is about the only season I can do IPAs, so similar here. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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2 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Mirror Pond is not an IPA, though. It's a 5% ABV pale with a balanced 40 IBUs. Very much a pale, as opposed to that "light" citrusy IPA that is probably 6.5% with 60 IBUs or more. (Mirror Pond has also been around since the late 1980s). I was no different in college than you. I thought Sierra Nevada Pale Ale tasted like pine trees (still do really), and I couldn't believe people actually drank it. By the time I first had a Mirror Pond, though, my tastes had changed.

I will say, the move to juicier IPAs with all those citrusy notes, rather than the earlier piney iterations of IPAs and american pales, has been excellent. I do not disagree. This isn't because they are lighter, though, like a golden ale. It's because brewers are using different kinds of hops (hurray citra hops!) than the Cascade hops-heavy IPAs of the past. Also, of note, the hop that is the backbone of Sierra Nevada and  Mirror Pond? Cascade hops. That's the reason you don't like Mirror Pond. The natural bitterness of the cascade hop, coupled with the crystal malt. More bitter than Bob at a vaccination clinic.

Sorry, beer geek rant now over.

 

49 minutes ago, happycamper said:

ugh i remember it tasting like crappy gin and as bitter as 90 minute IPA without the malt to balance it. That old school IPA had to be a barleywine to be a truly good beer. 

just like @Brew_Poke the older I get the maltier I love. unlike him, I prefer german style beers. gimme them nice banana esters, maybe some doppelbock. 

 

14 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

I like some of those old Northwest IPAs, though the hop bombs of the late 2000s and early 2010s were pretty ridiculous. And I enjoy a nice balanced pale, too. I consider Mirror Pond pretty balanced, but there are more interesting options than a single-hopped Cascade pale out there these days. 

My beer tastes change by the season. Summer, I like lighter styles. Fall I geek out on the fresh hopped beers of just about any style, and winter I prefer heavier, maltier styles. Spring is when I lean into IPAs. Speaking of malty and old-school Deschutes beers, I still enjoy a Black Butte Porter when the mood strikes. I would also like to see more brown ales, but a lot of brewers have sort of abandoned the style.

 

10 minutes ago, happycamper said:

heh you sound like me. Right now my go to is surprisngly the Kona 4-pack from Costco. all fantastic summer beers, nice body, super sessionable. I often also like true pilsners and hefs in the summer but Wenatchee is kind of a beer wasteland. Fall is about candy for me - I love marzen style beer all year around, but fall it hits right. I gotta agree about brown ales. Great Divide (I think) made a wonderful brown that they discontinued. I think anchor still makes a single malt single hop brown that I enjoy when I can find it. I go hoppier in the winter too, my archetypal winter beer is Elysian Bifrost. man that beer is great. Spring is about the only season I can do IPAs, so similar here. 

You are fake news.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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